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    'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Okay, Dee Dee, sja, etc....you know the rules...DON'T actually read the article--just call the poster nasty names!
    ************************************************** ***

    'Brokeback Mountain': Rape of the Marlboro Man

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posted: December 27, 2005
    1:00 a.m. Eastern

    Editor's note: Recently, WND Managing Editor David Kupelian, author of the best-selling book, "The Marketing of Evil," was widely quoted in the news media for his criticism of the new film "Brokeback Mountain." Here, Kupelian explains how and why the controversial movie is one of the most powerful homosexual propaganda films of our time.
    © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


    "Brokeback Mountain," the controversial "gay cowboy" film that has garnered seven Golden Globe nominations and breathless media reviews – and has now emerged as a front-runner for the Oscars – is a brilliant propaganda film, reportedly causing viewers to change the way they feel about homosexual relationships and same-sex marriage.

    And how do the movie-makers pull off such a dazzling feat? Simple. They do it by raping the "Marlboro Man," that revered American symbol of rugged individualism and masculinity.

    We all know the Marlboro Man. In "The Marketing of Evil," I show how the Philip Morris Company made marketing history by taking one of the most positive American images of all time – the cowboy – and attaching it to a negative, death-oriented product – cigarettes.

    Hit the pause button for a moment so this idea can completely sink in: Cigarette marketers cleverly attached, in the public's mind, two utterly unrelated things: 1) the American cowboy, with all of the powerful feelings that image evokes in us, of independence, self-confidence, wide-open spaces and authentic Americanism, and 2) cigarettes, a stinky, health-destroying waste of money. This legendary advertising campaign targeting men succeeded in transforming market underdog Marlboro (up until then, sold as a women's cigarette with the slogan "Mild as May") into the world's best-selling cigarette.


    It was all part of the modern marketing revolution, which meant that, instead of touting a product's actual benefits, marketers instead would psychologically manipulate the public by associating their product with the fulfillment of people's deepest, unconscious needs and desires. (Want to sell liquor? Put a seductive woman in the ad.) Obviously, the marketers could never actually deliver on that promise – but emotional manipulation sure is an effective way to sell a lot of products.

    The "Marlboro Man" campaign launched 50 years ago. Today, the powerful cowboy image is being used to sell us on another self-destructive product: homosexual sex and "gay" marriage.

    'People's minds have been changed'

    In "Brokeback Mountain," a film adaptation of the 1997 New Yorker short story by Annie Proulx, two 19-year-old ranchers named Ennis Del Mar (Heath Ledger) and Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhaal) have been hired to guard sheep on a rugged mountain in 1963 Wyoming. One night, the bitter cold drives Ennis into Jack's tent so they can keep each other warm. As they lie there, suddenly and almost without warning, these two young men – both of whom later insist they're not "queer" – jump out of the sack and awkwardly and violently engage in anal sex.

    Too embarrassed the next morning even to talk about it, Ennis and Jack dismiss their sexual encounter as a "one-shot deal" and part company at the end of the sheepherding job. Ennis marries his fiancée Alma (Michelle Williams, Ledger's real-life girlfriend) while Jack marries female rodeo rider and prom queen Lureen (Anne Hathaway). Each family has children.

    Four years later, Jack sends Ennis a postcard saying he's coming to town for a visit. When the moment finally arrives, Ennis, barely able to contain his anticipation, rushes outside to meet Jack and the two men passionately embrace and kiss. Ennis's wife sadly witnesses everything through the screen door. (Since this is one of the film's sadder moments, I wasn't quite sure why the audience in the Portland, Oregon, theater burst out in laughter at Alma's heartbreaking realization.)

    From that point on, over the next two decades Ennis and Jack take off together on periodic "fishing trips" at Brokeback Mountain, where no fishing actually takes place. During these adulterous homosexual affairs, Jack suggests they buy a ranch where the two can live happily ever after, presumably abandoning their wives and children. Ennis, however, is afraid, haunted by a traumatic childhood memory: It seems his father had tried to inoculate him against homosexuality by taking him to see the brutalized, castrated, dead body of a rancher who had lived together with another man – until murderous, bigoted neighbors committed the gruesome hate crime.

    Eventually, life with Ennis becomes intolerable and Alma divorces him, while Lureen, absorbed with the family business, only suspects Jack's secret as they drift further and further apart. When, toward the end of the story, Jack dies in a freak accident (his wife tells Ennis a tire blew up while Jack was changing it, propelling the hubcap into his face and killing him), Ennis wonders whether Jack actually met the same brutal fate as the castrated "gay" cowboy of his youth.

    Ultimately, Ennis ends up alone, with nothing, living in a small, secluded trailer, having lost both his family and his homosexual partner. He's comforted only by his most precious possession – Jack's shirt – which he pitifully embraces, almost in a slow dance, his aching loneliness masterfully projected into the audience via the film's artistry.

    Yes, the talents of Hollywood's finest are brought together in a successful attempt at making us experience Ennis's suffering, supposedly inflicted by a homophobic society. Heath Ledger's performance is brilliant and devastating. We do indeed leave the theater feeling Ennis's pain. Mission accomplished.

    Lost in all of this, however, are towering, life-and-death realities concerning sex and morality and the sanctity of marriage and the preciousness of children and the direction of our civilization itself. So please, you moviemakers, how about easing off that tight camera shot of Ennis's suffering and doing a slow pan over the massive wreckage all around him? What about the years of silent anguish and loneliness Alma stoically endures for the sake of keeping her family together, or the terrible betrayal, suffering and tears of the children, bereft of a father? None of this merits more than a brief acknowledgment in "Brokeback Mountain."

    What is important to the moviemakers, rather, is that the viewer be made to feel, and feel, and feel again as deeply as possible the exquisitely painful loneliness and heartache of the homosexual cowboys – denied their truest happiness because of an ignorant and homophobic society.

    Thus are the Judeo-Christian moral values that formed the very foundation and substance of Western culture for the past three millennia all swept away on a delicious tide of manufactured emotion. And believe me, skilled directors and actors can manufacture emotion by the truckload. It's what they do for a living.

