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  1. #161
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    Dec 2005
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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    I agree with your point, but would like to clarify. The Bush regime is not "intent on increasing the threat of terror on Americans". That is not their intent. It's simply a risk they are willing to take in order to carry forth their agenda.
    What's the difference? Indeed, they will do anything to carry forth their agenda. We've known that much from the days of Nixon. If collateral damage to American life and property is incidental to their means, the intent hardly matters.

    If I burn down an apartment building as the beneficiary of a large insurance settlement, it's still murder from the perspective of the helpless victims.
    Last edited by dante; 01-06-2006 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    1,099

    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Oh, no doubt. I wasn't refuting that point at all.

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    633

    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    It's a simple thought experiment. Just think: What would it mean to fight a "war on terrorism"? Well, any sane and rational human being would say it would mean implementing policies which mitigate terrorist incidents, such as by seeking out the root causes of terrorism and dealing with the injustices that lead people to commit such heinous crimes in the first place.

    Now then, only an insane and irrational human being would say that commiting actions which are well predicted to increase the threat of terrorism can be defined as a "war on terrorism".
    I do not find the Japanese to be insane or irrational. Yet they began a war on America with actions that where very well predicted to increase the threat against Japan.

    Hitler (he does count as insane and irrational) also started a war that was predictably going to increase the threat against him.

    Being in a "War on Anything" does not mean you are doing it right. It means you have focused your efforts to achieve a goal and you are fighting with that goal in mind.

    While I may have missed it, I do not recall anyone here saying the War on Terrorism was being fought in the most efficient manner. I have often said I would not have gone into Iraq had I been the President. Afganistan yes, probably Syria, possibly Pakistan, likely Iran, and maybe even Saudi Arabia all before I ever thought about Iraq. My goal would have been to make a point that I was seriously going to do whatever it to to stop terrorism and I would do it in places where Bin Laden's group originated and roamed free.

    I would predict that Afganistan would fall rather quickly, that Pakistan would do whatever was needed to stop us from advancing, Syria or Iran would likely be the next battle ground. With that in mind, I would plan the air attacks and the ground invasions and continue diplomacy to the very moment the first missle flew.

    Just because it is being fought in a manner that may not make sense does not mean we are not fighting a War on Terror.

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,099

    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    I do not find the Japanese to be insane or irrational. Yet they began a war on America with actions that where very well predicted to increase the threat against Japan.
    I don't see the parallel you are trying to draw.

    You seem to be trying to tell me that sane and rational people can commit actions which would knowingly increase the threat of terrorism and call those actions a "war on terrorism".

    Okay, but then we get into defining "sane" and "rational". Suffice to say that performing actions knowingly increasing the threat of terrorism and calling it a "war on terrorism" is preposterous.

    Being in a "War on Anything" does not mean you are doing it right. It means you have focused your efforts to achieve a goal and you are fighting with that goal in mind.
    Fine. So what would the goal of any real "war on terrorism" be? Well, it, as any sane and rational human being could tell you, to mitigate the threat of terrorism.

    So how can we call a war waged which would knowingly increase the threat of terrorism a "war on terrorism"? It's a logical absurdity.

    I mean, you wouldn't fight a "war on drugs" by handing out crack in schools, would you?

    You wouldn't fight a "war on poverty" by eliminating aid programs to third-world countries, would you?

    You wouldn't fight a "war on violence" by beating people with a baseball bat, would you?

    Would performing any of these actions really be what their given title implies?

    I mean, I can call my dog "Cat", but he's still a dog, isn't he? Sure, a sane and rational person might call their dog "Cat". But only an insane and irrational person would actually believe their dog was a cat on account of that.

    Just because it is being fought in a manner that may not make sense does not mean we are not fighting a War on Terror.
    But doing something "in a manner that may not make sense" is the epitome of irrationality.

    It's insane and irrational to call performing actions that would knowingly increase the threat of terrorism a "war on terrorism".

    It's pure Orwellianism. You can call the ministry of propaganda the "Ministry of Truth", but it doesn't change anything.

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    633

    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirmeyahu
    I don't see the parallel you are trying to draw.
    The parallel I am trying to get you to see is that simply because you think the "War on Terrorism" is being fought in a manner that increases rather then decreases terrorism does in no way negate the idea that there is a War being fought against Terrorism.

    The Japanese and the Germans did indeed fight a war against the World, yet they fought it poorly. It was a War none the less.
    Last edited by RegulationE; 01-07-2006 at 10:42 PM.

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