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  1. #81
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    Jan 2006
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    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    According to the link I provided :

    http://www.crochetandknitting.com/verify.htm

    Program Inception: May 13, 2005

    I do know people who are members and they are making money.

    So far everything points to 12DP as being legit.

    Once again there has been lots of reserch done on them (see link provided).

    In my opinion 12DP is legit, or at least reserch shows so.
    The link you provided is (which I did bother to look at before I posted my question) contains one of two different dates that I have seen bandied about. The other was later in the year, if memory serves.

    The fact that people are making money isn't in dispute with me. The link you provided contains information that I have seen in several different places...copied verbatim from one place to the next.

    Not exactly convincing either way....could you elaborate on the "research" you've done? What exactly does it consist of?
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #82
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    280

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zendi
    The link you provided is (which I did bother to look at before I posted my question) contains one of two different dates that I have seen bandied about. The other was later in the year, if memory serves.

    The fact that people are making money isn't in dispute with me. The link you provided contains information that I have seen in several different places...copied verbatim from one place to the next.

    Not exactly convincing either way....could you elaborate on the "research" you've done? What exactly does it consist of?

    I do not see what all the fuss is here.
    I have already provided information (proven factual) by the Online Investor's Cooperative (OIC).

    Also you can see the web site of Elaine F Marshall (Secretary of State of North Carolina) on the Department of the Secretary of State Web Site located here : http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/cor...temId=7820076#

    This clearly shows that Lifeclicks, LLC (which is who own 12DP) is regestered as a Legal LLC (Limited Liability Company).
    It also shows they are Currently-Active as a "Legal LLC" which by the way so far is much more substantiating than any information YOU have provided.

    So far this information as well as the reserch provided by the Online Investor's Cooperative will show without a doubt that 12DP is so far found to in fact be a "LEGAL" and legitiment business.

    Furthermore please see the general OIC Due Diligence form.
    This form, which outlines the OIC's DD process and requirements, is sent at the appropriate time to program admins to read, review, and reply to with information.

    Note the high standard a program must meet to be verified according to the OIC. Because of all they require, the chance of any program becoming verified and also being a ponzi or a scam is incredibly unlikely. However, they do not claim to be without error: there is always risk in investing, whether HYIP, autosurf, or stocks, or even treasury bonds. They work to minimize risk as much as possible - verification of any program is a very, very high and rare mark to achieve.

    The Online Investor’s Cooperative (OIC)

    Due Diligence Process and Criteria

    I. Process

    Below you will find a comprehensive list of the OIC’s Due Diligence criteria. In recognition of the intensive rigor of this list, we do not require the satisfaction of every criterion: some information may not be immediately at-hand, while other information may seem too sensitive to disclose. As the Administration of a large body of individual investors, operating a forum and fielding many e-mails about different programs each day, we recognize the right to privacy and the necessity for caution in divulging information. Nevertheless, our responsibility to our members is to authenticate the claims of your program, and so some criteria are indispensible.

    To balance preservation of your security with our acquisition of the information necessary to confirm your program, we propose a back-and-forth DD process.

    1) Review the following criteria. Afterward, determine what information you will submit, keeping in mind that any and all information will be held in the strictest confidence. Much of this information will require transmission by mail or courier to our physical location.

    2) Indicate in this Microsoft Word file which criteria you will be satisfying. Save the document, send it via e-mail as an attachment to [email protected] .

    3) OIC Administration (myself) will review the list of requirements you will fulfill. You will then receive a reply indicating what more, if anything, is necessary in order comply with our minimum standard of program verification.

    4) To conclude this exchange, please reply with information on when and how you will be transmitting your DD materials.

    Upon receipt of your DD package, we will review its contents and attempt to independently verify any included information we feel is necessary. Note that this does not entail an invasive process, and the integrity of the anonymous nature of your information remains intact throughout.

    5) Following review, we will then contact you with our results. If you have submitted the minimum requirements and your information has received independent corroboration (where possible and applicable), you will be “confirmed” by the OIC Administration.

