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  1. #129
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Hmmmm...you seem to have an education. Do you really believe what the aclu tells you? To them, anytime a search of a person is done that does not reveal a bomb, the Patriot act has violated someones rights. You know what? If you don't want to be searched, don't ride the subway. Don't fly on a public airline. Read the aclu positions on nambla and get back to me. Their entire platform is built on a series of lies. They exist only to undermine the values of our country and our government. As a group that supports the abolition of almost EVERY law on human behavior, they have a reduced stature in other legal areas. They use the law as a weapon and interpret it to feed the hunger of the sickness of liberalism.

    And as for investigating the anti-war people, please...I simply must know...name the person or persons who can prove that they have been harmed by our government as a response to their peaceful protests of our war policies. The 'enemies of the state' are people like churchill, chomsky, sheehan...how are they doin'? Anyone put a well-deserved bullet in THEIR brains? Now, if it was a CLINTON White House...they would have reason to fear.

    Do you know that the public overwhelmingly supports the Patriot act?
    Last edited by pwrone; 01-25-2006 at 08:04 PM.

  2. #130
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Do you know that the public overwhelmingly supports the Patriot act?
    Really? Then why haven't I ever personally spoken to a single person who "supports" it? You may be the first.

  3. #131
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Really? Then why haven't I ever personally spoken to a single person who "supports" it? You may be the first.
    You obviously don't get out much. Climb out from under that rock sometime!

    :cool:

  4. #132
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Really? Then why haven't I ever personally spoken to a single person who "supports" it? You may be the first.
    See, this is the problem with liberals...they have NO IDEA how real people think. Their world is made up of theories and suppositions, not reality. Not ever. How else to explain them falling on their swords AGAIN over a foregone-concluded successful Supreme court nom...the only way THAT could have worked better for the good guys is if he had nominated JRBrown. Then we could have exposed the racism and sexism of these creatures along with everything else. What a beautiful time in America!!


    Poll: Support Seen for Patriot Act

    Analysis By GARY LANGER

    June 9, 2005 -- Against a backdrop of heightened public concern about government intrusions, six in 10 Americans favor extending the Patriot Act, but majorities oppose expanding it by adding new FBI powers to issue subpoenas and access U.S. mail.

    Fifty-nine percent in an ABC News/Washington Post poll favor continuing the additional investigative authority in terrorism investigations that was granted to the FBI starting in 2001. President Bush urged such an extension of the Patriot Act today.

    But there are some compunctions behind that support: Just half the public now says the United States government is doing enough to protect the rights of Americans citizens as it conducts the war on terrorism, down from 61 percent to 74 percent in polls in 2002 and 2003. That's not unexpected; most Americans in the past have accepted possible privacy intrusions at times of national crisis — but not on an unlimited or permanent basis. As the immediacy of the sense of crisis wanes, interest in privacy rights can reassert itself.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/PollVault/story?id=833703

  5. #133
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    WARNING
    BULLSH*T ALERT
    Pwrone,
    First of the poll is 8 months old.
    Not relevant. Does not reflect opinions that Americans have NOW.
    There are 280 million people in this great country of ours my friend.
    1,002 IN THE WHOLE SAMPLE.
    This poll is ridiculous.
    REJECT!
    TOTAL BULLSH^T

    Below is from YOUR link!!!!!!

    Methodology

    This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by telephone June 2-5, 2005, among a random national sample of 1,002 adults. The results have a three-point error margin. Sampling, data collection and tabulation by TNS of Horsham, Pa.

  6. #134
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    WARNING
    BULLSH*T ALERT
    Pwrone,
    First of the poll is 8 months old.
    Not relevant. Does not reflect opinions that Americans have NOW.
    There are 280 million people in this great country of ours my friend.
    1,002 IN THE WHOLE SAMPLE.
    This poll is ridiculous.
    REJECT!
    TOTAL BULLSH^T

    Below is from YOUR link!!!!!!

