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  1. #1
    Ponzi_Nemesis is offline Saving Peter from being robbed to pay Paul
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    12daily Pro meltdown!

    On Tuesday, December 27, 12daily Pro were desperately trying to clear their e-gold backlog. They decided, late in the evening, that they were simply not going to be able to pay everyone whose upgrades had expired on December 18 by midnight, i.e. within the promised 7 business days. Consequently, at 23:29, Charis posted the following text in the 12daily Pro members' area:
    From today, Dec. 27, all pending E-Gold payments (including those currently pending) will be paid within 10 business days. This new term will apply to any pending withdrawals that expired on December 18 and beyond
    Whatever other factors have been in play, this change has certainly caused many 12daily Pro members to either switch to StormPay, or to stop upgrading altogether. As a direct result, payment times for those who upgraded with e-gold have begun to side out of control.

    At the time of posting, the small hours of Wednesday, January 4, 12daily Pro have just started to pay out people whose upgrades expired on Dec 23, after taking over 2 days to pay out all the Dec 22 expired upgrades. Payment times are increasing as more and more fail to upgrade with e-gold, or at all, due to concerns over these delays.

    12daily Pro have made it clear on their forum that Jan 2 and Dec 26 are to be considered business days, as were Thanksgiving and Labor Day. This means that all upgrades expiring Dec 23, 24 and 25 will need to be paid by midnight on Friday, January 6 if this new 10 business days promise is to be honoured.

    What will they do? At the rate they are currently paying out they are not going to manage it. They might buy a day or two by putting StormPay payouts on hold and transferring cash across from there, but even that may not be enough, and would cause yet more panic. And, of course, any rule changes further delaying payment times, so soon after the first, would cause any remaining confidence in the program to fall through the floor.

    Expect an explosion of anti 12daily Pro protests very soon!

  2. #2
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ponzi_Nemesis
    On Tuesday, December 27, 12daily Pro were desperately trying to clear their e-gold backlog. They decided, late in the evening, that they were simply not going to be able to pay everyone whose upgrades had expired on December 18 by midnight, i.e. within the promised 7 business days. Consequently, at 23:29, Charis posted the following text in the 12daily Pro members' area:Whatever other factors have been in play, this change has certainly caused many 12daily Pro members to either switch to StormPay, or to stop upgrading altogether. As a direct result, payment times for those who upgraded with e-gold have begun to side out of control.

    At the time of posting, the small hours of Wednesday, January 4, 12daily Pro have just started to pay out people whose upgrades expired on Dec 23, after taking over 2 days to pay out all the Dec 22 expired upgrades. Payment times are increasing as more and more fail to upgrade with e-gold, or at all, due to concerns over these delays.

    12daily Pro have made it clear on their forum that Jan 2 and Dec 26 are to be considered business days, as were Thanksgiving and Labor Day. This means that all upgrades expiring Dec 23, 24 and 25 will need to be paid by midnight on Friday, January 6 if this new 10 business days promise is to be honoured.

    What will they do? At the rate they are currently paying out they are not going to manage it. They might buy a day or two by putting StormPay payouts on hold and transferring cash across from there, but even that may not be enough, and would cause yet more panic. And, of course, any rule changes further delaying payment times, so soon after the first, would cause any remaining confidence in the program to fall through the floor.

    Expect an explosion of anti 12daily Pro protests very soon!
    People know about you and the type of person you are.

  3. #3
    Ponzi_Nemesis is offline Saving Peter from being robbed to pay Paul
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by blood
    People know about you and the type of person you are.
    Hopefully they can see that I'm trying to save them from this scam. See my sig, and for more information see here and here (thanks JFK Lives) - for red flags see here (thanks Mikecouil).
    Is 12daily Pro a scam? Call the NC Consumer Protection Division at (919) 716-6400, which "works to educate consumers so that they can avoid problems" in a wide range of areas including "work-at-home schemes". They will be happy to discuss 12daily Pro with you because it is based in Charlotte, NC, i.e. it is their job to investigate schemes like this and decide if they are scams or not.

  4. #4
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    First let me say that I have no opinion one way or the other about 12DailyPro. I started coming to this board about 6 weeks ago solely to get information about freebie sites. Over the past few weeks, out of curiosity, I started reading some on the 12DailyPro posts...and would like to make an observation.

    I realize that you, Ponzi_Nemesis, and the other handful of folks that don't like 12DailyPro think you may be "helping" and "warning" people about this "scam". But to me, what you are really doing is giving them free advertising. With starting controversial topics such as: "12daily Pro meltdown!" you are actually making people like me (that came to the board with no interest in this type of thing), go to the 12DailyPro site to see what all of the fuss is about.