    6) Following this, news of your program’s Confirmation will be disseminated to OIC membership. Most all OIC members look forward to notice of Confirmed programs; in fact, many hold e-gold in reserve for investment in newly Confirmed programs! Any Confirmed program is recognized within OIC membership as legitimate, and thus, rare. Program Administrators can expect increased interest and an influx of upgraded memberships in their program as a result.



    II. Criteria

    A. Identity – Personal

    1. Names and notarized ID’s of Administrative personnel (including owners, managers, partners, principal shareholders, etc.). Also, provide notarized passport copies (may be scanned).

    2. Names and notarized ID’s of trader(s) and/or other fund management personnel. Also, notarized passport copies (may be scanned).


    B. Identity - Location

    1. Physical Address(es) of personal residence(s) of Administrators and traders.

    2. Hard copy (may be scanned and e-mailed) of a utility bill not less than 90 calendar days old, verifying place(s) of residence.

    3. Provide landline home phone numbers. These numbers will not be called without prior consultation and arrangement.

    4. Physical Address(es) of site of business (if different than above).

    5. Business lease office phone number and contact information (if applicable)

    6. Phone number (landline) of site of business (if different than above).


    C. Identity - Other

    1. OIC/Program Admin telephone meeting

    2. OIC/Program Admin personal meeting (if arrangements are possible)

    3. Provide personal character reference from an individual who is aware of your program and/or trading career.


    D. Corporate Documentation

    1. If any type of company, provide scanned certificate of Incorporation in
    relevant jurisdiction or territory (to be verified with registrar of companies).

    2. Provide articles of organization and company by-laws.

    3. Provide any other applicable corporate documents.


    E. Financials & Trading

    1. General details on trading/investment portfolio: what programs, brokerage firms are utilized to realize profits? How much capital is under management? Does your program have a reserve, and if so, what is its current percentage of all funds under management? Etc.

    2. Provide trader’s credentials: How many years of trading experience? What type of trading? How did said trader(s) become affiliated with the program presently under consideration?

    3. Provide professional reference(s) for trader(s).

    4. Provide recent (last 90 calendar days) trading reports or records showing trading/investment activities. Also, provide cumulative trading history for life of program (documents will be checked for authenticity).

    5. Provide bank reference (where ever funds held/deposited/withdrawn from).

    6. If program is FOREX-based, please review and supply the following
    information:

    a) What percentage of managed funds in trade?

    b) What leverage is used?

    c) What commission/percentage of profit is payable to trader(s) and when
    is it deducted?

    d) Availability of LPOA

    e) Is the software platform in use automated or manual? Platform Name?

    f) Largest drawdown in trading history (for current program only)?

    g) Are trailing stop-losses used?

    h) What risk-management strategies or protocol are in place?

    i) Ease of capital transactions (deposits/withdrawals) with broker?

    [NOTE: this brief questionnaire is for Forex traders is followed up with a much more in-depth and sophisticated Q&A]

    F. Miscellaneous

    Please provide any further information or documentation you feel will be beneficial to our assessment of your program’s background, integrity, and future prospects.



    III. Confidentiality
    OIC Administration would like to make it’s management of the information you provide completely explicit: none of the information provided in response to the above Due Diligence regimen will be disclosed to any third party, including but not limited to general members of the OIC, personal acquaintances, other program administrators, monitoring sites, forums, newsletter subscribers or owners, etc. We strive to maintain 100% confidentiality in return for the unique privilege of access to your information. Additionally, all information received is for informational purposes only, and will not be utilized to blackmail, extort, defraud or to profiteer from. Information on OIC Administration is available for verification, given upon request.



    Like I stated, so far all information points to 12DP being legit.
    As far as calling a program a "Scam" because you have seen two conflicting dates, I hardly think that is grounds to qualify something as as "Scam".

