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  1. #1

    Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    undefined
    Your help is needed! The Direct Selling Assn, which has been virtually taken over by the MLM industry and is promoting legislation that essentially nullifies laws against pyramid schemes, is pushing SB 182 through the Utah Senate.

    In essence, SB 182 says that if your primary customers are your recruits, that's OK. No need for real customers. Even though law enforcement seldom goes after product-based pyramid schemes, the present law allows for people to take private action, either in class actions or in Small Claims Courts. This amendment to the law will take that right away from them. This type of legislative initiative is being promoted in other states as well.

    PLEASE paste the addresses below in an e-mail address line and include a strong subject line that says something like:
    PLEASE vote "no" to SB 182.
    or - Don't be duped by the DSA. Vote "no" to SB 182.
    etc.
    You could write a sentence or two telling the Senators you hope they will stand firm in opposing any DSA-initiated legislation. They only help the MLM pyramid fraud promoters and hurt consumers and legitimate business. Thanks.

    Jon Taylor, Ph.D. President, Consumer Awareness Institute
    Visit our web site for extensive research and guides to help consumers -
    www.mlm-thetruth.com

    Below is the e-mail list to pase in the address line of your e-mail:


    [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
    Last edited by CAI-jtaylor; 02-07-2006 at 04:20 AM. Reason: one error

  2. #2
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    871

    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Your missinformed essay and flawed system of rating MLM's has no one fooled. I don't think you'll find that much support here Taylor...maybe synik, but then again that goes to show you the caliber of people you attract.

  3. #3
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cscirpoli
    Your missinformed essay and flawed system of rating MLM's has no one fooled. I don't think you'll find that much support here Taylor...maybe synik, but then again that goes to show you the caliber of people you attract.
    I'm not familiar with Taylor. Perhaps you'd like to share with us why you think his system of rating MLMs is flawed?

  4. #4
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    what if we all just voted yes instead? Be careful where you ask for help.

  5. #5
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Now wiat just a minute here. Waht are you trying to pull over on us? I am just reading through sb 182 and it sure sounds like this is a good law. It is cracking down on being able to claim products you purchase for your own consumption as good sold. The makes it so you can not inventory load, its makes it class b misdemeanor to particiapte in a program that pays to recruit other members. I think you better re read and think again about what you are syaing here.

  6. #6
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    here is the entire bill read it for yourself:

    UTAH STATE LEGISLATURE Home | Site Map | Calendar | Code/Constitution | House | Senate | Search

    Download Zipped Introduced WordPerfect SB0182.ZIP
    [Status][Bill Documents][Fiscal Note][Bills Directory]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    S.B. 182
    1

    DIRECT SALES AMENDMENTS

    2
    2006 GENERAL SESSION

    3
    STATE OF UTAH

    4
    Chief Sponsor: Mark B. Madsen

    5
    House Sponsor: ____________

    6 Cosponsors:
    7 Curtis S. Bramble
    8 Allen M. Christensen
    9 Thomas V. HatchParley G. Hellewell
    John W. Hickman
    Ed MayneDarin G. Peterson
    Howard A. Stephenson
    David L. Thomas 10
    11 LONG TITLE
    12 General Description:
    13 This bill amends Title 76, Chapter 6a, Pyramid Scheme Act.
    14 Highlighted Provisions:
    15 This bill:
    16 . defines "compensation" to exclude commissions earned for the sale of goods or
    17 services for actual consumption;
    18 . makes participation in a pyramid scheme only by receiving compensation for
    19 recruiting another person a class B misdemeanor; and
    20 . makes technical changes.
    21 Monies Appropriated in this Bill:
    22 None
    23 Other Special Clauses:
    24 None
    25 Utah Code Sections Affected:
    26 AMENDS:
    27 76-6a-2, as enacted by Chapter 89, Laws of Utah 1983
    28 76-6a-3, as enacted by Chapter 89, Laws of Utah 1983