    Co-star Jake Gyllenhaal realized the movie's power to transform audiences in Toronto, where, according to Entertainment magazine, "he was approached by festival-goers proclaiming that their preconceptions had been shattered by the film's insistence on humanizing gay love."

    "Brokeback Mountain," said Gyllenhaal, "is that pure place you take someone that's free of judgment. These guys were scared. What they feared was not each other but what was outside of each other. What was so sad was that it didn't have to happen like that." But then, said the article, Gyllenhaal jumped to his feel and exclaimed triumphantly: "I mean, people's minds have been changed. That's amazing."

    Changed indeed. And that's the goal. Film is, by its very nature, highly propagandistic. That is, when you read a book, if you detect you're being lied to or manipulated, you can always stop reading, close the book momentarily and say, "Wait just a minute, there's something wrong here!" You can't do that in a film: You're bombarded with sound and images, all expertly crafted to give you selected information and to stimulate certain feelings, and you can't stop the barrage, not in a theater anyway. The visuals and sound and music – and along with them, the underlying agenda of the filmmakers – pursue you relentlessly, overwhelming your emotions and senses.

    And when you leave the theater, unless you're really objective to what you've experienced, you've been changed – even if just a little bit.

  2. #2
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Want to know how easily your feelings can be manipulated? Let's take the smallest, most seemingly insignificant example and see. Sit down at a piano and play a song, any song – even "Mary Had a Little Lamb" – as long as it's in a major key. Then, play the same song, but change from a major to a minor key; just lower the third step of the scale by a half-step so the melody and harmony become minor. If you watch carefully, you'll note this one tiny change makes the minor-key version sound a bit melancholy and sad, while the normal, major-key version sounds bright and happy. (As the expression goes, "Major glad, minor sad.")

    Now take this principle and apply it to a feature film by expanding it a million-fold. A movie's musical score has one overriding function – to make the viewer feel a certain way at strategic points during the story. And music is just one of dozens of factors and techniques used to influence audiences in the deepest way possible. Everything from the script to the directing to the camera work to the acting, which in "Brokeback Mountain" is brilliant, serve the purpose of making the movie-makers' vision seem like reality – even if it's twisted and perverse.

    Do we understand that Hollywood could easily produce a similar movie to "Brokeback Mountain," only this time glorifying an incest relationship, or even an adult-child sexual relationship? Like "Brokeback," it too would serve to desensitize us to the immoral and destructive reality of what we're seeing, while fervently coaxing us into embracing that which we once rightly shunned.

    All the filmmakers would need to do is skillfully make viewers experience the actors' powerful emotions of loneliness and emptiness – juxtaposed with feelings of joy and fulfillment when the two "lovers" are together – to bring us to a new level of "understanding" for any forbidden "love." Alongside this, of course, they would necessarily portray those opposed to this unorthodox "love" as Nazis or thugs. Thus, many of us would let go of our "old-fashioned" biblical ideas of morality in light of what seems like the more imminent and undeniable reality of human love in all its diverse forms.

    A "Brokeback"-type movie could easily be made, for instance, to portray a female school teacher's affair with a 14-year-old student as "a magnificent love story." And I'm not talking about the 2000 made-for-TV potboiler, "All-American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau Story," about the Seattle school teacher who seduced a sixth-grade student, went to prison for statutory rape, and later married the boy having had two children by him. I'm talking about a big-budget, big-name Hollywood masterpiece aimed at transforming America through film, just as Hitler relied on master filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl to make propaganda films to manipulate the emotions of an entire nation.

    In place of "Brokeback Mountain's" scene with the castrated homosexual, the "adult-child love story" could have a similar scene in which, as a young girl, the future teacher's mother took her to see the body of a woman who had fallen in consensual "love" with a 14-year-old boy, only to be brutalized, her breasts cut off, and bludgeoned to death – all by Nazi-like bigoted neighbors. (So that's why she couldn't be honest and open about her later relationship with her student.)

    Inevitably, such a film would make us doubt our former condemnation of adult-child sex, or at least reduce our outrage as we gained more "understanding" and sympathy for the participants. It would cause us to ask the same question one reviewer asked after seeing "Brokeback Mountain": "In an age when the fight over gay marriage still rages, 'Brokeback Mountain,' the tale of two men who are scarcely even allowed to imagine being together, asks, through the very purity with which it touches us: When it comes to love, what sort of world do we really want?"

    OK, I'll bite. Let's talk about love. The critics call "Brokeback Mountain" a "pure" and "magnificent" love story. Do we really want to call such an obsession – especially one that destroys marriages and is based on constant lies, deceit and neglect of one's children – "love"?

    What if I were a heroin addict and told you I loved my drug dealer? What if I told you he always makes me feel good, and that I have a hard time living without him, and that I think about him all the time with warm feelings of anticipation and inner completion? And that whenever we get together, it's the only time I feel truly happy and at peace with myself?

    Oh, you don't approve of my "love"? You dare to criticize it, telling me my relationship with my drug dealer is not real love, but just an unhealthy addiction? What if I respond to you by saying, "Oh shut up, you hater. How dare you impose your sick, narrow-minded, oppressive values on me? Who are you, you pinch-faced, moralistic hypocrite, to define for me what real love is?"

    Don't laugh. I guarantee Hollywood could make a movie about a man and his drug dealer, or an adult-child sexual relationship, that would pull on our emotions and create some level of sympathy for the characters. Furthermore, in at least some cases, it would make us doubt our conscience – a gift directly from God, the perception of right and wrong that he puts in each one of us – our inner knowing that this was a totally unhealthy and self-destructive relationship.

    Ultimately, propaganda works because it washes over us, overwhelming our senses, confusing us, upsetting or emotionalizing us, and thereby making us doubt what we once knew. Listen to what actor Jake Gyllenhaal, who plays Jack, told the reporter for Entertainment magazine about doing the "love" scenes with Heath Ledger:

    "I was super uncomfortable … [but] what made me most courageous was that I realized I had to try to let go of that stereotype I had in my mind, that bit of homophobia, and try for a second to be vulnerable and sensitive. It was f---in' hard, man. I succeeded only for milliseconds."



