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  1. #97
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Playing along...

    Yes, sir, but have you not also read in the Torah where this very same God, the God of Abraham, told his people that they would be expelled from the land if they did not obey his commandements? And have you not read, my good man, in the books of the Writings and the Prophets how God's people continuously defied him? And did you not also read, my dear fellow, how these very same people were exiled from that land, where they were to remain in exile until their repentance, which, my dear Christian, would require their acceptance of Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah, as you know?

  2. #98
    umdkook Guest

    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    umdkook,

    But US financial, military, and diplomatic support for the Israeli policy of illegal occupation is real.

    But let's assume the US gave Russia financial aid. Let's assume the US gave or sold Russia military equipment. Let's assume the US supported Russia diplomatically. And let's assume this was all done with full knowledge that these actios on the part of the US would allow and encourage Russia to commit human rights abuses/violations of international law.

    If such were the case, absolutely the US would be putting the stick in the hand of the bully. And as you yourself just acknowledged:

    "You've got to be shutting your eyes pretty tightly to argue that you can't see what happens to the weak kids on the playground after you give the bully that stick. That's the epitome of ignorance."

    So now it seems, you're willing to condemn hypothetical US support for Russian abuses, while refusing to do the same for very real US support for very real abuses.

    That's the epitome of hypocrisy.

    point out where i ever said i dont condemn US support for Israeli abuses.

    this whole thing has been about you saying they support the occupation, I have been saying that just because the US gives them money and equipment, doesnt mean they support whatever goes on with those resources.

    you and others say the occupation couldnt happen without US support, hence the past 60 posts on this thread.

  3. #99
    umdkook Guest

    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Playing along...

    Yes, sir, but have you not also read in the Torah where this very same God, the God of Abraham, told his people that they would be expelled from the land if they did not obey his commandements? And have you not read, my good man, in the books of the Writings and the Prophets how God's people continuously defied him? And did you not also read, my dear fellow, how these very same people were exiled from that land, where they were to remain in exile until their repentance, which, my dear Christian, would require their acceptance of Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah, as you know?

    HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHH.

    so teh jews of Israel dont deserve the land because they are not Christian???


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    you can say youre "playing along" all you want, but that is highly doubtful.

  4. #100
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    point out where i ever said i dont condemn US support for Israeli abuses.
    Oh, you most certainly have never said you don't condemn US support for Israeli abuses. For that to be possible, you would have to have acknowledged US support for Israeli abuses, which is the thing you are in denial of.

    this whole thing has been about you saying they support the occupation, I have been saying that just because the US gives them money and equipment, doesnt mean they support whatever goes on with those resources.
    That's idiotic. When you put a stick in the hand of the playground bully and he beats people with it, and then say, "Golly, I didn't know he would beat people with it", that's one thing. But when you continue each day to put the stick in his hand and continue making this argument that you don't know what's going to happen, it just becomes idiotic.

    you and others say the occupation couldnt happen without US support
    That's correct. Without US financial, military, and diplomatic support, the illegal Israeli occupation and other abuses could not continue.

    so teh jews of Israel dont deserve the land because they are not Christian???
    No person of any race or religion "deserves" land that is not theirs. That is all I've said.

  5. #101
    umdkook Guest

    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    how can you say this on this thread, and completely say the opposite on teh Russia thread. you make no sense!!!

  6. #102
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Playing along...

    Yes, sir, but have you not also read in the Torah where this very same God, the God of Abraham, told his people that they would be expelled from the land if they did not obey his commandements? And have you not read, my good man, in the books of the Writings and the Prophets how God's people continuously defied him? And did you not also read, my dear fellow, how these very same people were exiled from that land, where they were to remain in exile until their repentance, which, my dear Christian, would require their acceptance of Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah, as you know?
    Hmmm... Yes, quite right, right as rain. However, dotdotdot, even though the Israelites did stray from their father (who smited both Soddom and Gamorah for continuously raping men... women ok, but not men) they came back to the lord their father whenever HE turned up the heat. I do believe it happened at least 10 times that the A.D.D. (attention deficit) Jews lost their way and their faith but they came back each time.

    Now, even though the Israelites might not have followed through with chapter 4, subparagraph iii, where they were to "remain in exile until their repentance, which, would require their acceptance of Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah" I do believe the newww Jews (or Christians), my good sir, did accept Jesus as Maschiach, or ... the Mesiah. And claimed that they were more Orthodox than the Old School Hard Liners themselves, hence ... which is what the Born Again's are doing by supporting our little Israelite friends. Christians helping Jews get their "God Given" land back. Do not forget, my esteemed colleague, that as Christianity moved out of the Jewish womb in which it was born and into the Greek-speaking Mediterranean world, "Messiah" was deemphasized and the Greek equivalent, "Christos" (which was transliterated into the word "Christ", replaced it.

    My good sir, the Writings of the Prophets, chapter 4, subparagraph iii, have come to life this glorious day and age as Mr. Bush is gallantly leading our Glorious country into our second Crusades!! We are simply fulfilling professy in helping our little brown Israeli friends win back what the Lord up High promised Sir Abram long long ago.

    I ask you to remember what Bob, 215th son of Abraham, said on the battle in the land of Cannan, "Cannanites? We don need no stinking Cannanites!"

