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  1. #1
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    President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    This Yoo guy needs to be replaced.
    **************************************

    Bush Advisor Says President Has Legal Power to Torture Children
    By Philip Watts

    01/08/06 "revcom.us" -- -- John Yoo publicly argued there is no law that could prevent the President from ordering the torture of a child of a suspect in custody – including by crushing that child’s testicles.

    This came out in response to a question in a December 1st debate in Chicago with Notre Dame professor and international human rights scholar Doug Cassel.

    What is particularly chilling and revealing about this is that John Yoo was a key architect post-9/11 Bush Administration legal policy. As a deputy assistant to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, John Yoo authored a number of legal memos arguing for unlimited presidential powers to order torture of captive suspects, and to declare war anytime, any where, and on anyone the President deemed a threat.

    It has now come out Yoo also had a hand in providing legal reasoning for the President to conduct unauthorized wiretaps of U.S. citizens. Georgetown Law Professor David Cole wrote, "Few lawyers have had more influence on President Bush’s legal policies in the 'war on terror’ than John Yoo."

    This part of the exchange during the debate with Doug Cassel, reveals the logic of Yoo’s theories, adopted by the Administration as bedrock principles, in the real world.

    Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
    Yoo: No treaty.
    Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
    Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

    The audio of this exchange is available HERE.

    Yoo argues presidential powers on Constitutional grounds, but where in the Constitution does it say the President can order the torture of children ? As David Cole puts it, "Yoo reasoned that because the Constitution makes the President the 'Commander-in-Chief,’ no law can restrict the actions he may take in pursuit of war. On this reasoning, the President would be entitled by the Constitution to resort to genocide if he wished."

    What is the position of the Bush Administration on the torture of children, since one of its most influential legal architects is advocating the President’s right to order the crushing of a child’s testicles?

    This fascist logic has nothing to do with "getting information" as Yoo has argued. The legal theory developed by Yoo and a few others and adopted by the Administration has resulted in thousands being abducted from their homes in Afghanistan, Iraq or other parts of the world, mostly at random. People have been raped, electrocuted, nearly drowned and tortured literally to death in U.S.-run torture centers in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Guantánamo Bay. And there is much still to come out. What about the secret centers in Europe or the many still-suppressed photos from Abu Ghraib? What can explain this sadistic, indiscriminate, barbaric brutality except a need to instill widespread fear among people all over the world?

    It is ironic that just prior to arguing the President's legal right to torture children, John Yoo was defensive about the Bush administration policies, based on his legal memo’s, being equated to those during Nazi Germany.

    Yoo said, "If you are trying to draw a moral equivalence between the Nazis and what the United States is trying to do in defending themselves against Al Qauueda and the 9/11 attacks, I fully reject that. Second, if you’re trying to equate the Bush Administration to Nazi officials who committed atrocities in the holocaust, I completely reject that too…I think to equate Nazi Germany to the Bush Administration is irresponsible."

    If open promotion of unmitigated executive power, including the right to order the torture of innocent children, isn’t sufficient basis for drawing such a "moral equivalence," then I don’t know what is. What would be irresponsible is to sit by and allow the Bush regime to radically remake society in a fascist way, with repercussions for generations to come. We must act now because the future is in the balance. The world cannot wait. While Bush gives his State of the Union on January 31st, I’ll find myself along with many thousands across the country declaring "Bush Step Down And take your program with you."


    .

  2. #2
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    I don't think I have ever felt such a profound sense of gutrenching fear regarding this administration. People, this was all a setup so they could create this exact senario. We are suppose to have a balance of power but these NeoCons are saying that 9/11 has given them authority to act like dictators and all in the name of "security"? Why don't we just invite Saddam Hussain over and have him replace Bush as President because we are selling out our birthright as Americans. This is just plain insane and yet they can stand there and deny they aren't acting just like Nazi's! How amazing! If Alito gets seated as a Justice then you can kiss American democracy good-by. It wouldn't surprize me if Bush decides to declare himself President for life. They wanted this illegal war. Why else did they ignore the warnings about Bin Laden? Let another Pearl Harbor take place and then attack a country that had nothing to do with it. They wanted to grab the oil fields Iraq and then turn this country into a fascist dictatorship. Hope all you Bush supporters are happy. Just as the 91% of Germans who voted to give Hitler total power, and you can see how they ultimately paid for that sin, so you shall ultimately pay for supporting this fascist cabal. Celebrate now because your karma is going to bite you in the ass eventually. It's just a shame that so many people will have to suffer and I hope you feel proud that you helped destroy this wonderful nation, all in the name of your twisted concept of power. If you can afford to get out of the country, then do so. Once this cabal has been overthrown, you can return to help rebuild our nation into the shining glory it once was. This whole situation breaks my heart but I guess there isn't a nation in the history of the world that hasn't had to experiance it's time in hell, looks like it's our turn.

