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  1. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    1,099

    Re: LIBERALS and DEMOCRATS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17
    Well, you had used that piece of information to claim that Bush knew that Iraq wasn't reconstituting its nuclear program. When The DOE still came to the conclusion that Saddam was reconstituting its nuclear program, then wouldn't you say that Bush saying that they had a nuclear program was justified?

    In the 2002 NIE, it noted that the DOE disagreed with assessments that those tubes were for a nuclear centrifuge, but when they still come to the conclusion that he had an active nuclear program... well...

    .
    No, I used that piece of information to show how the Bush Administration clearly set out to deceive the American people. They knew the top experts in the U.S. (not to mention those from the IAEA) said the tubes weren't for a nuclear program, but most likely for the rocket program which used tubes of the same specs. And yet they still claimed things like that the tubes could "only" be used for a uranium enrichment centrifuge, a bald-faced lie.

    In the larger picture, they claimed Iraq had reconstituted it's nuclear program. Well, okay, based upon what evidence? The aluminum tubes were the primary piece of evidence used to bolster that claim, and it was a known farce.

    So what other evidence was there? When the NIE said the DOE agreed "that reconstitution of the nuclear program is underway but assesses that the tubes probably are not part of the program", what information was this alleged position of the DOE based upon?

    The issue is not what people or departments said, it's what they said vs. the evidence available at the time to support what they said. That's the issue.

    In this case, the Bush Adm. said Iraq had reconstituted its nuclear program, citing the aluminum tubes as their strongest piece of evidence. Suppose we go back in time and pretend they never raised the bogus tubes issue. What evidence did they have to support their claims that the "smoking gun" could come "in the form of a mushroom cloud"?

    They had squat, and they knew it. And that's the point.

  2. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    16

    Re: LIBERALS and DEMOCRATS

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    This forum represents an excellent opportunity to view the liberal in action...arbitrarily unleveling the playing field in order to 'win'. Win what? Does it matter? In some cases it can be something as unimportant as the last word, as it was here.

    Liberals do not like or understand competition, and they seek to eliminate it from all facets of life. It is the raison d'etre of socialism/communism..."to each according to their needs, from each...blah, blah, blah.." The truth is that all successful and long-lasting societies are ones that encourage competition and achievement in all areas.

    Everyone here remembers the kids we grew up playing ball with. We can remember the ones who were talented, not-so talented, and those who tried hard. We can also remember the ones who played with honor, who would rather lose than cheat, and we remember those who would cheat anytime the opportunity presented itself. This included everything from cheap shots to outright cheating by calling 'fouls' where none had been committed. If you did that in certain schoolyards, you would be ostracized and not welcome to play( or some kind of more...shall we say, significant...punishment) . It is those people who invariably grow up to become liberals. Liberal males are, generally, weak--both physically and morally. They do not want any laws prohibiting immoral behavior because they want to believe that everyone thinks like they do. Those that are not gay are still not traditional 'men'. They fear women instead of respect them because women have controlled them, through their own weakness, their entire lives. Even liberal women do not respect liberal men. Just ask 'em!

    As we look at the progress(?) made in the last few years to eliminate competition from the classroom, it is easy to identify those in support of it. The teachers lobby is an extremely powerful political lobby comprised almost entirely of liberals. If you are NOT a liberal, believe me, they don't want you. When it is suggested that some kind of testing be done to determine the level of educational skills that our teachers actually possess, in an effort to determine why our children aren't learning much, the shrill keening shreiking protests could are heard for miles. You see, they do not like ANYTHING that places a numerical value on something, even though that is how the actual real world functions. They do not inhabit the real world and have no intention of joining.

    Liberals seek to 'win' by cheating...Like our moderator here, if they can simply RULE something to be inadmissable as speech or behavior, regardless of whether it is 'fair' or not, they will. And, if they can simply RULE something to be legal or not, regardless of whether it is the will of the majority, they will. Because they have never been able to compete successfully, they do not comprehend the concepts of either fair play or honor. This is the creeping danger of liberal judicial activism. THEY DON'T CARE what you want.

    They want their side to win in Iraq so bad that they actually declared defeat...weeks ago. They want to convict a major republican of something, anything, so bad that they shopped several juries just to get an indictment that has no hope of success. They wanted to kill Terri Shiavo so bad, just to show that they could, that they helped a scumbag commit murder for money...They threaten cities and towns that they will draw out lawsuits until they bankrupt them if they will not remove anything Christian-related from thier flags and their cities--no matter if the city started as a mission! They seek to make it easier to kill the sick, the helpless, and the unborn and make it more difficult to enact justice against criminals. Are these things the will of the people? Of course not.

    When a mental deficient like an umdkook fires filth at someone, beside noting with amusement the eternal interest(obsession?) that liberal males have with male genitalia and rear-ends, we understand that normal Americans do not think like that.

    And while it is true that all liberals are democrats, not all democrats are liberals. In fact, I would guess that ACTUAL liberals, ACTUAL filthy, lying, cowardly, gutless, godless liberals, make up no more than 15% of the democratic party. But two things are painfully evident...that the democratic party is currently under the control of liberals, and, far less important, that this particular political forum is overrun with them. If it helps, for clarity...examples of 'Democrats' would be FDR, Truman, and even JFK. Joseph Lieberman is an example of a well-known democrat today. As a contrast, 'liberals' are best defined by people like howard dean, nancy pelosi,john kerry, and ted kennedy. Anyone see the difference?

    Democrats SHOULD be proud members of a political party whose beliefs, while often in opposition to my own, might include pride in being an American and a genuine feeling of membership and participation in this growing, changing and wildly successful country. It ain't perfect, but it is still the most important and vital in the world.

    And we should all share the knowledge that we are a country well worth saving, and that only through our disinterest or inaction will we fall prey to the sick sweat-dream the liberals have of a future that does not include the America we have known and loved AT ALL.
    So what are ya saying here ? Are you talking about American liberals or Canadian liberals? Or all of the above ? that's a broad stereotype if you are meaning all.

    As far as the baseball scenario, you were probably one of those who were not so talented and maybe tried hard to be accepted by the group. Now you are bitter and lashing out at all of those liberals who didn't accept you... So that's why you became a conservative right ? haha

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