    Gyllenhaal thinks he was "super uncomfortable" while being filmed having simulated homosexual sex because of his own "homophobia." Could it be, rather, that his conflict resulted from putting himself in a position, having agreed to do the film, where he was required to violate his own conscience? As so often happens, he was tricked into pushing past invisible internal barriers – crossing a line he wasn't meant to cross. It's called seduction.

    This is how the "marketers of evil" work on all of us. They transform our attitudes by making us feel as though our "super uncomfortable" feelings toward embracing unnatural or corrupt behavior of whatever sort – a discomfort literally put into us by a loving God, for our protection – somehow represent ignorance or bigotry or weakness.

    I wrote "The Marketing of Evil" to expose these people, and especially to reveal the hidden techniques they've been using for decades to confuse us, to manipulate our feelings and get us to doubt and turn our backs on the truth we once knew and loved. Indeed, whether they're outright lying to us, or ridiculing us for our traditional beliefs, or trying to make us feel guilty over some supposed bigotry on our part, the "marketers of evil" can prevail simply by intimidating or emotionally stirring us up in one way or another. Once that happens, we can easily become confused and lose the inborn understanding God gave us. We all need that inner understanding or common sense, because it's our primary protection from all the evil influences in this world.

    As I said at the outset, Hollywood has now raped the Marlboro Man. It has taken a revered symbol of America – the cowboy – with all the powerful emotions and associations that are rooted deep down in the pioneering American soul, and grafted onto it a self-destructive lifestyle it wants to force down Americans' throats. The result is a brazen propaganda vehicle designed to replace the reservations most Americans still have toward homosexuality with powerful feelings of sympathy, guilt over past "homophobia" – and ultimately the complete and utter acceptance of homosexuality as equivalent in every way to heterosexuality.

    If and when that day comes, America will have totally abandoned its core biblical principles – as well as the Author of those principles. The radical secularists will have gotten their wish, and this nation – like the traditional cowboy characters corrupted in "Brokeback Mountain" – will have stumbled down a sad, self-destructive and ultimately disastrous road.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    I am not in agreement with much of what is here, but it is foolish to think that the road that hollywood would LIKE to lead us down is not paved with real perversion and depravity. Wait until the story of the poor, misunderstood NAMBLA group--coming to a theater near you. Soon.

  3. #3
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Honestly pwrone does it really matter? Films are all made to evoke emotions from the viewer. Are you going to rush out to a local theater and watch this movie? I think there is a better chance of me becoming a conservative republican than that happening. As long as people choose what to watch and where to spend their money then the impact upon society of any film as a whole is minimal.

  4. #4
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Want to know how easily your feelings can be manipulated? Let's take the smallest, most seemingly insignificant example and see. Sit down at a piano and play a song, any song – even "Mary Had a Little Lamb" – as long as it's in a major key. Then, play the same song, but change from a major to a minor key; just lower the third step of the scale by a half-step so the melody and harmony become minor. If you watch carefully, you'll note this one tiny change makes the minor-key version sound a bit melancholy and sad, while the normal, major-key version sounds bright and happy. (As the expression goes, "Major glad, minor sad.")

    Now take this principle and apply it to a feature film by expanding it a million-fold. A movie's musical score has one overriding function – to make the viewer feel a certain way at strategic points during the story. And music is just one of dozens of factors and techniques used to influence audiences in the deepest way possible. Everything from the script to the directing to the camera work to the acting, which in "Brokeback Mountain" is brilliant, serve the purpose of making the movie-makers' vision seem like reality – even if it's twisted and perverse.

    Do we understand that Hollywood could easily produce a similar movie to "Brokeback Mountain," only this time glorifying an incest relationship, or even an adult-child sexual relationship? Like "Brokeback," it too would serve to desensitize us to the immoral and destructive reality of what we're seeing, while fervently coaxing us into embracing that which we once rightly shunned.

    All the filmmakers would need to do is skillfully make viewers experience the actors' powerful emotions of loneliness and emptiness – juxtaposed with feelings of joy and fulfillment when the two "lovers" are together – to bring us to a new level of "understanding" for any forbidden "love." Alongside this, of course, they would necessarily portray those opposed to this unorthodox "love" as Nazis or thugs. Thus, many of us would let go of our "old-fashioned" biblical ideas of morality in light of what seems like the more imminent and undeniable reality of human love in all its diverse forms.

    A "Brokeback"-type movie could easily be made, for instance, to portray a female school teacher's affair with a 14-year-old student as "a magnificent love story." And I'm not talking about the 2000 made-for-TV potboiler, "All-American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau Story," about the Seattle school teacher who seduced a sixth-grade student, went to prison for statutory rape, and later married the boy having had two children by him. I'm talking about a big-budget, big-name Hollywood masterpiece aimed at transforming America through film, just as Hitler relied on master filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl to make propaganda films to manipulate the emotions of an entire nation.

    In place of "Brokeback Mountain's" scene with the castrated homosexual, the "adult-child love story" could have a similar scene in which, as a young girl, the future teacher's mother took her to see the body of a woman who had fallen in consensual "love" with a 14-year-old boy, only to be brutalized, her breasts cut off, and bludgeoned to death – all by Nazi-like bigoted neighbors. (So that's why she couldn't be honest and open about her later relationship with her student.)

    Inevitably, such a film would make us doubt our former condemnation of adult-child sex, or at least reduce our outrage as we gained more "understanding" and sympathy for the participants. It would cause us to ask the same question one reviewer asked after seeing "Brokeback Mountain": "In an age when the fight over gay marriage still rages, 'Brokeback Mountain,' the tale of two men who are scarcely even allowed to imagine being together, asks, through the very purity with which it touches us: When it comes to love, what sort of world do we really want?"

    OK, I'll bite. Let's talk about love. The critics call "Brokeback Mountain" a "pure" and "magnificent" love story. Do we really want to call such an obsession – especially one that destroys marriages and is based on constant lies, deceit and neglect of one's children – "love"?