    Methodology

    This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by telephone June 2-5, 2005, among a random national sample of 1,002 adults. The results have a three-point error margin. Sampling, data collection and tabulation by TNS of Horsham, Pa.

    So, how did I KNOW I would get that from ya? The same way we can predict the cowardice, fear and weakness that oozes from the left on a daily basis!!



    "What do you think is more important right now -- for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy; or for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats?"


    .

    Investigate On Privacy Not Intrude Unsure

    % % %
    1/5-8/06 65 32 3

    "Based on what you have heard or read about the Patriot Act, do you think all of its provisions should be kept, that it needs minor changes, that it needs major changes, or that it needs to be eliminated completely?"


    .



    All Should Needs Minor Needs Major Needs To Be
    Be Kept Changes Changes Eliminated Unsure
    % % % % %
    1/6-8/06 13 50 24 7 7

    http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm


    NOW WHAT??

  7. #135
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    pwrone,
    What do polls really represent? The news media always uses percentages to report results. What do those percentages actually represent? Polls are based on a sample population. How many people are in the sample? There are over 140 million registered voters in this country. We are deceived by the media.
    This means that………………ALL POLLS ARE BS.
    NEVER and I mean NEVER have I seen a poll I like!!
    They never have a large enough sample. They are manipulated by both sides of an argument and the political spectrum to present the point of view that represents that pollster agenda.
    A lot of people at scam.com already know that!
    Have a nice day
    PSB

    PS. Yours was well deserving of a special BS ALERT though, because it very old and used a very short sample.

  8. #136
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    You obviously don't get out much. Climb out from under that rock sometime!

    :cool:
    Do you support the part where they obliterate the fourth amendment?

    This warrantless surveillance was just a natural progression from there.

    Where will YOU draw the line, Raider?

  9. #137
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    So, how did I KNOW I would get that from ya? The same way we can predict the cowardice, fear and weakness that oozes from the left on a daily basis!!



    "What do you think is more important right now -- for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy; or for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats?"


    .

    Investigate On Privacy Not Intrude Unsure

    % % %
    1/5-8/06 65 32 3

    "Based on what you have heard or read about the Patriot Act, do you think all of its provisions should be kept, that it needs minor changes, that it needs major changes, or that it needs to be eliminated completely?"


    .



    All Should Needs Minor Needs Major Needs To Be
    Be Kept Changes Changes Eliminated Unsure
    % % % % %
    1/6-8/06 13 50 24 7 7

    http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm


    NOW WHAT??
    Like I said before Pwrone, if America would get their head out of Israel's a$$, it would help to cease the terrorist actions against us. The actions of Israel to divide and conquer land around them, with little regard to their neighbors, brings me to believe they truly don't want peace; they just want their own way. And America seems quite content to fuel the insurgency against itself by continuing to support them. "Have it your way" is a Burger King slogan, not America's answer to every whim of Israel.

  10. #138
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    See, this is the problem with liberals...they have NO IDEA how real people think.
    But YOU know "how real people think" because YOU read an ABC news poll.

    Gotcha.

    You'll notice some interesting things about that poll. Number one, a majority of Democrats disagreed with extending the Patriot Act. (But that's probably just because they don't know how "real people" think, you know, not being real people themselves).

    Secondly, you'll notice that a large majority is opposed to allowing the FBI access to records without court approval (i.e. warrantless searches and seizures).

    In other words, a large majority is opposed to the "sneak and peek" clause of the Patriot Act.

    So while "real people" might support someaspects of the Patriot Act, when it comes to the controversial sections, the overwhelming majority does NOT support it.

  11. #139
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    What?? Read it again, this time paying attention to what it says...while most dems(a thankfully rapidly shrinking demographic) are of course against protecting this country, most Independents and almost all Republicans are for it. Not really what you were implying at all, is it? "I don't know anyone in favor of the Patriot Act"...You know what? I believe you.

