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  1. #1
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    The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Hello People,

    For all the good God-fearing anti-abortion citizens on this board, explain this screaming hypocrisy. It is long, but worth the read.

    When the Anti-choice choose.

    It just goes to show, "choice" is not a cut and dried act. "Choice" is not easy, or convenient. "Choice" is not done by women who are, lazy, stupid, promiscuous, Godless, or weak. "Choice" is painful, difficult, and frightening, for many, many, women, and their families.


    DeeDee1965

  2. #2
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    Hello People,

    For all the good God-fearing anti-abortion citizens on this board, explain this screaming hypocrisy. It is long, but worth the read.

    When the Anti-choice choose.

    It just goes to show, "choice" is not a cut and dried act. "Choice" is not easy, or convenient. "Choice" is not done by women who are, lazy, stupid, promiscuous, Godless, or weak. "Choice" is painful, difficult, and frightening, for many, many, women, and their families.


    DeeDee1965
    I don't disagree with anything that you just said, but that does still not make it right.

  3. #3
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNow
    I don't disagree with anything that you just said, but that does still not make it right.
    It may not be morally right, if indeed your morals hold that abortion is taking another life (and don't jump my case, I feel personally that abortion is not an option for me).

    However, it is equally wrong to pass such judgment onto another human being and not allow them the freedom of choice as governed by their own moral standards. No matter how you slice and dice it, denying another human freedom of choice in a "private" matter concerning their own body, is wrong.

    And hypocritical if you aren't actively working to provide alternatives for those you stand in judgment of.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  4. #4
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNow
    I don't disagree with anything that you just said, but that does still not make it right.
    Hello GoneNow,

    If by "it" you mean, abortion, no one said it was "right." However, it is a necessary, and valid medical procedure, sought out by some women.

    The fact that some women; who walk anti-abortion picket lines, trying to prevent other women from going into women's health clinics. Passing out pamphlets talking about the evils, and wrongness of abortion, and wave pictures of aborted fetuses, are in the unfortunate position of needing an abortion, is startling. Also, the fact that these same women must seek an abortion, is not only hypocrisy, but almost bordering on schizophrenia.

    This behavior is not healthy for the picketers, the women going to the health clinics, the women's familles, the doctors, or clinic workers. And most importantly, it is not healthy for, our or any other civilized society.

    I wish no one had to get an abortion. I wish no one had an unwanted pregnancy. I wish women were free to live their lives without fear, harassment, or discrimination. I wish women got equal pay for equal work. I wish we had a 50% female representation in the House and the Senate, in line with the fact women are 50% of the population. I wish we had, and will have a woman President.

    But, I live in the on this planet, in this particular space-time continuum, so I must settle for fighting the good fight. And letting people know some of the things I find out, that may be useful to them in thier struggles.

    No one ever said, the hard choices, the tough battles, and the difficult situations are right or wrong, they just "are," and we must deal with them the best way we can.

    DeeDee1965

  5. #5
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    It may not be morally right, if indeed your morals hold that abortion is taking another life (and don't jump my case, I feel personally that abortion is not an option for me).

    However, it is equally wrong to pass such judgment onto another human being and not allow them the freedom of choice as governed by their own moral standards. No matter how you slice and dice it, denying another human freedom of choice in a "private" matter concerning their own body, is wrong.

    And hypocritical if you aren't actively working to provide alternatives for those you stand in judgment of.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod
    I agree. The tone of pro-lifer’s many arguments in the ‘all we’re asking for’ preamble in everything they say is disingenuous at best, most often it is a flat out lie. The fundies want to theocratize every facet of American life. The same nut jobs that were bombing clinics are also placing shrines in courthouses, teaching creationist bs in public schools and trying to limit or deny everyone’s right to make valid health care choices if THEY disagree with them. Isn’t bad enough that we let the bean counters take over the HMO’S?
    If the trend continues as the fundies would like, we won’t be allowed any freedom of choice in medicine. They would have us consult with a preacher first.
    Wack-jobs all of them!