    What if I were a heroin addict and told you I loved my drug dealer? What if I told you he always makes me feel good, and that I have a hard time living without him, and that I think about him all the time with warm feelings of anticipation and inner completion? And that whenever we get together, it's the only time I feel truly happy and at peace with myself?

    Oh, you don't approve of my "love"? You dare to criticize it, telling me my relationship with my drug dealer is not real love, but just an unhealthy addiction? What if I respond to you by saying, "Oh shut up, you hater. How dare you impose your sick, narrow-minded, oppressive values on me? Who are you, you pinch-faced, moralistic hypocrite, to define for me what real love is?"

    Don't laugh. I guarantee Hollywood could make a movie about a man and his drug dealer, or an adult-child sexual relationship, that would pull on our emotions and create some level of sympathy for the characters. Furthermore, in at least some cases, it would make us doubt our conscience – a gift directly from God, the perception of right and wrong that he puts in each one of us – our inner knowing that this was a totally unhealthy and self-destructive relationship.

    Ultimately, propaganda works because it washes over us, overwhelming our senses, confusing us, upsetting or emotionalizing us, and thereby making us doubt what we once knew. Listen to what actor Jake Gyllenhaal, who plays Jack, told the reporter for Entertainment magazine about doing the "love" scenes with Heath Ledger:

    "I was super uncomfortable … [but] what made me most courageous was that I realized I had to try to let go of that stereotype I had in my mind, that bit of homophobia, and try for a second to be vulnerable and sensitive. It was f---in' hard, man. I succeeded only for milliseconds."



    Gyllenhaal thinks he was "super uncomfortable" while being filmed having simulated homosexual sex because of his own "homophobia." Could it be, rather, that his conflict resulted from putting himself in a position, having agreed to do the film, where he was required to violate his own conscience? As so often happens, he was tricked into pushing past invisible internal barriers – crossing a line he wasn't meant to cross. It's called seduction.

    This is how the "marketers of evil" work on all of us. They transform our attitudes by making us feel as though our "super uncomfortable" feelings toward embracing unnatural or corrupt behavior of whatever sort – a discomfort literally put into us by a loving God, for our protection – somehow represent ignorance or bigotry or weakness.

    I wrote "The Marketing of Evil" to expose these people, and especially to reveal the hidden techniques they've been using for decades to confuse us, to manipulate our feelings and get us to doubt and turn our backs on the truth we once knew and loved. Indeed, whether they're outright lying to us, or ridiculing us for our traditional beliefs, or trying to make us feel guilty over some supposed bigotry on our part, the "marketers of evil" can prevail simply by intimidating or emotionally stirring us up in one way or another. Once that happens, we can easily become confused and lose the inborn understanding God gave us. We all need that inner understanding or common sense, because it's our primary protection from all the evil influences in this world.

    As I said at the outset, Hollywood has now raped the Marlboro Man. It has taken a revered symbol of America – the cowboy – with all the powerful emotions and associations that are rooted deep down in the pioneering American soul, and grafted onto it a self-destructive lifestyle it wants to force down Americans' throats. The result is a brazen propaganda vehicle designed to replace the reservations most Americans still have toward homosexuality with powerful feelings of sympathy, guilt over past "homophobia" – and ultimately the complete and utter acceptance of homosexuality as equivalent in every way to heterosexuality.

    If and when that day comes, America will have totally abandoned its core biblical principles – as well as the Author of those principles. The radical secularists will have gotten their wish, and this nation – like the traditional cowboy characters corrupted in "Brokeback Mountain" – will have stumbled down a sad, self-destructive and ultimately disastrous road.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    I am not in agreement with much of what is here, but it is foolish to think that the road that hollywood would LIKE to lead us down is not paved with real perversion and depravity. Wait until the story of the poor, misunderstood NAMBLA group--coming to a theater near you. Soon.

    Although you can be a major "turn-off" with some of your post, I am with
    you on this one!
    I would say they must have been "queer" in the first place. Otherwise...
    When I first began to see the promos. on T.V. and caught on to the theme,
    I thought, 'yeah, broke-back alright... interesting connotation.
    Was wondering, are you a musican? Was reading about the musical
    technical aspects. Gave me the impression that you know something
    about the art...
    Regards & Happy New Year!

  5. #5
    sojustask's Avatar
    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    Although you can be a major "turn-off" with some of your post, I am with
    you on this one!
    I would say they must have been "queer" in the first place. Otherwise...
    When I first began to see the promos. on T.V. and caught on to the theme,
    I thought, 'yeah, broke-back alright... interesting connotation.
    Was wondering, are you a musican? Was reading about the musical
    technical aspects. Gave me the impression that you know something
    about the art...
    Regards & Happy New Year!
    I have pwrone on ignore because I think he is a fool and idiot and I'm not moderating here until Feb. I see by what you chose to quote him on that it was indeed a wise decision for me to do so.

    Did he actually have a political point to make with this subject or was he just wanting to talk about the pervision of Hollywood? I grew up in Los Angeles, I've always known how perverted Hollywood is. LOL. I don't waste my time with television so I don't see most of the promos for anything.

    I read this and I'm still not sure what the hell his is trying to say about NAMBLA and the Marlboro man.

    Maybe DeeDee can clue me in?

    Lady Mod

  6. #6
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    I have pwrone on ignore because I think he is a fool and idiot and I'm not moderating here until Feb. I see by what you chose to quote him on that it was indeed a wise decision for me to do so.

    Did he actually have a political point to make with this subject or was he just wanting to talk about the pervision of Hollywood? I grew up in Los Angeles, I've always known how perverted Hollywood is. LOL. I don't waste my time with television so I don't see most of the promos for anything.

    I read this and I'm still not sure what the hell his is trying to say about NAMBLA and the Marlboro man.

    Maybe DeeDee can clue me in?