  12. #140
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    I don't need to read it again. I recall quite well what it says, and what it says is precisely as I described it.

    You would do well, however, to read it again, because is does NOT say anything like "most democrats are against protecting the USA". It shows that most democrats are opposed to extending the USA Patriot Act, just as I said.

    It also shows that a majority (including dems, reps, and inds) are opposed to warrantless searches and seizures.

    In other words, a majority of people are opposed to the clauses of the Patriot Act known collectively as "sneak and peek" which authorize warrantless searches and seizures.

    Look again. Read it for yourself. That's what the poll says.

  13. #141
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawb
    Like I said before Pwrone, if America would get their head out of Israel's a$$, it would help to cease the terrorist actions against us. The actions of Israel to divide and conquer land around them, with little regard to their neighbors, brings me to believe they truly don't want peace; they just want their own way. And America seems quite content to fuel the insurgency against itself by continuing to support them. "Have it your way" is a Burger King slogan, not America's answer to every whim of Israel.

    Have you ever noticed a rather conspicuous and common trait among the Israel-1st...America-(?) crowd? They are uniformly for totalitarian control and intrusion into the personal private lives of Americans. They are all for anything that monitors the way you think, the media you view, the people with whom you associate, and the places where you spend your money. This is why they love their fake, phony "War On Terrorism", Big Brother Bush and his "Patriot Act". They are terrified that average Americans will someday awaken and get fed up with our government being run from Tel Aviv. They are horrified at the thought of Americans demanding the sterilizing of the Zionist's viruses in our Congress, Israel's spies in our military, and liberating us from the pernicious and corrupt influence of AIPAC and the likes of Abramoff and his clones. Their worst nightmare is the visage of true Americans waking up and wresting back the reins of our society and destiny and returning the grip to those who would put America's interests first above that of Israel. In my opinion, the best possible remedy for this type of virulent disease is a good firing squad.
    Last edited by dante; 01-26-2006 at 04:16 PM.

  14. #142
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Quote Originally Posted by dante
    Have you ever noticed a rather conspicuous and common trait among the Israel-1st...America-(?) crowd? They are uniformly for totalitarian control and intrusion into the personal private lives of Americans. They are all for anything that monitors the way you think, the media you view, the people with whom you associate, and the places where you spend your money. This is why they love their fake, phony "War On Terrorism", Big Brother Bush and his "Patriot Act". They are terrified that average Americans will someday awaken and get fed up with our government being run from Tel Aviv. They are horrified at the thought of Americans demanding the sterilizing of the Zionist's viruses in our Congress, Israel's spies in our military, and liberating us from the pernicious and corrupt influence of AIPAC and the likes of Abramoff and his clones. Their worst nightmare is the visage of true Americans waking up and wresting back the reins of our society and destiny and returning the grip to those who would put America's interests first above that of Israel. In my opinion, the best possible remedy for this type of virulent disease is a good firing squad.
    Like I said in another thread, when Israel says "Jump!!" Bush says "HOW HIGH !??"

    And I would wager money on this thought that if America suddenly withdrew ALL support, Israel could very well consider that a future threat to their security. And how most extremists think, that would be a threat to OUR security. More so since they have nukes. I don't think they would bat an eye to blow us sky high. Maybe that is the reason why we support them so much. America is more scared of them than the arab countries.

    Eventually, countries that act as such are bound to turn on one another eventually. As we saw in WWII with Germany breaking their non-aggression pact with Russia. Since Israel is spying and stealing military secrets from us, I would think they wouldn't blink to use it against us if one day we just ceased our support of their extremist regime. Just an observation.

  15. #143
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    Re: SPYING on Americans is GREAT.....if it is a democrat doing it

    Bush Authorized Domestic Spying Before 9/11



    By Jason Leopold
    t r u t h o u t | Perspective
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011306Z.shtml
    Friday 13 January 2006

    The National Security Agency advised President Bush in early 2001 that it had been eavesdropping on Americans during the course of its work monitoring suspected terrorists and foreigners believed to have ties to terrorist groups, according to a declassified document.