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    29
    76-6a-4, as last amended by Chapter 38, Laws of Utah 1993
    30
    31 Be it enacted by the Legislature of the state of Utah:
    32 Section 1. Section 76-6a-2 is amended to read:
    33 76-6a-2. Definitions.
    34 As used in this chapter:
    35 [(2)] (1) (a) "Compensation" means money bonuses, [commissions,] overrides, prizes,
    36 or other real or personal property, tangible or intangible.
    37 (b) "Compensation" does not include payment based on the sale of goods or services to
    38 anyone purchasing the goods or services for actual use or consumption.
    39 [(1)] (2) "Consideration" does not include payment for sales demonstration equipment
    40 and materials furnished at cost for use in making sales and not for resale, or time or effort spent
    41 in selling or recruiting activities.
    42 (3) "Person" includes a business trust, estate, trust, joint venture, or any other legal or
    43 commercial entity.
    44 (4) "Pyramid scheme" means any sales device or plan under which a person gives
    45 consideration to another person in exchange for compensation or the right to receive
    46 compensation which is derived primarily from the introduction of other persons into the sales
    47 device or plan rather than from the sale of goods, services, or other property.
    48 Section 2. Section 76-6a-3 is amended to read:
    49 76-6a-3. Schemes prohibited -- Violation as deceptive consumer sales practice --
    50 Prosecution of civil violations.
    51 (1) A person may not participate in, organize, establish, promote, or administer any
    52 pyramid scheme.
    53 (2) A criminal conviction under this chapter is prima facie evidence of a violation of
    54 Section 13-11-4 , the Utah Consumer Sales Practices Act.
    55 (3) Any violation of this chapter constitutes a violation of Section 13-11-4 , the Utah
    56 Consumer Sales Practices Act.
    57 (4) All civil violations of this chapter shall be investigated and prosecuted as
    58 prescribed by the Utah Consumer Sales Practices Act.
    59 Section 3. Section 76-6a-4 is amended to read:



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    60
    76-6a-4. Operation as felony -- Investigation -- Prosecution.
    61 (1) Any person who knowingly organizes, establishes, promotes, or administers a
    62 pyramid scheme is guilty of a third degree felony.
    63 (2) Any person who participates in a pyramid scheme only by receiving compensation
    64 for the introduction of other persons into the pyramid scheme rather than from the sale of
    65 goods, services, or other property is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
    66 [(2)] (3) The appropriate county attorney or district attorney has primary responsibility
    67 for investigating and prosecuting criminal violations of this chapter.




    Legislative Review Note
    as of 1-26-06 12:16 PM

    Based on a limited legal review, this legislation has not been determined to have a high
    probability of being held unconstitutional.


    Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [Bill Documents][Bills Directory]



    Questions/Comments | Utah State Home Page | Terms of Use/Privacy Policy

  7. #7
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    I'm not familiar with Taylor. Perhaps you'd like to share with us why you think his system of rating MLMs is flawed?
    1.Recruitment of participants is unlimited in an endless chain of empowered and motivated recruiters recruiting recruiters.

    No MLM is going to limit the size of the organization it can create. more participants means more product being sold. He uses this as proof that MLM's are illegal.

    2. Advancement in a hierarchy of multiple levels of participants is achieved by recruitment, rather than by appointment.

    What does this mean? by recuitment rather than by appointment. Ok so, here MLM is being compared to a job. Where you are advanced not by hitting certain volume sizes, but because you are good at brown nosing, or in the more advanced companies, you actually offer some kind of value to the corporation.

    In MLM you advance by hitting group volume requirements, it means you have put the necessary work into recruiting and selling to advance yourself to the next level. How does this make a company illegal, or bad or terrible. It's an arbitrary judgement based on one person's values.

    3. Significant requirements that participants "pay to play" the game via product purchases. Thus, new recruits are the primary customers.

    Hrmm, i've seen companies that require you to purchase so much in product volume/month. But that's just good business. I've never seen a business oppotunity in the world that didn't cost some kind of money. And if the person really didn't want to take the product, but loved the opportunity, they can retail the product. Learn how to sell, basically, if you don't want to take it. But ifyou're in an MLM and you don't like the product, you're making some bad decisions anyway.

    4. MLM company pays commissions and/or bonuses to at least 5 levels of participants, creating great "leverage" at the top.

    WOW, this is an amazing concept, because this is what the entire MLM concept is based on, Taylor took 5 things that would encompass the entire industry, put up in big RED LETTERS - THIS IS WHAT PYRAMID SCHEMES ARE AND THESE ARE THE 5 WAYS TO KNOW IF YOU ARE INVOLVED IN ONE. and then each company, he checks off, saying yes yes yes, they have all 5 elements, they are an illegal pyramid scheme. It's rather funny actually. go to his homepage and read his thesis. It's really full of holes, and contradictions. It's just a big farce, i don't know why he's so against it. From what i understand, he's appointed himself as an expert so law enforcement will use him as an expert witness in prosecuting pyramid schemes in trials. but i don't know if that's true or not.