    Lady Mod

    Very much political, I think; socieo-political.
    Just an observation, but IF you don't actually watch T.V. you are
    very much in the minority there.
    Television is a very powerful communication and social message tool that
    is VERY effectively used for quiet a few different agendas. Many of them
    effect even ones like you that don't watch.
    I know that you're aware of SOME of the other agendas, such as
    the present administration in office ;) uses television, the newspapers
    and magazines VERY often and effictively. But, what political interest
    doesn't?
    Anyway, as you probably know, there is a very strenous push being made
    by the homosexual community now to come out in public and look to
    others for being accepted as normal and what they do is okay.
    Well, I would prefer that they keep what they do and what they are
    under wraps. I am certainly not under any illusion to the fact that they
    have always been around. BUT, one of the major points, I think, is since
    they cannot procreate through their acts, we or they wouldn't be here
    right now if it was up to their nature.
    Anyway, another "can of worms" issue, and I know many others have their
    own personal other than viewpoint. But hey, that's democracy isn't it?
    That's what we're supposed to be living in and supporting as our social
    system. But obviously, there are those one here that think Democracy
    should only function according to their narrow-minded viewpoint.
    I don't know if you saw my Thread: New Year's Resolution, but see,
    you've already caused me to break it! :D ;)
    p.s. I meant it for everyone's invited to post theirs, as well.
    take care and a healthy, happy and prosperous New Year 2006!
    'nother p.s. :eek: too bad you found it necessary to ban Pwrone again.
    I almost think that is his real agenda. He seems sorta' like he operates like
    one of thos Trolls?
    Anyway...
    Last edited by coontie; 12-31-2005 at 09:18 PM. Reason: spell

  7. #7
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    Very much political, I think; socieo-political.
    Just an observation, but IF you don't actually watch T.V. you are
    very much in the minority there.
    Television is a very powerful communication and social message tool that
    is VERY effectively used for quiet a few different agendas. Many of them
    effect even ones like you that don't watch.
    I know that you're aware of SOME of the other agendas, such as
    the present administration in office ;) uses television, the newspapers
    and magazines VERY often and effictively. But, what political interest
    doesn't?
    Anyway, as you probably know, there is a very strenous push being made
    by the homosexual community now to come out in public and look to
    others for being accepted as normal and what they do is okay.
    Well, I would prefer that they keep what they do and what they are
    under wraps. I am certainly not under any illusion to the fact that they
    have always been around. BUT, one of the major points, I think, is since
    they cannot procreate through their acts, we or they wouldn't be here
    right now if it was up to their nature.
    Anyway, another "can of worms" issue, and I know many others have their
    own personal other than viewpoint. But hey, that's democracy isn't it?
    That's what we're supposed to be living in and supporting as our social
    system. But obviously, there are those one here that think Democracy
    should only function according to their narrow-minded viewpoint.
    I don't know if you saw my Thread: New Year's Resolution, but see,
    you've already caused me to break it! :D ;)
    p.s. I meant it for everyone's invited to post theirs, as well.
    take care and a healthy, happy and prosperous New Year 2006!
    'nother p.s. :eek: too bad you found it necessary to ban Pwrone again.
    I almost think that is his real agenda. He seems sorta' like he operates like
    one of thos Trolls?
    Anyway...
    Your posts aren't too long, they would just be easier to read if you put a space between different thoughts/paragraphs.

    The kids watch television sometimes, so I hear some of what is going on but I prefer to get most of my information from less brain washing types of media.

    Ah, the Gay issue. Always a volitile subject. Personally, I think all sex should be behind closed doors, regardless of the gender it's done with. I don't think sex acts add to the watchability of a movie unless you are a guy and they can't usually help themselves.

    As far as accepting Gay people, they just want the same rights/privileges that are given to heterosexual couples. The right to form a civil union (which is all marriage at the courthouse is), the right to see a sick or dying partner in the hospital, a right to inherit or be a beneficiary of health and life insurance. That's what the core issues are.

    If the religious right would have allowed that to happen I don't think there would have been this huge push to accept them as "normal"? But heterosexuals, men especially, feel threatened by Gay folks. That's totally bizarre IMO, but men are much more vocal on the subject than women. It will happen eventually, the Gay folks getting what they want, but it will take a lot of years of "brainwashing" television now to get there rather than just allowing them to have what they were originally asking for and letting the issues drop back out of sight and moving on.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  8. #8
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    Honestly pwrone does it really matter? Films are all made to evoke emotions from the viewer. Are you going to rush out to a local theater and watch this movie? I think there is a better chance of me becoming a conservative republican than that happening. As long as people choose what to watch and where to spend their money then the impact upon society of any film as a whole is minimal.

    I am sure that I WILL see this movie...by all accounts it is one of the best of the year. I think the best director working today is Almovodar, and almost all of his movies have a gay theme. What does that mean? Ah...nothing. I guess my point was missed somewhat...with lady mood putting me on 'ignore' and STILL managing to throw personal insults at me, I can see that '06 will be a lot like '05...for some. Me? I'm looking forward to an even better year in all facets of life and wishing the same to everyone here.

  9. #9
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    No, he made his point. Homophobe.

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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Personally, I am not going to bother watching filth like that...I wouldn't waste my money on such garbage. Sugar-coating and glorified sentiment poured on garbage? It still reeks and rots.

    Here are two related articles- I see "loud and clear" why pwrone started this thread.

    TOP MEDIA EXEC ADMITS HOLLYWOOD'S LEFTIST BIAS
    movieguide.org
    Posted by: admin - 2005-12-30 12:42:37

    Hollywood’s elites have a leftist political agenda, according to one top executive at one of the six major entertainment conglomerates in Hollywood.

    The executive told MOVIEGUIDE® that Hollywood leaders know that a movie like BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, which is an explicit, politically correct pro-homosexual movie, is not that good, but that Hollywood’s liberal elites feel they have to promote movies like it in order to thumb their nose at conservatives and Christians.

    BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is a boring, plotless work that not only promotes a leftist homosexual agenda, but also mocks Christianity in one scene and portrays heterosexual men and fathers as hateful, domineering, violent, repressive, and weak.

    “The entertainment media has been trying to promote the homosexual lifestyle for decades,” said Dr. Ted Baehr, publisher of MOVIEGUIDE®, the definitive family guide to movies and entertainment for parents and people of faith. “The average moviegoer has been rejecting that agenda, but, regrettably, that’s not true of many politicians, top judges and many leftist teachers who indoctrinate children when their parents aren’t looking.”