    Hear Hear!! Long live the King!
    Last edited by BatarngForce; 03-17-2006 at 08:27 AM.

  7. #103
    umdkook Guest

    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    No person of any race or religion "deserves" land that is not theirs. That is all I've said.
    well actually no, you didnt say that. you said the jews could not go back until they repented, or accepted Jesus" which means be christian (isnt that what it is to be christian, accept Jesus as your savior?)---

    i know you two are just talking about the bible, therefore nothing real, but just pointing out that you said jews of the bible dont deserve israel because they havent accepted jesus.

    what is interesting though is that in the UN's "creation" of Israel you do not agree with, but in the UN's 64 or so resolutions against Isreal's Palestinian rights violations you do agree with.

  8. #104
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by umdkook
    how can you say this on this thread, and completely say the opposite on teh Russia thread. you make no sense!!!
    I've been entirely consistent.

  9. #105
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    BatarngForce,

    Yes, my dear fellow, the Jews, as well as the other Israelites, were forgiven time and time again after a time of repentance, only to be followed again by the cycle of disobedience.

    But there is a further point to be made, good sir, that the "Israel" of the Scriptures is a theocratic nation under the laws of God, not a secular nation governed in large part by so-called non-practicing Jews.

    The point is that you can call your dog "Duck" but it won't make him quack.

    Moreover, my good man, even a precursory reading of the New Testament reveals that being a part of "Israel" means more than living within certain physical borders of a nation-state. One may read quite explicitly in the writings of Paul, for instance, that there are "Jews" who are not part of Israel for rejection of the Messiah, and, therefore, rejection of God, while there are gentiles who are "grafted in" to the body of Israel for their faith.

    Which is to say, my dear chap, that "Israel" as it applies to people of the faith is a spiritual state. While it may also have been intended to be a physical one, one cannot just go around declaring just any state "Israel" and expect the claim to be taken seriously.

    That dog just won't quack no matter how many times you call him "Duck".

    I'm sure my gracious colleague would be willing to defer on at least that point.

  10. #106
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    well actually no, you didnt say that.
    Not in those words, no. But that was the point nontheless, that no person "deserves" land that is not theirs. I did not say "jews of the bible don't deserve Israel because they haven't accepted Jesus". They don't "deserve" territory that is not theirs. That is what I said, in so many words.

    To further that point, I merely noted that the territories illegally occupied by Israel does not belong to the Jews, neither by man's laws nor God's.

    You are correct to say I don't aggree with the UN's "creation" of Israel. It was a patently unequitable arrangement that completely ignored the interests of and violated the rights of the local residents of Palestine.

    You are also correct to say I agree with the UN's many resolutions condemning Israel for violating international law and/or human rights abuses.

    I don't know why that should be "interesting", but very well. I'm glad my positions are of interest to you.

  11. #107
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    BatarngForce,

    Yes, my dear fellow, the Jews, as well as the other Israelites, were forgiven time and time again after a time of repentance, only to be followed again by the cycle of disobedience.

    But there is a further point to be made, good sir, that the "Israel" of the Scriptures is a theocratic nation under the laws of God, not a secular nation governed in large part by so-called non-practicing Jews.
    Hmmmm
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    The point is that you can call your dog "Duck" but it won't make him quack.
    Fricken dog!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Moreover, my good man, even a precursory reading of the New Testament reveals that being a part of "Israel" means more than living within certain physical borders of a nation-state. One may read quite explicitly in the writings of Paul, for instance, that there are "Jews" who are not part of Israel for rejection of the Messiah, and, therefore, rejection of God, while there are gentiles who are "grafted in" to the body of Israel for their faith.

    Which is to say, my dear chap, that "Israel" as it applies to people of the faith is a spiritual state. While it may also have been intended to be a physical one, one cannot just go around declaring just any state "Israel" and expect the claim to be taken seriously..
    But.. but Abraham! What about uncle Abraham! He said he PERSONALLY talked to God and god expedited the Escrow process and signed the title and deed of the land over the Abe and his people. God gaaaaave the land, gaaaave the land to him. Heck, I'm missing an inch of my penis as proof of the bargain [see definition of covenant]. See.....{*Flashing*}... [Lady Mod, turn head]!

    This just doesn't make sense, no sense whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    That dog just won't quack no matter how many times you call him "Duck". I'm sure my gracious colleague would be willing to defer on at least that point.
    Fricken dog!

    I seem to be out of Biblical Cliff notes. I defer to your better wisdom and coloqialis....coloqueal... coloq.. your witty words!

  12. #108
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by BatarngForce
    Hmmmm

    Fricken dog!

    But.. but Abraham! What about uncle Abraham! He said he PERSONALLY talked to God and god expedited the Escrow process and signed the title and deed of the land over the Abe and his people. God gaaaaave the land, gaaaave the land to him. Heck, I'm missing an inch of my penis as proof of the bargain [see definition of covenant]. See.....{*Flashing*}... [Lady Mod, turn head]!

    This just doesn't make sense, no sense whatsoever.


    Fricken dog!

    I seem to be out of Biblical Cliff notes. I defer to your better wisdom and coloqialis....coloqueal... coloq.. your witty words!
    Ha! This is getting good :D

  13. #109
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    Re: members who dont approve of Israel

    That was most entertaining indeed.

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