    5. Most of the payout goes to the upline, rather than to the person selling products, creating excessive incentive to recruit and inadequate incentive to sell products (except to new recruits) – and an extreme concentration of income at the top of a hierarchy (pyramid) of participants.

    Tell me in what company this happens. Pretty much every compesation plan i have ever read, retail sales are the single highest paid percentage in the comp plan. This is just and outight lie, about most companies. And it's funny, because he just has every company listed, and checks off these 5 areas for them all. Doesn't show any supporting data, nothing showing actual numbers proving this. It's all a dog and pony show, makes it look good, but when you dig, there's no substance behind it. As for the participants at the top of large organizations. Of course they make more money. They put way more time and effort and built large organizations of people that follow thier leadership. They SHOULD be paid more.

    You ever seen the movie My Cousin Vinny. Remember the scene when Vinny is sitting down with his cousin accused of murder. He pulls out a playing card and says to his cousin. that the prosecutor doesn't have a case, because you didn't do it. So what he's gonna do is he is going to make a playing card look like a brick. He's gonna say look it has 4 sides, a flat surface. It's a brick, but when you turn it on its side, it's paper thin. Theres nothing there. Because he has no case, no real evidence. This is a perfect example of how Taylor writes and "creates" his evidence

  8. #8

    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Those of you who react negatively to our research have obviously not read it. I thought this site was to expose scams, not condone them. To get informed, go to - http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/mlm_research.htm
    Read the FULL report on the "5 Red Flags" and several others there. These are not just opinions drawn out of the air.

    You would also do well to go to the recommended links and read what others who are informed have written. Examples are www.pyramidschemealert.org and www.merchantsofdeception.com.

    JMT

  9. #9
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Hey moderator, what happened to people shamelessly endorsing their products on this website...

  10. #10
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cscirpoli
    Hey moderator, what happened to people shamelessly endorsing their products on this website...
    What's he selling, exactly?

  11. #11
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    May 2005
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    871

    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    What's he selling, exactly?
    his website.

  12. #12
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    Oct 2005
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cscirpoli
    his website.
    Oh, it's not a free site??

  13. #13
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    May 2005
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    Oh, it's not a free site??
    no its free, i just get annoyed by him so shut up already :)

  14. #14
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by cscirpoli
    no its free, i just get annoyed by him so shut up already :)
    Ah, gotcha. And here I thought I was just not getting this! ;)

  15. #15
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Dr. Taylor,

    Welcome and thank you for the wonderful work you do! May I also sugggest that you visit Quatloos.com and share this vital info there. I have endlessly researched MLMs and crunched the numbers and I think it is imperative folks have the information they need to make an informed decision. I am proud to work here and over yonder to give folks the real facts behind these ventures and I frequently place the link to your site up so folks can get more info. Thanks again!

    Soapboxmom

  16. #16
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    Re: Help! DSA seeking to gut Utah's Pyramid Scheme Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom
    Dr. Taylor,

    Welcome and thank you for the wonderful work you do! May I also sugggest that you visit Quatloos.com and share this vital info there. I have endlessly researched MLMs and crunched the numbers and I think it is imperative folks have the information they need to make an informed decision. I am proud to work here and over yonder to give folks the real facts behind these ventures and I frequently place the link to your site up so folks can get more info. Thanks again!

    Soapboxmom
    lol...wow...have you read his stuff, even taking a biased approach on the industry, it's terrbily filled with holes and a thesis with not much real evidence to back it. And you're "math", yes it's not easy to create a residual income with utility based MLM's. But the same math doesn't work for product based MLM's as plenty of people are making money off their personal sales. And not to mention there's not factoring in the number of reps that are actually active and innactive. and squeezing out the reps who have quit withing the first 30-60 days without doing anything. Which means actively getting customers, that would represent the true earnings across the board.

    And as for your argument they should post that information, why should they, because you believe they should? They are not obligated by law to do that as a private company. Who appointed you queen of values and ethics? All i see is someone on a crusade not really going anywhere. Poeple are still joining MLM anyway, the only people you persuaded were the ones that would have quit in the first 30 days anway. The ones people don't really want in their organization anyway. So you;re actually benefitting these people by helping them with the sorting process. Because anyone with half a mind and entrepeneurial spirit doesn't really care what someone on a board says and will see for themselves. Or look for people that have actually made money with it to see if its possible So, i hope your ranting is doing you well. Cause it's actually helping the industry out. Have a good night Soapboxmom...

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