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  1. #17
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    To state that Jesus was mocking them would seem to say he commited a sin. By mocking you mean, made fun of, a sin for sure. Since Jesus was without sin your statment is incorrect.
    Jesus responds with mock incredulity: "Because I said unto thee I saw thee under the fig tree believest thou? Thou shalt see greater things than these,"...

    Main Entry: 1mock Pronunciation: 'mäk, 'mok
    Function: verb
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French mocquer
    transitive senses
    1 : to treat with contempt or ridicule : DERIDE
    2 : to disappoint the hopes of
    3 : DEFY, CHALLENGE

    I used mock in the sense of to defy or challenge, certainly disappointing the hopes of the murderous crowd. Again, you make a non-issue an issue - for what purpose I wonder.

    Do you seek truth? Do you want to WAR within these threads? Remember the first casualty of any war is truth.

  2. #18
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    I am confused as to how Jesus referencing the Old Testament to make a point is mocking. I see it as him reminding the Jews of a Law they seem to have over looked. Do you realy believe Jesus would confirm an untruth to make a point?

  3. #19
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Slayer
    Jesus responds with mock incredulity: "Because I said unto thee I saw thee under the fig tree believest thou? Thou shalt see greater things than these,"...
    Might you please give Book, chapter, and Verse? As I read it hear it would be very easy to think Jesus is asking if they believe it is possible for him to see them in vision, saying he can do much better than just see them any way he chooses but can raise the dead. I would like to put it in its proper context.

    Thanks

  4. #20
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    Might you please give Book, chapter, and Verse? As I read it hear it would be very easy to think Jesus is asking if they believe it is possible for him to see them in vision, saying he can do much better than just see them any way he chooses but can raise the dead. I would like to put it in its proper context.

    Thanks
    My pleasure. We should have a desire for objective truth, whatever this truth may turn out to be for us.

    John 1:
    V-47, "Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him,
    Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"
    V-48, "Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus
    answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou
    wast under the fig tree, I saw thee."

    Nathanael is startled because how did Jesus know that he was an Israelite? Nathanael was under the fig tree literally and spiritually. Israel is the fig tree symbolically and that is the teaching Nathaniel was under at the time. Of course, literally Philip had found him sitting under the fig tree, as well.

    V-49, "Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."

    Nathanael suddenly realized it is true, this is Messiah! He
    calls Him Rabbi (teacher), but quickly adds that Jesus is the Son of God, King of Israel. This revelation of Nathanael was similar to the time when Jesus asked the disciples, who He was and Peter said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God". This is not a son, but the Son. He says in essence, it is right for you to rule.


    V-50, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these."

    More thread reference:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son

  5. #21
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    The whole passage from John is problematic, for a few reasons--the stoning and the idea that Jews were looking for a Christ--different critter entirely to a messiah--both of which sound off to me. As does Jesus saying that Psalms are halacha.

    I did send it off to a friend who's a Christian pastor and an expert in koine Greek, so maybe he can shed some light on it from a Christian POV.

    Not that that's likely to change anyone's beliefs, but I am curious.

  6. #22
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Slayer
    My pleasure. We should have a desire for objective truth, whatever this truth may turn out to be for us.

    John 1:
    V-47, "Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him,
    Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"
    V-48, "Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus
    answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou
    wast under the fig tree, I saw thee."

    Nathanael is startled because how did Jesus know that he was an Israelite? Nathanael was under the fig tree literally and spiritually. Israel is the fig tree symbolically and that is the teaching Nathaniel was under at the time. Of course, literally Philip had found him sitting under the fig tree, as well.

    V-49, "Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."

    Nathanael suddenly realized it is true, this is Messiah! He
    calls Him Rabbi (teacher), but quickly adds that Jesus is the Son of God, King of Israel. This revelation of Nathanael was similar to the time when Jesus asked the disciples, who He was and Peter said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God". This is not a son, but the Son. He says in essence, it is right for you to rule.


    V-50, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these."

    More thread reference:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son

    From what I see here it would seem I was right and he was amazed Jesus saw him under a fig tree in vision and Jesus told him he would see much greater miracles than this. I am confused, how is this mocking?

  7. #23
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    I am very interested in knowing how many of you Christians explain John 10:34. This is when Jesus is being accused of blasphemy by the Jews, and his answer to them was John 10:34 “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”

    The law he was referring to was of course the Old Testament. Psalms 82:6 reads “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high.”