    Even negative advertising, is advertising and I know that it isn't your intent, but I'm sure that some of your posts have actually gotten 12DailyPro MORE members, rather than less. Again, I am not a member (or ever will be) of this site, but I also would have never even knew what the site was or visted it, if it wasn't for all of these posts.

    Just my thoughts.

    Rich
    Last edited by richs52; 01-04-2006 at 05:48 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by richs52
    First let me say that I have no opinion one way or the other about 12DailyPro. I started coming to this board about 6 weeks ago solely to get information about freebie sites. Over the past few weeks, out of curiosity, I started reading some on the 12DailyPro posts...and would like to make an observation.

    I realize that you, Ponzi_Nemesis, and the other handful of folks that don't like 12DailyPro think you may be "helping" and "warning" people about this "scam". But to me, what you are really doing is giving them free advertising. With starting controversial topics such as: "12daily Pro meltdown!" you are actually making people like me (that came to the board with no interest in this type of thing), go to the 12DailyPro site to see what all of the fuss is about.

    Even negative advertising, is advertising and I know that it isn't your intent, but I'm sure that some of your posts have actually gotten 12DailyPro MORE members, rather than less. Again, I am not a member (or ever will be) of this site, but I also would have never even knew what the site was or visted it, if it wasn't for all of these posts.

    Just my thoughts.

    Rich
    Sure made me want to sign-up!!! I jumped in with 3K back in Aug. I've made alot of $$$ since then! You see it is my money I wanted to take the change if it works great if I lose so be it! Thats the chance I take! I've never seen so many cry babies than right here! Waaa!!! Waaa!!!

  6. #6
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    I never regret upgrading my $6000 every 12 days.

    And I never will for the several upon several months to come.
    "Life is a scam. Get over your ignorance."

  7. #7
    Ponzi_Nemesis is offline Saving Peter from being robbed to pay Paul
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by RyzN
    I never regret upgrading my $6000 every 12 days.

    And I never will for the several upon several months to come.
    Are you upgrading with SP or e-gold? Care to tell how long your most recent payment took, i.e. when it expired and when you got the money?

    Thank you.
    Is 12daily Pro a scam? Call the NC Consumer Protection Division at (919) 716-6400, which "works to educate consumers so that they can avoid problems" in a wide range of areas including "work-at-home schemes". They will be happy to discuss 12daily Pro with you because it is based in Charlotte, NC, i.e. it is their job to investigate schemes like this and decide if they are scams or not.

  8. #8
    cito Guest

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    All these sorry ass losers that say they are getting paid by 12dailypro ponzi scam are blatantly lying here to fool newbies. They are getting paid in their big heads only newbies. If they would be getting paid they'd stay quiet but they are around like brainless morons promoting this scam to you so you invest and they can get their money out of that ponzi which is dead by the way. The ponzi died a week ago, not paying a soul. Now these morons hope that by you investing (losing) your money in that scam they can get (in their heads) their money out.

    That ponzi is history. Careful. Ponzi Nemesis is right. He is a respectable guy and have no interest in warning you, these cheerleaders do by having you invest in 12dp. Remember always that.
    Last edited by cito; 01-05-2006 at 07:36 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    To anyone who cares...

    After reading the many posts about 12dp.com I contacted the North Carolina Department Of Justice State Attorney Generals Office (Roy Cooper) to ask them their take on Lifeclicks LLC and 12dp.com. North Carolina is where Lifeclicks is registered. I have yet to receive a response, but will gladly share it (positive, negative or neutral) once received.

    I'm not saying that 12dp is a ponzi scheme (I'll let the NC State Attorney General hopefully speak to that), but I look at ponzi schemes like this... Most of us have seen city riots on TV (New Orleans being the latest example). People smashing windows and taking televisions, computers, etc. Whatever they can get their hands on. Lets say you didn't smash the window, you just took the TV. What’s the difference? "Judge, I'm innocent, I didn't start the ponzi (smash the window), I just took the money (grabbed a TV just lying there)". I know it's not exactly the same, but the concept is the same. If you know it's illegal, then you're guilty just as if you had smashed the window yourself. You're not the victim, if you lose your money, you're the perpetrator! But like I said earlier, let’s let the "smart guys" figure this out.
    As a member of the US Navy, trust me when I say I know how tight money can be at times. None of us are paid what we're worth! Prosperity is every man or woman’s dream, which is what most of us are looking for here. Just be careful in your endeavors for prosperity!
    I wish everyone here all the best for 2006 and beyond. Good luck and God Bless!