  3. #3
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Come on now. There would be absolutely ZERO bias from the Revolutionary Communist Party of the USA?

    No possible way that this article would be painting a picture of the Administration that is a bit leading?

    Did you even follow the article to it's source? www.revcom.us

    They do seem to hate everything about our (the US) society based on the various articles I scanned over going all the way back to 1996.

  4. #4
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    Come on now. There would be absolutely ZERO bias from the Revolutionary Communist Party of the USA?

    No possible way that this article would be painting a picture of the Administration that is a bit leading?

    Did you even follow the article to it's source? www.revcom.us

    They do seem to hate everything about our (the US) society based on the various articles I scanned over going all the way back to 1996.
    WOW, even the communists don't want him around. Thanks for pointing it out Reg, I thought it was just an article on the website about communists, I just followed the link to the audio from an email.

    Sorry folks, Bush is bad but he's NOT THAT BAD. ;)

    Lady Mod

  5. #5
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Lady Mod

    I have been thinking about this article, and while the article is from a site that destroys any credibility in my opinion. There are similar articles are all over the web, from less radical sources.

    I found this snip from one of them:

    "From 2001-2003, John Yoo helped write the Patriot Act and many of the Justice Department memos to the White House that expanded the powers of the executive to "manage a military campaign" by any means-including torture. Yoo's reasoning begins with the premise that the president's war powers cannot be legally or constitutionally constrained by international laws or treaties, the U.S. Congress or federal judiciary."

    I can agree that International Laws have Zero affect on the President's actions, IMHO, and Treaties are only valid until revoked by Congress. I personally think that Mr Yoo is way off base when he includes "the U.S. Congress and federal judiciary."

  6. #6
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Whatever the source, the snippet you pulled out of it is accurate. That is an accurate description of Yoo's reasoning regarding torture.

    Also, there's no sense in suggesting the source is "unreliable", because they provided the audio for anyone to hear for themselves.

    The transcript they provided in the article is accurate, which anyone who listens to the actual audio snippet can see for themselves.

    If we were just supposed to take this organizations word for it, yeah, I'd agree it's not a reliable source.

    However, we don't have to take their word for it. We have Yoo's torture memos. We have his recorded statement about smashing a child's testacles. It's all right there.

  7. #7
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    People, people, people!!! (and I'm using the term "people" very loosely) Get a grip! No reputable sources???...come on...really....It should be manditory to quote your source on such a volitile statement - but maybe I'm out of the loop - after all, I am Canadian.

  8. #8
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Quote Originally Posted by linda49
    People, people, people!!! (and I'm using the term "people" very loosely) Get a grip! No reputable sources???...come on...really....It should be manditory to quote your source on such a volitile statement - but maybe I'm out of the loop - after all, I am Canadian.
    I did quote the source, I supplied the original website where the article is. LOL, that's quoting it. I received a copy of the article in email from an old associate, but he had all the info except the actual audio link in the email.

    Lady Mod

  9. #9
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Who is Philip Watts?

  10. #10
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Quote Originally Posted by linda49
    Who is Philip Watts?
    The author of the article. But if you don't think that is enough, here's a google search result on the name:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

    He might also be one of these people. LOL. ;)

    Lady Mod

  11. #11
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Quote Originally Posted by linda49
    People, people, people!!! (and I'm using the term "people" very loosely) Get a grip! No reputable sources???...come on...really....It should be manditory to quote your source on such a volitile statement - but maybe I'm out of the loop - after all, I am Canadian.
    Once again, the source is John Yoo. Once again, there's nothing to debate about "sources". It's right from the horse's mouth.