    There are only a few religions that teach we are literal children of God and therefore gods our selves. Do you say that Jesus lied when he said this? Jesus says he said it, stating that he is the author, “I said, Ye are gods.” Are you going to say Jesus took this out of context? Are you going to say Jesus was wrong?

    I would like very much to hear how you explain this. The Gospel of Jesus has been changed much over the years since his death, but his words never change and in them we can find his truth and his love.

    So I don't misunderstand this... you're saying that Jesus said that he was the author of what was in the old testament, right? and you're wondering how could that be since he wasn't around then, right?

    If that's what you're asking then the answer is simple. JESUS IS GOD but in the flesh form. They're the same. Just as water can be liquid, ice, or vapor... God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.



    PS... I didn't read ANY of this thread... only the first post.. so if anyone else's already mentioned this, I'm sorry, I didn't know\
    I do not believe that MLM/Network Marketing is a bad business model. I believe it's the shady people in MLM that make it LOOK bad. As long as you work hard, run your business ethically, and work with ethical people, then MLM can help you reach your financial goals... whether it's just to make extra money on the side or a full-time income.

    "Never argue with an idiot. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience."

    Pink Zebra Sprinkles

  8. #24
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Nope--you missed the point entirely.

  9. #25
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    Your idea that god means judge does not work in this case; Jesus was being accused of blasphemy. Nowhere did the Jews accuse him of calling himself a judge. Blasphemy is calling one self God, or a God. Many churches call this the only unforgivable sin. This is a clear demonstration of the true teaching of Christ that has been turned around one hundred and eighty degrees.

    Jesus claims to be the author of the Law, the Psalms. He is stating that this law says all men are gods. If you are a Christian then you have to accept the words of Christ and his interpretation of them. The fact that we are indeed gods changes much and explains even more. Jesus confirmed this idea when he said that we could move mountains if we had enough faith.

    Over the history of religion it was nothing the leaders of the Church wanted their members to understand. Today few people even notice this verse in the Bible (John 10:34), they have been so trained to believe what they have been told rather that what Christ said. Satan was released into this world long before us and had lots of time to plant his deceptions. I would hope that some might read this post and ponder it and decide for them selves if they will follow Jesus Christ or follow man.
    what's your point!?a god is a spirit.a man is a soul.operating a spirit(host).so yes,all men are gods.(and all spirits judge by their nature)(and thus a man judgeth by what spirit he is posessed by).but what are you tryin to convey here!?WWJD!?hehe!!he died!!so all could live.follow him.is that what you mean!?or are you on a kick-ass rant!?just askin.if i'm outa context ...nevermind.hehe!and hey lizardslayer!i seen your avatar(laughed out loud!) on an hyip forum somwhere!?just a coincidence!?hehe!!
    Last edited by lexx; 01-03-2006 at 11:31 AM.

  10. #26
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    what's your point!?a god is a spirit.a man is a soul.operating a spirit(host).so yes,all men are gods.(and all spirits judge by their nature)(and thus a man judgeth by what spirit he is posessed by).but what are you tryin to convey here!?WWJD!?hehe!!he died!!so all could live.follow him.is that what you mean!?or are you on a kick-ass rant!?just askin.if i'm outa context ...nevermind.hehe!and hey lizardslayer!i seen your avatar(laughed out loud!) on an hyip forum somwhere!?just a coincidence!?hehe!!
    Hi Lexx,

    Thanks, the avatar was meant to amuse, a picture is worth 1K words. I came here looking for information on a marketing scam. I was sucked in on a discussion and found some interesting folks here. I don’t inhabit any other forum’s except for an occasional /.

    Part of the problem with this thread is there are folks that are trying to resize the pond.

    Kids start out life talking about how they want to be astronauts, or the president, or Bill Gates. They see a vast world of limitless possibility and imagine themselves filling up an enormous space within it. As people age, they start to realize that they most likely won't be a Michael Jordan or a Bill Gates, and their response is not to be content being a small fish in a big pond -- it's to reduce the size of the pond that is 'important'.

    When someone opens a discussion with statements like, “Do you say that Jesus lied when he said this? Jesus says he said it, stating that he is the author, “I said, Ye are gods.” Are you going to say Jesus took this out of context? Are you going to say Jesus was wrong?”

    They are not looking for answers, they want to reduce the scope of the important world, until they are a big fish. Anything outside of the scope of their reduced point can’t be considered, because their agenda was set from the beginning. This is not helpful for them or others.