  10. #10
    cito Guest

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySubSailor
    To anyone who cares...

    After reading the many posts about 12dp.com I contacted the North Carolina Department Of Justice State Attorney Generals Office (Roy Cooper) to ask them their take on Lifeclicks LLC and 12dp.com. North Carolina is where Lifeclicks is registered. I have yet to receive a response, but will gladly share it (positive, negative or neutral) once received.

    I'm not saying that 12dp is a ponzi scheme (I'll let the NC State Attorney General hopefully speak to that), but I look at ponzi schemes like this... Most of us have seen city riots on TV (New Orleans being the latest example). People smashing windows and taking televisions, computers, etc. Whatever they can get their hands on. Lets say you didn't smash the window, you just took the TV. What’s the difference? "Judge, I'm innocent, I didn't start the ponzi (smash the window), I just took the money (grabbed a TV just lying there)". I know it's not exactly the same, but the concept is the same. If you know it's illegal, then you're guilty just as if you had smashed the window yourself. You're not the victim, if you lose your money, you're the perpetrator! But like I said earlier, let’s let the "smart guys" figure this out.
    As a member of the US Navy, trust me when I say I know how tight money can be at times. None of us are paid what we're worth! Prosperity is every man or woman’s dream, which is what most of us are looking for here. Just be careful in your endeavors for prosperity!
    I wish everyone here all the best for 2006 and beyond. Good luck and God Bless!

    And people who have participated in ponzies have been prosecuted before. This is nothing new. There is always a paper trail. The FBI and IRS has every single record of Intgold and E-gold when they were raided. They are looking for illegal activity on those records like money laundering, child porn, terrorism and guess what? The hyips and autosurfs are a big red flag in those records as they pass millions of transactions from hands to hands. Guess what, ponzi investors' names are in there and IRS has them. Sit tight!

    Thanks for the great job you are doing for our country, USnavy.

  11. #11
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    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by cito
    And people who have participated in ponzies have been prosecuted before. This is nothing new. There is always a paper trail. The FBI and IRS has every single record of Intgold and E-gold when they were raided. They are looking for illegal activity on those records like money laundering, child porn, terrorism and guess what? The hyips and autosurfs are a big red flag in those records as they pass millions of transactions from hands to hands. Guess what, ponzi investors' names are in there and IRS has them. Sit tight!

    Thanks for the great job you are doing for our country, USnavy.

    I hear you Cito! Submarines are bad enough! But a prison!! Not my idea of fun! Here is my question for everyone, especially those who have admitted that they know its going to fold. When it folds, do you care who loses their money? As long as its not you? Can you sleep at night thinking that way? Thats the same thing those guys at Enron though too I'll bet. As long as its not them losing money! I'm not rooting for 12dp's demise, that would mean a lot of people losing their money. I mean, if it were actually legit, that would be absolutely amazing. If Bill Gates or Warren Buffet signs up, then I'll be right behind them!! Hahaha. But lets face it, there's not enough money in the world to pay out those kind of results on a consistent basis. What if everyone signed up? No one could count that high!

    Going Deep.

  12. #12
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    148

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    US Navy, I think of autosurfers as being two types of people. The first are people who are too dumb to know what theyre getting into. The second are people too greedy to care, these are most people who post on here supporting them that I have seen. Yup, there are living breathing people who will rip YOU off and take YOUR money as long as theyre the ones who get it. And thats why something needs to be said about them.....

  13. #13
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    716

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by Collegestudent
    US Navy, I think of autosurfers as being two types of people. The first are people who are too dumb to know what theyre getting into. The second are people too greedy to care, these are most people who post on here supporting them that I have seen. Yup, there are living breathing people who will rip YOU off and take YOUR money as long as theyre the ones who get it. And thats why something needs to be said about them.....
    College,
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. There are others though, that I would say are ignorant (not necessarily dumb) to the truth or who just don't want to know the truth! My sister being the former. One night, about 7 years ago, I gave my mom a call (to check in, like most good sons should do ;) and she told me that my sister was really excited about a work at home business opportunity that she was getting involved with. My mom then told me that my sis was going to get paid to stuff envelopes at home! She'd get paid $X.XX per envelope and postage was provided!!! Sigh... A little about my sister. She is the most trusting person you could ever meet. She believes anything you tell her (why would anyone lie?). She's a good person with a great heart. My dilema, do I become the bad guy, the skeptic that doesn't believe in anything and tell her the truth? Or do I let her learn on her own. I told my mom to tell her what I knew, but say she heard it from "someone she knows" that kinda thing. I'm not sure if my sister believed her or not, but I'm sure when she finally found out she was getting scammed, it really broke her heart! I know she cried, I'm sure of it! Thats what makes me the maddest. It's not the money, its the building up of people's hopes and dreams, and then smashing them like a bug! Does that make sense? People recover, but it still sucks.
    To those who don't want to know the truth, who are too afraid to find out their being scammed, good luck guys, cause the truth's coming!