    MOVIEGUIDE® recently completed a six-year study of homosexual content in movies. The study showed that movies with very strong homosexual content, like BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, make more than 20 times less money on average than movies with a very strong Judeo-Christian or conservative worldview like THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST, THE LION, THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE, THE INCREDIBLES, and SPIDER-MAN 2.

    BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN has received tremendous accolades from red state centers of media power, including the Los Angeles film critics, New York City film critics and the 87 foreigners in Los Angeles who pick the nominees at the over-hyped Golden Globes.

    MOVIEGUIDE® is in the midst of picking nominees for its own awards show, the 14th Annual MOVIEGUIDE® Faith & Values Awards Gala, to be held March 2, 2006 at the Beverly Hilton Hotel in Beverly Hills, Calif.

    “The MOVIEGUIDE® Awards promote family-friendly, Christian and biblical values,” Dr. Baehr said. “Since we began in 1992, the number of movies with positive Christian and biblical content has quadrupled.

    “Donations from the public help us keep that trend going,” he added. “That’s the best way to fight the politically correct, left-wing agenda of many in Hollywood and the news media, as well as many politicians, judges and teachers in the culture-at-large.”

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Coming in 2006: Group marriage TV?
    TownHall.com
    Posted by: admin - 2005-12-30 08:03:49

    By Brent Bozell

    Dec 30, 2005


    As another year turns, we're reminded that the more things change, the more they stay the same. As our popular culture pushes ever further into anything goes, we're reminded that anything-goes has certainly gone before.

    Pick up St. Augustine's "Confessions," and find him traveling to Carthage in the year 371, where "I found myself in a hissing cauldron of lust." Looking back, he regretted how in his desperate search for love, "I muddied the stream of friendship with the filth of lewdness and clouded its clear waters with Hell's black river of lust."

    This was not the way Augustine saw it in the dissolute days before he found God, and it is certainly not the way our entertainment elite sees love and sex today. But it's interesting how at that time, Augustine found his sorrows drowned at the theater, "because the plays reflected my unhappy plight and were tinder to my fire." He was amazed how no one actually wanted to experience sadness and tragedy firsthand, but many were thrilled to watch it faked before them. They wanted the vicarious experience of risky emotional highs and tragic emotional lows without the actual, nonfictional pain. Curiosity could drag them anywhere, to spy on the ribald and disastrous ways "the other half lived."

    That urge still has echoes today. Led by the usual hallowed envelope-pushers of pay cable, Hollywood has marched ever more passionately in this decade into chronicling and celebrating a cavalcade of alternative lifestyles. The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation coos over how on this season, Showtime's lesbian drama, "The L Word," will have a full-time "trans-gendered" character. HBO's Wild West drama "Deadwood," previously well-known for its "lyrical" flood of profanities, will feature a new "gay and eccentric theater owner" character in the new year.

    But HBO is really trampling new weeds by ushering in a new hot alternative lifestyle this spring -- polygamy. Newsweek is already raving in their "Who's Next" year-end issue about "Big Love," starring Bill Paxton as a man with three wives in three adjoining houses with seven kids between them.

    Reporter Marc Peyser explained: "The Henricksons are devoutly religious and wholesome (they are not Mormons but an unspecified offshoot). Most of the action focuses on how Bill, who owns home-improvement stores in Utah, handles the mundane aspects of his overpopulated life." The vicarious appeal is watching this man trying to juggle his work life with keeping three "very desperate" housewives satisfied. "It's everything that every family faces, just times three," claimed co-creator Mark Olsen. "The yuck factor disappears, and you just see human faces. We found it to be a mother lode." Newsweek oozed: "On top of that, it's taboo." For how long?

    The secular sexual gospel in this series is quite obvious. Even "non-traditional" families of all kinds of exotic stripes can still qualify as down to earth, even "devoutly religious and wholesome." One of the show's creators, playwright Will Scheffer, is especially fond of envelope-pushing. One of his plays featured a bit "delivered by [cannibal/murderer] Jeffrey Dahmer and takes place in Dahmer's kitchen in Heaven, in which he gives lessons on cooking and other topics."

    Hollywood's power to affect the popular culture is awesome, and its dedication to tearing down traditions is frightening. We've seen it repeated time and again. Once upon a time, society saw pre-marital sex as wrong; after years of "Friends"-style programming, today it is commonplace to see unmarried couples living together. It wasn't long ago that American society saw the homosexual lifestyle as immoral -- yes, a sin. Today, after years of Hollywood agitation, promoting gay characters and gay lifestyles, it is to be accepted, and anything short of that is intolerance. It seems like just yesterday that a teacher having sex with his/her ********d student was considered rape. No, there's another word for this: pedophilia. Today? Having been sensitized with enough "Dawson's Creek" episodes, we yawn when we hear about it on the news.

    It is a thirst to shock that cannot be quenched. It's an addiction. This element in Hollywood lives to destroy, and must continue destroying to stay alive, so the anti-Western cultural rampage continues. What's next? Nonfictional "group marriage TV" will arrive on the Bravo channel in the spring, with a documentary called "Three of Hearts: A Postmodern Family," featuring a New York triple with two gay men, a woman and two children.

    Now, reading that last sentence -- what was your reaction? Perhaps a bit surprised, maybe somewhat disgusted. But you weren't shocked, were you?

    I rest my case.

  11. #11
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Boone: I am a moderate Christian, which means I don't go for the radical
    judgemental attitude of the fundamentalists, otherwise fanatics.
    I do happen to understand your position, however.
    When I first saw the "thing" being advertised on T.V. I got the drift
    of the matter pretty quick, as in agenda.
    I don't plan on seein it either. It is a major turn-off.
    If they want to do their "thing", then do it in privacy, such as we expect ALL
    civilized, discreet indivduals to behave when expressing theirself sexually.

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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Well said, Coontie.