    - LS

  11. #27
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    I am very interested in knowing how many of you Christians explain John 10:34. This is when Jesus is being accused of blasphemy by the Jews, and his answer to them was John 10:34 “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”

    The law he was referring to was of course the Old Testament. Psalms 82:6 reads “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high.”

    There are only a few religions that teach we are literal children of God and therefore gods our selves. Do you say that Jesus lied when he said this? Jesus says he said it, stating that he is the author, “I said, Ye are gods.” Are you going to say Jesus took this out of context? Are you going to say Jesus was wrong?

    I would like very much to hear how you explain this. The Gospel of Jesus has been changed much over the years since his death, but his words never change and in them we can find his truth and his love.
    Your question is pretty darn close to accurate. I belong to the LDS church, which is one of the churches that proclaims us as being literal children of God. There's a little more to it, though, that can help clarify what Christ meant.

    Many of the Bible's words have been altered over time by the ignorance of man to fit their own beliefs, especially as it has been translated from one language to another. The biggest witness of this is the hundreds, if not thousands, of versions of the Bible exist in the world today. Therefore, I personally don't know how accurate that passage is in any form of the Bible as compared to the Bible's true version. The way I've been taught it, however, is that our spirits were organized by the hands of God, and we have the potential, by following his commandments and enduring to the end, to become like Him.

    Therefore, it appears that Christ is displaying to us not that we are Gods right now, but about our potential to become one. Take the following scripture, for example, from Ephesians 4 in the KJV....

    "11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

    Christ's life was an example for us to know how to become Gods. He atoned so that we could return to His Father's presence with His glory added upon us. Because of this atonement, we can repent and be forgiven, and therefore improve ourselves each day. We are not literally Gods right now, though, or else we'd be able to have spirit children. We can only have physical children while living this life, which is in essence bringing God's spirit children into the world to be tested in the same way we are.

  12. #28
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    The given example of Jesus' saying is easily interpreted from the point of view of eastern philosophy. Humans are really sons of the God, The One. The main difficulty and the goal of any religion is gaining the particular experience that could help in realizing it. And the final point when the logic ends, right at the edge of enlightment and revelation, it becomes clear that there is nobody and nothing, but the God.

  13. #29
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worried_in_the_USA
    I am very interested in knowing how many of you Christians explain John 10:34. This is when Jesus is being accused of blasphemy by the Jews, and his answer to them was John 10:34 “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”

    The law he was referring to was of course the Old Testament. Psalms 82:6 reads “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high.”

    There are only a few religions that teach we are literal children of God and therefore gods our selves. Do you say that Jesus lied when he said this? Jesus says he said it, stating that he is the author, “I said, Ye are gods.” Are you going to say Jesus took this out of context? Are you going to say Jesus was wrong?

    I would like very much to hear how you explain this. The Gospel of Jesus has been changed much over the years since his death, but his words never change and in them we can find his truth and his love.
    You must look at Psalm 82 and see it as a whole, not as one verse. The context of the psalm is referring to judges and magistrates. About justice. A judge is "all powerful" in a courtroom, he hands down judgments like a God. If verse one it states that GOD gives judgments among the gods. That He stands in the assembly in the midst of the magistrates.

    Men are gods (since they judge on His behalf as His representative). vs 6.

    Vs 7 says we shall die as men and fall as one of the princes.

    The entire chapter practically has to do with questioning the magistrates about their UNJUST Judgments.

    Now go back to John: 10:33-35: The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy; because You, a mere man, make Yourself [out to be] God.

    Jesus answer, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods? (referring to psalms 82;6)

    So men are called gods - by the Law- men to who God's message came, and the scripture cannot be set aside or cancelled or broken or annulled....etc.

    It's only in the context that men are to judge one another by our works, are you doing the work of God or not? Not to stand in judgment or condemn, but you are a living testimony of what you believe. You can SAY anything you want but it's how you live that people will judge.

    Jesus said if he wasn't doing the works of his Father, do not believe him, do not adhere, trust or rely on him. vs 37 But if he was, even if they decided not to believe him or have faith in him, at least believe the works and have faith in what he was doing in order that they would understand that the Father was in him and he was in the Father, was One with Him.

    There's a little bit of God in every thing He creates. How Not?

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  14. #30
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?


  15. #31
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Jesus moved to Egypt with Mary and Joseph, then to India......he was taught by them. Christianity is heavy Hinduism.

    Thats all fact.

  16. #32
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    Re: What did Jesus teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
    Troy McClure will be Trumps Vice president
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

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