    When it comes to success, I believe there are at least 2 common denominators.. Work and good choices. If there's no work involved, but guarantees of success, its probably a bad choice. Which is what I think 12dp is.
    Take care.

    Going Deep.

  14. #14
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    Nov 2005
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    607

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    On this very subject, here's a little article I wrote some time back, which was posted on Talkgold, and reproduced on W.W.S.N. It was to do with P.I.P.S., but applies equally well to any HYIP:

    I think it may be helpful here to differentiate between the different levels of participants in this and other similar programs, and in doing so, perhaps introduce new, more useful and productive ways of people communicating with the different groups.

    It appears to me there are:

    a) The inner circle of PIPS people. Otherwise known as shills, cheerleaders etc. Totally aware of the illegalities and improbability of such schemes fulfilling their promises. They live by the Gordon Gecko creed "Greed is good, greed is right" They consider losing investors as fools and use well tried "excuses" and techniques to disguise their greed. They see themselves as clever "sharks" and the general populace as mere "guppies", there for the eating.

    b) "Savvy" people. Those who know the rules of high risks and techniques of HYIP programs. They generally get in for a planned length of time and get out, hopefully just in the nick of time.

    c)Desperate people. Usually genuine, if naive. These people see programs such as these as their one "big" chance to escape financial struggle. They make up the bulk of the participants in such schemes.

    d)Fools. Generally with an overinflated view of their own skills, they love to "big note" Easily conned by the inner circle.

    e)Contraries: Everyone knows at least one of these. You know the type, there's nothing they like more than a good verbal fight. You say black, they say it's white. Everyone in your office barracks for the home town football team, they will argue the merits of any other team BUT the home team. Arguing with this sort of person is as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike.
    They have no clue as to what they're saying, but they're sure as hell gonna say it.

    f) Genuine believers. They are out there. Usually disenchanted solid citizens, they are out there looking for "something" Many have come from MLM backgrounds. Many from "alternative" groups, cults or natural healing type backgrounds. Their previous experiences make them prime candidates for such HYIP schemes. They've been told repeatedly that there are "secrets" out there. They've been totally convinced that any shortcomings in their previous MLM or moneymaking schemes was their fault. They didn't work hard or long enough, didn't believe strongly enough, or "they"(banks, govts, corporations, drug companies etc) were responsible. They have often absorbed so many "positive thinking" books and seminars they will never give up again. To do so would mean rejecting every new age philosophy they've embraced. Failure of the programs equates to failure of every new belief they've adopted. Challenging their beliefs is tantamount to challenging their very being.

    There is an old truism in the type of marketing used by programs like PIPS that goes something like: ANY scam, plan or idea WILL work for approximately 10% of the people who try it and WILL NOT work for another 10%. The trick in making money is to use the testimonials of the 10% of those for whom it does work to "convince" the remaining 80% of the people exposed to the idea". Check out the many commercial weight loss programs to see the truism in action. Anyone watching the media could be convinced by the personal "success' stories featured that commercial weight loss programs are always successful. Further investigation shows that, in fact, 92% of people surveyed at 12 months after completion of such programs are either the same or heavier than before they started. Thus, the programs, weight loss, HYIP or whatever, are not lying, people can lose weight/make money. I would think at, or near, the same percentages would apply to HYIP schemes.

    To employ the same style of rebuttal on all of these different classes of participant is pointless and will only lead to the frustration being shown on both sides of the current argument. It has to be "different horses for different courses".

    It is worthy to note also that to run a "succesful" HYIP type program, techniques other than the obvious money "system" are used.
    Many of these techniques are drawn from other fields: psychology, marketing, cult building and positive thinking are but a few.

    Understanding these techniques is necessary to understand the apparent lack of logic and common sense being displayed when programs such as this one are headed down the proverbial toilet. Remember, this "business" has been around for a long time. Techniques have been tried, refined, revamped, rebadged and retried. Previous experiences have been gone over with fine toothed combs. Psychological triggers identified and targetted. Scripts exist that have been put together word by word to ensure the success of such schemes. Smart operators know exactly what they're gonna say and do way in advance of when they act. Go back and check histories. Most "successful" (in making money for the promoters) schemes are 3rd or 4th tries for them.