    Regards,

    P.S. Reserch credit http://future4me.com/

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    243

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    I do not see what all the fuss is here.
    I have already provided information (proven factual) by the Online Investor's Cooperative (OIC).
    No fuss, mate. I'm simply making the effort to distinguish factual information from fictions, and credible sources from questionable ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Also you can see the web site of Elaine F Marshall (Secretary of State of North Carolina) on the Department of the Secretary of State Web Site located here : http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/cor...temId=7820076#

    This clearly shows that Lifeclicks, LLC (which is who own 12DP) is regestered as a Legal LLC (Limited Liability Company).
    It also shows they are Currently-Active as a "Legal LLC" which by the way so far is much more substantiating than any information YOU have provided.
    The fact that they are a registered LLC is not a testimony to their legitimacy, in the sense of their being a scam or not. Becoming an LLC is not a difficult process. I could go out and aquire that title tomorrow.

    And, my dear person, I am not the one making declarations as to the validity of this company. I am on the audience who is being educated here. Please keep that in mind in any further discourse with me. You should also know that when I *do* present you with information that I declare factual, I shall happily provide my verifiable sources for such.


    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    So far this information as well as the reserch provided by the Online Investor's Cooperative will show without a doubt that 12DP is so far found to in fact be a "LEGAL" and legitiment business.
    I did, upon further surfing, find and join the forum that contains the Online Investor's Cooperative thread. I was rather disappointed to see that the OIC is nothing more than a message board. Not exactly the sort of endorsement I would base a defense on, were I you. Certainly the best and ulitimate findings would come from a source that actually has the final say in all things legal...A gov't investigation would certainly bear that out, and hold considerably more weight than a message board.

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Furthermore please see the general OIC Due Diligence form.
    This form, which outlines the OIC's DD process and requirements, is sent at the appropriate time to program admins to read, review, and reply to with information.
    Aye...I've seen it. Not overly impressive to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Note the high standard a program must meet to be verified according to the OIC. Because of all they require, the chance of any program becoming verified and also being a ponzi or a scam is incredibly unlikely.
    I do not argue that they seem to try their best. There are a few things that bother me about their method. When I have more time, I will go into them with you. For the moment let me just say that I personally do not recognize the verification of OIC as they are naught but another message board. I do give them credit for having compiled as much detailed information as 12dp would allow them.

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Like I stated, so far all information points to 12DP being legit. As far as calling a program a "Scam" because you have seen two conflicting dates, I hardly think that is grounds to qualify something as as "Scam".
    Quite right. However, I have not stated that 12dp is a scam because of two different dates. In fact, I don't believe I have categorically stated in any of my posts to date that 12dp is a scam. My post was made in an attempt to resolve the two dates. Please re-read the post.
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    280

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Look, I am not trying to engage you or anyone else, all I am saying is that there are people out there that have done a thorough investigation into 12DP, and so far all the information gathered does indeed show 12DP to be a ligimita program.

    I don't know why someone (NOT Talking about YOU) would go to such trouble to try to ruin the name of a company (in fact several posts by that person do not "jive"), unless there was a personal vandeta.

    12DP has, does, and seemingly will continue to be a ligitimate company (Investigations will show).

    I am NOT a member of 12DP nor do I plan on becoming one as "that is NOT my cup of tea".
    I am only saying that I have seen enough reserch and information to show they are legit.

    Regards,

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    243

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Look, I am not trying to engage you or anyone else, all I am saying is that there are people out there that have done a thorough investigation into 12DP, and so far all the information gathered does indeed show 12DP to be a ligimita program.

    I don't know why someone (NOT Talking about YOU) would go to such trouble to try to ruin the name of a company (in fact several posts by that person do not "jive"), unless there was a personal vandeta.

    12DP has, does, and seemingly will continue to be a ligitimate company (Investigations will show).

    I am NOT a member of 12DP nor do I plan on becoming one as "that is NOT my cup of tea".
    I am only saying that I have seen enough reserch and information to show they are legit.

    Regards,
    Clearly, you and I have a very, very different idea of "research" and standard for which that should be applied. You cannot correctly predict the outcome of an investigation, as one hasn't been done. Based on looking at the same information you have, *I* could not in good conscience use that information to give 12dp any credit, good or bad. Informative perhaps, but proof of being 100% above board, it is not.