  12. #12
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Whatever the source, the snippet you pulled out of it is accurate. That is an accurate description of Yoo's reasoning regarding torture.
    The article I pulled the snip from was from a main stream news paper, although I can not remember which one. I forgot to post the link when I posted my comment last night. There are many articles talking about the exchange with Yoo, and each one I read says basically the same thing. That is with exception of the article by the Revolutionary Communist Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    Also, there's no sense in suggesting the source is "unreliable", because they provided the audio for anyone to hear for themselves.

    The transcript they provided in the article is accurate, which anyone who listens to the actual audio snippet can see for themselves.

    If we were just supposed to take this organizations word for it, yeah, I'd agree it's not a reliable source.
    I did not suggest the source was "unreliable" I stated it was biased. The conclusion they try to draw from the comments is that President Bush thinks it is ok to torture children and even smashing a childs testicles. I claim they lose credibility with their article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    However, we don't have to take their word for it. We have Yoo's torture memos. We have his recorded statement about smashing a child's testacles. It's all right there.
    What is "right there" are Yoo's comments and Yoo's beliefs, not proof of what the President thinks.

    I continued to research the comments to find other articles covering the same exchange to see waht conclusion other writers had drawn.

    I have also said I believe that Yoo is way off base if he thinks that the U.S. Congress and federal judiciary have nothing to say about what the President does.

  13. #13
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    RegulationE,

    The article I pulled the snip from was from a main stream news paper, although I can not remember which one.
    Yes. But the SOURCE for that information is John Yoo himself. One needn't rely upon second hand news accounts. I've read his memos. The snippet from the article you posted is perfectly accurate. That's the point I was trying to make, because it seems people were trying to question your "source".

    I did not suggest the source was "unreliable" I stated it was biased. The conclusion they try to draw from the comments is that President Bush thinks it is ok to torture children and even smashing a childs testicles. I claim they lose credibility with their article.
    Okay, "biased", then. On the conclusion that "Bush thinks it is ok to torture children", that seems to be your own conclusion. I don't see them drawing that conclusion anywhere in the article.

    The article simply points out the fact that, "OK" or not, Yoo has stated that Bush has the legal authority to do so. They conclude that this is sick and twisted, but nowhere to they suggest Bush think's it would be "OK", simply that Yoo thinks it's "legal", which is the fact of the matter.

    What is "right there" are Yoo's comments and Yoo's beliefs, not proof of what the President thinks.
    And the article deals specifically with Yoo's comments and Yoo's beliefs, not with what the President thinks, except to say that Yoo is a Bush administration legal advisor.

    I have also said I believe that Yoo is way off base if he thinks that the U.S. Congress and federal judiciary have nothing to say about what the President does.
    Of course he's "off base"! That's quite an understatement. But I'm certainly glad you recognize this!

  14. #14
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Well as I said in the beginning above the article, this Yoo guy needs to be replaced.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  15. #15
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Well as I said in the beginning above the article, this Yoo guy needs to be replaced.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod
    Lady Mod,

    I believe he has been. he was referred to as "former" in a number of the articles I read. But if I am mistaken...yesterday would be too late for his replacement.

    Yirmeyahu,

    You are correct:

    "On the conclusion that "Bush thinks it is ok to torture children", that seems to be your own conclusion. I don't see them drawing that conclusion anywhere in the article."

    I was replacing "legal" with "ok" as I read through the article and that is my mistake.

    Now where was that cold and barren prison we where discussing on another thread? We could send Yoo there to "cool off" for a while ;)

  16. #16
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    Re: President Has Legal Power to Torture Children

    This Doug Cassel fellow seems to have special feelings about young boys' testicles. That alone is strange, but then the author of the article suggests that Yoo created this logic, when in fact, it was his opposition (Cassel). Yoo simply stated law that "we don't create treaties with terrorists"; he didn't try to put words into anyones mouth. Wheather you agree with Yoo, or not, the real culprit here is Cassel! What a villian!

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