    It is relatively easily to pre emptively condition the targets of such schemes to be uncritical when things start the downhill slide.

    Witness how many schemes have such triggers as "The banks don't want you to know this and will try to stop us" Banks are the natural enemies of most people now days. So, when the promoters do something illegal and the banks baulk..BINGO !!!
    They condition their potential members with similar prompts: "When you go back to your family and friends armed with this secret knowledge, be warned, they are not as smart as you and will try and convince you you're mad" So, when they do go to their families, and the families do make the observation, as they should, BINGO !!!!
    They play on peoples natural tendency to want to be "included" Notice how words like "family" and "us" are freqently used. And who is gonna believe that their "family" would rip them off?

    And they play to peoples egos. How many of these programs offer some sort of "special" knowledge, available to only a chosen few? Not a bad combo: "We'll make you rich and special"

    To use the language of the scheme script writers it may just be time that the "regulars" in such places as Talkgold "add value" to their efforts to expose scammers and wrong doers by getting together and working out combined, targetted strategies to continue the invaluable work already being done.

    Arguing with the inner circle, fools and contraries is pointless. They love it. You're giving them a forum they don't deserve.
    In fact, the "good" scheme operators use forums such as this in their premptive conditioning. "Them against us" is a poweful weapon in their armoury of tricks.

    As for the "80%", be gentle with them. Be aware of the psychology being used on them "before", and how your words can act as triggers in favour of the scheme operators.
    And, equally, be gentle with them after.
    Everyone knows of the lengths to which a drowning person will go to save themselves, even as far as endangering rescuers.

    Make no mistake, these people are drowning, and are hurting.
    They deserve a completely different approach if they are to be helped, if not saved.

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    148

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySubSailor
    College,
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. There are others though, that I would say are ignorant (not necessarily dumb) to the truth or who just don't want to know the truth! My sister being the former. One night, about 7 years ago, I gave my mom a call (to check in, like most good sons should do ;) and she told me that my sister was really excited about a work at home business opportunity that she was getting involved with. My mom then told me that my sis was going to get paid to stuff envelopes at home! She'd get paid $X.XX per envelope and postage was provided!!! Sigh... A little about my sister. She is the most trusting person you could ever meet. She believes anything you tell her (why would anyone lie?). She's a good person with a great heart. My dilema, do I become the bad guy, the skeptic that doesn't believe in anything and tell her the truth? Or do I let her learn on her own. I told my mom to tell her what I knew, but say she heard it from "someone she knows" that kinda thing. I'm not sure if my sister believed her or not, but I'm sure when she finally found out she was getting scammed, it really broke her heart! I know she cried, I'm sure of it! Thats what makes me the maddest. It's not the money, its the building up of people's hopes and dreams, and then smashing them like a bug! Does that make sense? People recover, but it still sucks.
    To those who don't want to know the truth, who are too afraid to find out their being scammed, good luck guys, cause the truth's coming!

    When it comes to success, I believe there are at least 2 common denominators.. Work and good choices. If there's no work involved, but guarantees of success, its probably a bad choice. Which is what I think 12dp is.
    Take care.

    Going Deep.
    Hey US Navy. I completely agree with you. I do think some autosurfers are too naive or trusting and maybe didn't research the program at first like they should have. And that's okay for them, I guess, but you should still look at anything you sink money into. However these are the same people that will end up getting royally conned when the autosurf collapses. That's why people have to get the word out about these garbage can programs, that they WILL take your money, theyre NOT led by nice innocent people that want to make you rich, and some promoters are just as bad as the owners.

    By the way that was a great article littleroundman. Says everything.

  16. #16
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    1

    Re: 12daily Pro meltdown!

    As with any program, there will always be those who will always try to beat the system (Kill the golden goose that lays the golden eggs, if you will). Those that are caught will instantly call it a scam. I can only assume that some of those posting something negative have endured that process. Other are just repeating what they have heard. Kind of like getting financial advice from someone who has not dug themselves out of debt, a place non of us like to be.

    If there is a problem with getting paid it is either that you have been caught cheating the system or it is something out of the control of 12dp and in the hands of the paying institution.

    I suggest that anyone having a problem with a particular program provide UNDESPUTED FACTS to thier readers rather than unleashing thier PERSONAL attack for thier readers.

    I am recently with 12dp but have done my due dilegence before entering through the portal of financial gain. Let us put something into perspective. If I were to lose money in the stock market, does the stock market automatically become a scam?

    I am conducting a new conference call to answer many questions we all have on Sunday evenings. Feel free to email me at [email protected] for the conference number.

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