    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=3983

    "The patient's right to choose the therapist and determine the therapeutic goals." Patients' rights are indeed important, especially since they are already being theocratized.

    For example, if you're a woman and your physician or health care provider has a personal religious objection to the OB/GYN procedure you want or need, s/he can refuse treatment. And if your physician gives you a prescription for birth control or the "morning after" pill, the pharmacist can refuse to fill the prescription. The theocratizing of health care is well underway in this country."

  6. #6
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    I agree. The tone of pro-lifer’s many arguments in the ‘all we’re asking for’ preamble in everything they say is disingenuous at best, most often it is a flat out lie. The fundies want to theocratize every facet of American life. The same nut jobs that were bombing clinics are also placing shrines in courthouses, teaching creationist bs in public schools and trying to limit or deny everyone’s right to make valid health care choices if THEY disagree with them. Isn’t bad enough that we let the bean counters take over the HMO’S?
    If the trend continues as the fundies would like, we won’t be allowed any freedom of choice in medicine. They would have us consult with a preacher first.
    Wack-jobs all of them!


    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=3983

    "The patient's right to choose the therapist and determine the therapeutic goals." Patients' rights are indeed important, especially since they are already being theocratized.

    For example, if you're a woman and your physician or health care provider has a personal religious objection to the OB/GYN procedure you want or need, s/he can refuse treatment. And if your physician gives you a prescription for birth control or the "morning after" pill, the pharmacist can refuse to fill the prescription. The theocratizing of health care is well underway in this country."
    Fortunately, atheists are doctors too... ;)
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #7
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    Hello GoneNow,

    If by "it" you mean, abortion, no one said it was "right." However, it is a necessary, and valid medical procedure, sought out by some women.

    The fact that some women; who walk anti-abortion picket lines, trying to prevent other women from going into women's health clinics. Passing out pamphlets talking about the evils, and wrongness of abortion, and wave pictures of aborted fetuses, are in the unfortunate position of needing an abortion, is startling. Also, the fact that these same women must seek an abortion, is not only hypocrisy, but almost bordering on schizophrenia.

    This behavior is not healthy for the picketers, the women going to the health clinics, the women's familles, the doctors, or clinic workers. And most importantly, it is not healthy for, our or any other civilized society.

    I wish no one had to get an abortion. I wish no one had an unwanted pregnancy. I wish women were free to live their lives without fear, harassment, or discrimination. I wish women got equal pay for equal work. I wish we had a 50% female representation in the House and the Senate, in line with the fact women are 50% of the population. I wish we had, and will have a woman President.

    But, I live in the on this planet, in this particular space-time continuum, so I must settle for fighting the good fight. And letting people know some of the things I find out, that may be useful to them in thier struggles.

    No one ever said, the hard choices, the tough battles, and the difficult situations are right or wrong, they just "are," and we must deal with them the best way we can.

    DeeDee1965
    Let's see: It is "necessary", one can "need " an abortion, but you wish no one had an "unwanted" pregnancy...

    What is so confusing? There are hypocrites on both sides of every issue. When a person CHOOSES to have an abortion, for no reason other than inconvenience, they are killing a baby. When a person HAS to have an abortion for medical reasons, they are protecting themselves from harm. Certain people will NEVER have an abortion, certain people will have several, for selfish, childish reasons. Does that make one a better person than the other? Sure, it does.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    What is so confusing? There are hypocrites on both sides of every issue. When a person CHOOSES to have an abortion, for no reason other than inconvenience, they are killing a baby. When a person HAS to have an abortion for medical reasons, they are protecting themselves from harm. Certain people will NEVER have an abortion, certain people will have several, for selfish, childish reasons. Does that make one a better person than the other? Sure, it does.

    Not really. If you take this beyond abortion, let's say, take it to going to war, the same reasoning applies. Now, this is for all nations, not just the U.S.