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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by boone
    Well said, Coontie.
    I second that

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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Brokeback Mountain
    And America’s Bankrupt Values
    Go ahead and call me closed-minded. I don’t plan to see this movie—no matter how many awards it wins.

    by J. Lee Grady

    Hollywood has gone bonkers over director Ang Lee’s new film Brokeback Mountain, the story of two rough-riding ranchers who fall in love and then try to hide their homosexual relationship from their wives and families. This week the movie won the Golden Globe award for Best Picture in the drama category, and it will probably sweep the Oscars later this spring.

    It’s the movie “everybody” is applauding. And it’s considered politically incorrect for anyone to criticize it—lest they instantly be labeled a bigot or a homophobe.

    I never considered going to see the film because I don’t believe the Holy Spirit approves of my watching two men have sex with each other in a pup tent. I don’t care how beautiful the Wyoming scenery is.

    Film critics (the majority of whom have praised Brokeback Mountain for its “artistry” and “poetic dialogue”) have informed us that the film is rated R because it contains nudity, sexual content, plenty of cowboy profanity and, by the way, a “graphic gay sex scene.”

    I am sure I will be branded a prude for bashing a film I haven’t seen. Even some Christians will say I’m giving the church a bad name for rushing to judgment.

    But in this case I really don’t mind wearing a fundamentalist label. Some things don’t need to be analyzed. You couldn’t pay me to sit through a movie in which I have to watch two cowboys kissing, fondling each other and reaching sexual climax.

    God help us.

    I don’t know what is more tragic about Brokeback Mountain—the fact that American audiences are watching soft-core gay pornography at the local suburban multiplex or that the film industry is giving its highest honors to a movie that glorifies sodomy.

    I pray that President Bush—a cowboy at heart—doesn’t bow to political pressure and allow this film to be screened in his personal theater in the White House.

    In the film, the two main characters, Jack and Ennis (played by Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger) bury their gay affections for each other, choose to live in denial and then marry their respective wives. Later, they meet up again and rekindle their illicit relationship. So Brokeback is a film that not only explores homoeroticism but also celebrates adultery.

    And Americans are paying to watch it.

    Christian film critic Ted Baehr, founder of Movieguide, did a six-year study of homosexual content in mainstream films. He discovered that movies with strong homosexual content make 20 times less money than films with a conservative, Judeo-Christian viewpoint. Yet Hollywood executives seem determined to keep pumping out garbage until they can train us to pay big bucks for it.

    Baehr reviewed Brokeback Mountain and called it “a boring, pointless work that not only promotes a leftist, homosexual agenda, but also mocks Christianity in one scene and portrays heterosexual men and fathers as hateful, domineering, violent, repressive and weak.”

    What bothers me most about the movie is that Christians who want to be relevant to society—and who don’t want to appear judgmental—will shell out $8.75 each to support this “artistic” film. Besides polluting their souls with images and sounds we shouldn’t see or hear, they’ll pump millions more dollars into a film company so it can launch another moral assault on the country next year.

    Surely there’s a sequel planned.

    What are you going to do about it? I’m not asking anybody to stand outside America’s theaters with placards—although in this case it seems some Jeremiah-style warnings are in order. But I am going to plead with every decent American to send a clear message to Hollywood.

    Please don’t buy a ticket.

    Brokeback Mountain reminds me of those X-rated e-mails that sometimes slip through our Internet filters. You’re minding your own business one minute, and the next minute you realize that somebody has attempted to molest you sexually with cyberporn. When that happens to me I hit the delete button immediately.

    I don’t “review” X-rated spam. And in the case of Brokeback Mountain, I don’t care if the musical score is breathtaking or the dialogue is poetic. This movie is the equivalent of a cinematic sexual assault. Please don’t help pay for it.

    J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma and an award-winning journalist. He writes his Fire In My Bones column for Charisma Online twice a week

  15. #15
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    there's always choices... be in charge of your life. Be where YOU desire to
    be, doing, watching participating in what you desire.

    There will always be sad, twisted material circulating out in the world, has
    been ever since the advent of humanity.
    It wont go away, but one always has the choice of supporting, entertaining
    it, or not.

    Just remember, some people spent a lot of money making the film mentioned
    and they would like to NOT see it lost, also, a lot of profit... as much money
    as possible... morals or other consideration are a none issue to them!


    The more of such media that is supported by public attendance, thereby
    making money for the producers, the more that will be served up.

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    Re: 'BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN': The Rape Of The Marlboro Man

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Want to know how easily your feelings can be manipulated? Let's take the smallest, most seemingly insignificant example and see. Sit down at a piano and play a song, any song – even "Mary Had a Little Lamb" – as long as it's in a major key. Then, play the same song, but change from a major to a minor key; just lower the third step of the scale by a half-step so the melody and harmony become minor. If you watch carefully, you'll note this one tiny change makes the minor-key version sound a bit melancholy and sad, while the normal, major-key version sounds bright and happy. (As the expression goes, "Major glad, minor sad.")

    Now take this principle and apply it to a feature film by expanding it a million-fold. A movie's musical score has one overriding function – to make the viewer feel a certain way at strategic points during the story. And music is just one of dozens of factors and techniques used to influence audiences in the deepest way possible. Everything from the script to the directing to the camera work to the acting, which in "Brokeback Mountain" is brilliant, serve the purpose of making the movie-makers' vision seem like reality – even if it's twisted and perverse.

    Do we understand that Hollywood could easily produce a similar movie to "Brokeback Mountain," only this time glorifying an incest relationship, or even an adult-child sexual relationship? Like "Brokeback," it too would serve to desensitize us to the immoral and destructive reality of what we're seeing, while fervently coaxing us into embracing that which we once rightly shunned.

    All the filmmakers would need to do is skillfully make viewers experience the actors' powerful emotions of loneliness and emptiness – juxtaposed with feelings of joy and fulfillment when the two "lovers" are together – to bring us to a new level of "understanding" for any forbidden "love." Alongside this, of course, they would necessarily portray those opposed to this unorthodox "love" as Nazis or thugs. Thus, many of us would let go of our "old-fashioned" biblical ideas of morality in light of what seems like the more imminent and undeniable reality of human love in all its diverse forms.