    Since 12dp refused to disclose their other means of income in any specific
    t e r m s, only an official investigation will bear that out.
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    108

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by hdmarketing
    Look, I am not trying to engage you or anyone else, all I am saying is that there are people out there that have done a thorough investigation into 12DP, and so far all the information gathered does indeed show 12DP to be a ligimita program.

    I don't know why someone (NOT Talking about YOU) would go to such trouble to try to ruin the name of a company (in fact several posts by that person do not "jive"), unless there was a personal vandeta.

    12DP has, does, and seemingly will continue to be a ligitimate company (Investigations will show).

    I am NOT a member of 12DP nor do I plan on becoming one as "that is NOT my cup of tea".
    I am only saying that I have seen enough reserch and information to show they are legit.

    Regards,

    Yes 12dp is legit. You are right..And I applaud you on the positive research you have done. I have done my research on 12dp a long time ago. And you have some people that are still trying to find something wrong with 12dp. Or the research you have done is just not good enough for them. "Well I be Dam."They think they are the expert when it comes to investigating this program or any other program for that matter. Give me a break. And you have others who are simply trying to destroy the name and business. Some people will go to great lengths in trying to bring this program down. Good job....:)
    Last edited by uniqueinvest; 01-21-2006 at 10:29 PM.

  7. #87
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    Jan 2006
    Posts
    243

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    I suppose only time will tell, really. Well, that and an gov't investigation.

    For those more well versed than myself in these matters, does anyone know of a like program with integrity issues that has been investigated by authorities (the kind with badges, not the self-proclaimed sort) that has been declared "not-a-ponzi"?
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    148

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Zendi:

    A program similar to autosurfs that HAS been busted: look up Fred Srock.

    A program similar to autosurfs that has been in court and proven to be legal: none that I know of.

  9. #89
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    Jan 2006
    Posts
    243

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Collegestudent
    Zendi:

    A program similar to autosurfs that HAS been busted: look up Fred Srock.

    A program similar to autosurfs that has been in court and proven to be legal: none that I know of.

    Cheers, mate... ;)
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    243

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Collegestudent
    Zendi:

    A program similar to autosurfs that HAS been busted: look up Fred Srock.

    A program similar to autosurfs that has been in court and proven to be legal: none that I know of.
    Very interesting, College. I've only done a brief read, mind you..but I wonder if this Oracle International could be retained to investigate 12dp as well. I mean, if the owners of 12dp have set this business up in a fashion that is above reproach, then it could only be to their benefit to have a qualified independent investigator declare them as such, yeah?
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  11. #91

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Dad
    Haha to everyone here. If you look in my other posts a relative of mine is a former ATTORNEY who I consulted with about these and he confirmed they are ponzis... so all you armchair wannabe lawyers can shut up now.

    Well now I can rest, knowing that you know a "former" attorney who confirmed they are ponzis.

    By the way, why is your relative a "former" attorney?

    Did he retire after learning how much money he could really make with autosurfing?

    Attorneys are well known for bilking their clients out of thousands of dollars. And in most cases, produce dismal results for their clients. Last but not least, attorneys make sure they receive ALL fees in advance first.

    Wow, that sounds just like the Ponzis you keep referring to.
    Last edited by ponzi nemesis nemesis; 01-25-2006 at 10:15 AM.

  12. #92
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    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by ponzi nemesis nemesis
    Attorneys are well known for bilking their clients out of thousands of dollars. And in most cases, produce dismal results for their clients. Last but not least, attorneys make sure they receive ALL fees in advance first.

    Wow, that sounds just like the Ponzis you keep referring to.
    1) I should like to see the statistics on what you consider to be "most cases".

    2) Not all attorney's "make sure they receive ALL fees in advance first". Ask any personal injury attorney.

    3) Someone correct me if I am wrong, but attorney's that do collect retainers and any advanced fees aren't paying those out to other client's in order to stay in business.

    4) Attorney's are governed and regulated by state and federal law. Misconduct can result in their losing their license to practice for a period of time or indefinately.