    Every life has value. When we get callous enough to say, well, innocent lives are lost when we fire upon an enemy and feel no remorse or look for a better way to deal with the situation, whatever that particular situation may be, we are no better than a woman who has an abortion for selfish, childish reasons. The good of the many do not outweigh the good of the few.

    It must be part of the human psychie, we are war like creatures.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  9. #9
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Let's see: It is "necessary," one can "need " an abortion, but you wish no one had an "unwanted" pregnancy...

    What is so confusing? There are hypocrites on both sides of every issue. When a person CHOOSES to have an abortion, for no reason other than inconvenience, they are killing a baby. When a person HAS to have an abortion for medical reasons, they are protecting themselves from harm. Certain people will NEVER have an abortion, certain people will have several, for selfish, childish reasons. Does that make one a better person than the other? Sure, it does.
    Hi Pwrone,

    Did you read the entire piece? There were women in the piece, who had more than one abortion. They were not for life threatening reasons. The women had made mistakes, and needed to use the very procedure they wanted to stop other women from using. It is not just about pro-life women, getting an abortion if they need one, it is about, harassing, impeding and trying to intimidate other women in the same predicament. Is this hard for you to understand?? What is so difficult about acknowledging this kind of hypocrisy? What is your difficulty is seeing this for what it is?

    You favorite thing to do on this board, is to show the hypocrisy of the "left," "liberals," Democrats, etc., etc. I am just following in your footsteps. LOL LOL

    DeeDee1965

  10. #10
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    I don't think you read my post. Hypocrisy is on both sides of the issue. I agree that those who would attempt to keep women from having needless abortions while having needless abortions themselves are even worse than the ones simply having needless abortions.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    It may not be morally right, if indeed your morals hold that abortion is taking another life (and don't jump my case, I feel personally that abortion is not an option for me).

    However, it is equally wrong to pass such judgment onto another human being and not allow them the freedom of choice as governed by their own moral standards. No matter how you slice and dice it, denying another human freedom of choice in a "private" matter concerning their own body, is wrong.

    And hypocritical if you aren't actively working to provide alternatives for those you stand in judgment of.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod
    I'm not passing judgement, just stating a simple observation. So don't go throwing that "hipocritical lable on me .....I have said nothing to be marked as a hypocrit. But I also do not agree with you that, "allow them the freedom of choice as governed by their own moral standards". The purpose of law and society has never been to preserve individual morel society but to preserve the group judgement for what is best for the whole of society. You also spout claims like, "denying another human freedom of choice in a "private" matter concerning their own body, is wrong". On the other hand Claims like Denying a unique human individual the right to grow and florish is wrong. Both sides have thier points. You as Moderator should try to stay impartial or when you decide that you have to make a statement not use your Title and be just one more post on the board. At this point you are the one casting judgement.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Shoot me down if you must - but here's my 2 cents-
    I think the moderators should be entitled to their opinions the same as anyone else - hey, really - what did you pay to post here? I believe they are held to the same standard as anyone else. I haven't seen otherwise. It's a cheap shot - at best - to attach the moderators.
    While the "abortion" subject matter is worthy of serious discussion (and a very emotional issue) I find the source to be "sensationalist". The issue should not be "who" had an abortion. Or, for that matter, what their opinion is. The solution to the problem of "abortion" will have to address many situations - severe deformity, aids, drug dependency, rape, incest, medical conditions of the mother, and the meriad of other possibilities. I could just as easily say - no MAN could understand this issue - but I know for certain that this is not true. Should every pregnancy be carried to term, at any expense, regardless of the outcome or the life that child may have to endure to satisfy some person carrying a sign in some protest march?
    DeeDee sign up as a home care worker for a family with autistic children. Put your time in on a Saturday night so they can have 3 hours at a movie. I promise I'll be there to play cards and help you put out the fires the kids start. I hope you know cpr and first aid. Are you familiar with "fiberal convulsions" - no sweat - I'm an old hand. How about "insulin shock" - do you know the difference between hyper and hypo gylcemia? Have you known someone with spinabifida - and the pain some live with everyday? Who will care for the severely handicapped children you campaign for - YOU? In spite of abortion - the world has more needy children than can be properly cared for. I do not endorse abortion as a means of birth control. I just think, in the whole scheme of things - attaching abortion is the wrong end of the horse!