    The NSA's vast data-mining activities began shortly after Bush was sworn in as president and the document contradicts his assertion that the 9/11 attacks prompted him to take the unprecedented step of signing a secret executive order authorizing the NSA to monitor a select number of American citizens thought to have ties to terrorist groups.

    In its "Transition 2001" report, the NSA said that the ever-changing world of global communication means that "American communication and targeted adversary communication will coexist."

    "Make no mistake, NSA can and will perform its missions consistent with the Fourth Amendment and all applicable laws," the document says.

    However, it adds that "senior leadership must understand that the NSA's mission will demand a 'powerful, permanent presence' on global telecommunications networks that host both 'protected' communications of Americans and the communications of adversaries the agency wants to target."

    What had long been understood to be protocol in the event that the NSA spied on average Americans was that the agency would black out the identities of those individuals or immediately destroy the information.

    But according to people who worked at the NSA as encryption specialists during this time, that's not what happened. On orders from Defense Department officials and President Bush, the agency kept a running list of the names of Americans in its system and made it readily available to a number of senior officials in the Bush administration, these sources said, which in essence meant the NSA was conducting a covert domestic surveillance operation in violation of the law.

    James Risen, author of the book State of War and credited with first breaking the story about the NSA's domestic surveillance operations, said President Bush personally authorized a change in the agency's long-standing policies shortly after he was sworn in in 2001.

    "The president personally and directly authorized new operations, like the NSA's domestic surveillance program, that almost certainly would never have been approved under normal circumstances and that raised serious legal or political questions," Risen wrote in the book. "Because of the fevered climate created throughout the government by the president and his senior advisers, Bush sent signals of what he wanted done, without explicit presidential orders" and "the most ambitious got the message."

    The NSA's domestic surveillance activities that began in early 2001 reached a boiling point shortly after 9/11, when senior administration officials and top intelligence officials asked the NSA to share that data with other intelligence officials who worked for the FBI and the CIA to hunt down terrorists that might be in the United States. However the NSA, on advice from its lawyers, destroyed the records, fearing the agency could be subjected to lawsuits by American citizens identified in the agency's raw intelligence reports.

    The declassified report says that the "Director of the National Security Agency is obligated by law to keep Congress fully and currently formed of intelligence activities." But that didn't happen. When news of the NSA's clandestine domestic spying operation, which President Bush said he had authorized in 2002, was uncovered last month by the New York Times, Democratic and Republican members of Congress appeared outraged, claiming that they were never informed of the covert surveillance operation. It's unclear whether the executive order signed by Bush removes the NSA Director from his duty to brief members of Congress about the agency's intelligence gathering programs.

    Eavesdropping on Americans required intelligence officials to obtain a surveillance warrant from a special court and show probable cause that the person they wanted to monitor was communicating with suspected terrorists overseas. But Bush said that the process for obtaining such warrants under the 1978 Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act was, at times, "cumbersome."

    In a December 22, letter to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Assistant Attorney General William E. Moschella wrote that the "President determined it was necessary following September 11 to create an early warning detection system. FISA could not have provided the speed and agility required for the early warning detection system."

    However, what remains murky about that line of reasoning is that after 9/11, former Attorney General John Ashcroft undertook a full-fledged lobbying campaign to loosen the rules and the laws governing FISA to make it easier for the intelligence community to obtain warrants for wiretaps to spy on Americans who might have ties to terrorists. Since the legislative change, more than 4,000 surveillance warrants have been approved by the FISA court, leading many to wonder why Bush selectively chose to bypass the court for what he said were a select number of individuals.

    More than a dozen legal scholars dispute Moschella's legal analysis, saying in a letter just sent to Congress that the White House failed to identify "any plausible legal authority for such surveillance."

    cont at site

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