    Bad analogy.
    "At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    170

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by ponzi nemesis nemesis
    Well now I can rest, knowing that you know a "former" attorney who confirmed they are ponzis.

    By the way, why is your relative a "former" attorney?
    Sometimes, when people have worked for many years and have enough to live comfortably for the remainder of their life, they do this thing called retire.

    Quote Originally Posted by ponzi nemesis nemesis
    Did he retire after learning how much money he could really make with autosurfing?
    Don't make me laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by ponzi nemesis nemesis
    Attorneys are well known for bilking their clients out of thousands of dollars. And in most cases, produce dismal results for their clients. Last but not least, attorneys make sure they receive ALL fees in advance first.

    Wow, that sounds just like the Ponzis you keep referring to.
    Yup, you're correct. Each and every attorney that exists is a spawn of Satan. This is obviously different from ponzi autosurf owners, who just want to bring wealth fairly to all their members.. that IS what they're doing, right? Refer to Zendi's post.

  14. #94

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Quote Originally Posted by RememberMyName
    First of all im quite slow and did'nt manage to pick up the reason and explaination on how 12dp ponzi is a scam and how you are proven right.
    I am interested in knowing more by understanding it clearly. Please help me by giving me a clearer picture. Thank you.

    Next, i understand that 12dp has profited its members and i congratulate them for puting their investment in them. However it will be more interesting
    and useful if we find out how they make money out of this. At this point,
    I think i may know how 12dp make money but im still doing research on it.


    Last of all, thank you to all who have contribute information here, i find it very useful and engaging information and opinions.
    Yeah, sitting back and watching is a good way to do due diligence/research so....I am of the mind that Charis Johnson was behind a lot of the autosurf scams out there eg Amigosurf, 15dailypro, GCIsurf, Rainsurf, 1dollarpts etc and I am certain that this was another one of her "other income streams"

    Now, Rainsurf, one of the above mentioned websites, was made to look as though it had been run by Asians with a picture of Rain (an Asian pop singer) on the site, the domain was registered to a North Carolina address, which I found odd....Rainsurf paid it's members for a while and then disappeared suddenly. They stated on their website that they had received a letter from Charis Johnson's Attorney to cease and desist as they had stolen (allegedly) virtually all the text from 12dailypro's website (breached their copyright), so Charis claimed that Rainsurf were a bunch of crooks and tried to discredit the Rainsurf admin. Well, it would happen that after Rainsurf ran with members' money, they diverted their domain to 12dailypro's, Charis stated that the Rainsurf people had done this deliberately to frame her.

    To understand this story well, it would appear that Charis suspened the accounts of 99 or more Singaporean members (allegedly) because they had been cheating the program. These members were no doubt blamed for the alleged DDOS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks on 12dailypro's website and for running Rainsurf. (Charis never provided any proof to back up this story of the so called cheats, we had to take her word for it).

    Now, Charis has proven herself a liar an uncountable amount of times, so I took this info with a pinch of salt. A few months later, and as at today, the Rainsurf domain still forwards to 12dailypro....See for yourself at www.rainsurf.com

    When the site loads up, at the bottom of the browser the domain says "waiting for www.12dailypro.com....." and eventually loads into 12dailypro's domain.

    Considering Charis claims she had nothing to do with Rainsurf, and stated that she would contact the domain hosts for www.rainsurf.com, she obviously never got round to it, or it skipped her mind.

    The conclusion is that Charis Johnson was/could have been the perpetrator behind a lot of the autosurf websites, which scammed and disappeared. These scams would have brought in a few thousand dollars needed to sustain the 12% return promised by Charis for the 8-9 months the program ran for.
    Last edited by BAILEYSCREAMS_REVENGE; 03-08-2006 at 07:36 PM.
    Karma is a Biatch! :yelcutelaughA:

    Con artists revealed as the criminals they are! freakB:

    The IGNORE feature is the best answer for a FOOL!


  15. #95

    Re: 12dailypro.com ponzi scam. OH MY OH MY! Cito proven right again and again!

    Great Find!!!!!! That is awesome Info! I wonder how many more are being pointed the same way now?

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