  13. #13
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNow
    I'm not passing judgement, just stating a simple observation. So don't go throwing that "hipocritical lable on me .....I have said nothing to be marked as a hypocrit. But I also do not agree with you that, "allow them the freedom of choice as governed by their own moral standards". The purpose of law and society has never been to preserve individual morel society but to preserve the group judgement for what is best for the whole of society. You also spout claims like, "denying another human freedom of choice in a "private" matter concerning their own body, is wrong". On the other hand Claims like Denying a unique human individual the right to grow and florish is wrong. Both sides have thier points. You as Moderator should try to stay impartial or when you decide that you have to make a statement not use your Title and be just one more post on the board. At this point you are the one casting judgement.

    It was a statement in general, if I was calling you names or "passing judgment" on you I would have been very specific, you would have known I was singling you out. There was no need to become so defensive, unless of course I struck close to the truth? I hadn't considered that possibility, but perhaps that's the right of it.

    And the Political forum is no longer moderated, I'm just a poster here like you. I use my title only because that is who I am known as. I am not afraid to be who I am and feel no need or desire to hide behind alternate user names. History on these forums show that when I'm right, folks will start calling for me to be impartial, just like you did.

    The Supreme Court made ruling that life begins at birth. Late term abortions are still frowned upon. Until those rulings are changed, it's not illegal or considered murder to have an abortion.

    You aren't the one who stands before God on judgment day and answer for the lives of these children, the women who aborted them do. It's not your place to judge them, but help them with alternatives.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  14. #14
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by linda49
    While the "abortion" subject matter is worthy of serious discussion (and a very emotional issue) I find the source to be "sensationalist". The issue should not be "who" had an abortion. Or, for that matter, what their opinion is. The solution to the problem of "abortion" will have to address many situations - severe deformity, aids, drug dependency, rape, incest, medical conditions of the mother, and the meriad of other possibilities. I could just as easily say - no MAN could understand this issue - but I know for certain that this is not true. Should every pregnancy be carried to term, at any expense, regardless of the outcome or the life that child may have to endure to satisfy some person carrying a sign in some protest march?
    DeeDee sign up as a home care worker for a family with autistic children. Put your time in on a Saturday night so they can have 3 hours at a movie. I promise I'll be there to play cards and help you put out the fires the kids start. I hope you know cpr and first aid. Are you familiar with "fiberal convulsions" - no sweat - I'm an old hand. How about "insulin shock" - do you know the difference between hyper and hypo gylcemia? Have you known someone with spinabifida - and the pain some live with everyday? Who will care for the severely handicapped children you campaign for - YOU? In spite of abortion - the world has more needy children than can be properly cared for. I do not endorse abortion as a means of birth control. I just think, in the whole scheme of things - attaching abortion is the wrong end of the horse!
    Well said Linda. With the exception that DeeDee isn't condemning abortion. Though GoneNow, and to some degree Pwrone, might want to follow your advice and become a solution and not just a keyboard critic.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  15. #15
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Can we agree that the VAST majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, the health of the mother, AIDS, deformity, etc., and EVERYTHING to do with inconvenience? That these pregnancies happen through laziness and promiscuity? That a lack of a sense of responsibility or simple morality is the cause of most of this endless death train? That it is simply 'easier' to abort than have a baby and put it up for adoption? That these abortions are, then, murder? (Okay, I was going for it...)

  16. #16
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    Re: The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the Anti-Choice Choose.

    Hi Linda49,

    I want to thank Lady Mod for making my position clear. However, Linda, I would like to know, what gave you the impression I was against abortion?

    I am really, very curious. :)

    DeeDee1965

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