    A "Brokeback"-type movie could easily be made, for instance, to portray a female school teacher's affair with a 14-year-old student as "a magnificent love story." And I'm not talking about the 2000 made-for-TV potboiler, "All-American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau Story," about the Seattle school teacher who seduced a sixth-grade student, went to prison for statutory rape, and later married the boy having had two children by him. I'm talking about a big-budget, big-name Hollywood masterpiece aimed at transforming America through film, just as Hitler relied on master filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl to make propaganda films to manipulate the emotions of an entire nation.

    In place of "Brokeback Mountain's" scene with the castrated homosexual, the "adult-child love story" could have a similar scene in which, as a young girl, the future teacher's mother took her to see the body of a woman who had fallen in consensual "love" with a 14-year-old boy, only to be brutalized, her breasts cut off, and bludgeoned to death – all by Nazi-like bigoted neighbors. (So that's why she couldn't be honest and open about her later relationship with her student.)

    Inevitably, such a film would make us doubt our former condemnation of adult-child sex, or at least reduce our outrage as we gained more "understanding" and sympathy for the participants. It would cause us to ask the same question one reviewer asked after seeing "Brokeback Mountain": "In an age when the fight over gay marriage still rages, 'Brokeback Mountain,' the tale of two men who are scarcely even allowed to imagine being together, asks, through the very purity with which it touches us: When it comes to love, what sort of world do we really want?"

    OK, I'll bite. Let's talk about love. The critics call "Brokeback Mountain" a "pure" and "magnificent" love story. Do we really want to call such an obsession – especially one that destroys marriages and is based on constant lies, deceit and neglect of one's children – "love"?

    What if I were a heroin addict and told you I loved my drug dealer? What if I told you he always makes me feel good, and that I have a hard time living without him, and that I think about him all the time with warm feelings of anticipation and inner completion? And that whenever we get together, it's the only time I feel truly happy and at peace with myself?

    Oh, you don't approve of my "love"? You dare to criticize it, telling me my relationship with my drug dealer is not real love, but just an unhealthy addiction? What if I respond to you by saying, "Oh shut up, you hater. How dare you impose your sick, narrow-minded, oppressive values on me? Who are you, you pinch-faced, moralistic hypocrite, to define for me what real love is?"

    Don't laugh. I guarantee Hollywood could make a movie about a man and his drug dealer, or an adult-child sexual relationship, that would pull on our emotions and create some level of sympathy for the characters. Furthermore, in at least some cases, it would make us doubt our conscience – a gift directly from God, the perception of right and wrong that he puts in each one of us – our inner knowing that this was a totally unhealthy and self-destructive relationship.

    Ultimately, propaganda works because it washes over us, overwhelming our senses, confusing us, upsetting or emotionalizing us, and thereby making us doubt what we once knew. Listen to what actor Jake Gyllenhaal, who plays Jack, told the reporter for Entertainment magazine about doing the "love" scenes with Heath Ledger:

    "I was super uncomfortable … [but] what made me most courageous was that I realized I had to try to let go of that stereotype I had in my mind, that bit of homophobia, and try for a second to be vulnerable and sensitive. It was f---in' hard, man. I succeeded only for milliseconds."



    Gyllenhaal thinks he was "super uncomfortable" while being filmed having simulated homosexual sex because of his own "homophobia." Could it be, rather, that his conflict resulted from putting himself in a position, having agreed to do the film, where he was required to violate his own conscience? As so often happens, he was tricked into pushing past invisible internal barriers – crossing a line he wasn't meant to cross. It's called seduction.

    This is how the "marketers of evil" work on all of us. They transform our attitudes by making us feel as though our "super uncomfortable" feelings toward embracing unnatural or corrupt behavior of whatever sort – a discomfort literally put into us by a loving God, for our protection – somehow represent ignorance or bigotry or weakness.

    I wrote "The Marketing of Evil" to expose these people, and especially to reveal the hidden techniques they've been using for decades to confuse us, to manipulate our feelings and get us to doubt and turn our backs on the truth we once knew and loved. Indeed, whether they're outright lying to us, or ridiculing us for our traditional beliefs, or trying to make us feel guilty over some supposed bigotry on our part, the "marketers of evil" can prevail simply by intimidating or emotionally stirring us up in one way or another. Once that happens, we can easily become confused and lose the inborn understanding God gave us. We all need that inner understanding or common sense, because it's our primary protection from all the evil influences in this world.

    As I said at the outset, Hollywood has now raped the Marlboro Man. It has taken a revered symbol of America – the cowboy – with all the powerful emotions and associations that are rooted deep down in the pioneering American soul, and grafted onto it a self-destructive lifestyle it wants to force down Americans' throats. The result is a brazen propaganda vehicle designed to replace the reservations most Americans still have toward homosexuality with powerful feelings of sympathy, guilt over past "homophobia" – and ultimately the complete and utter acceptance of homosexuality as equivalent in every way to heterosexuality.

    If and when that day comes, America will have totally abandoned its core biblical principles – as well as the Author of those principles. The radical secularists will have gotten their wish, and this nation – like the traditional cowboy characters corrupted in "Brokeback Mountain" – will have stumbled down a sad, self-destructive and ultimately disastrous road.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    I am not in agreement with much of what is here, but it is foolish to think that the road that hollywood would LIKE to lead us down is not paved with real perversion and depravity. Wait until the story of the poor, misunderstood NAMBLA group--coming to a theater near you. Soon.

    hey!!i NEVER admired the marboro man!!(ok,maybe for 3 or 4 seconds or....nevermind!!)he always looked like a "F A G " to me!!with a F A G stickin outa his mouth!?(except for the 3 or 4 second thing...)so he gets his due!?and your pissed off!?hehe!!but answer me this!?who appointed you to "correct the ways of the world"!?you are too love the lost and save those who answer the call of love and suffer ANY loss in this regard!?that's the way i read my bible!?what does "YOURS" say!?.........just askin mr.god!?dont forget JOB!?keep up the "GOOD JERK" POOpman!!...hehe!!ok.......so i had a drink or 2 or..........hehe!!
    Last edited by lexx; 01-23-2006 at 07:24 AM.

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