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  1. #1
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    Impeachment Buzz

    Interesting point of view...
    *****************************

    http://progressive.org/mag_rcb122705


    Impeachment Buzz


    By Ruth Conniff
    December 27, 2005

    What sense does it make that some of the same Washington media and political leaders who countenanced the Clinton impeachment over a semen-stained dress, somberly intoning about the "rule of law," consider impeaching Bush beyond the pale?

    No sense at all.

    The question about impeaching Bush has nothing to do with legal grounds, and everything to do with politics.

    But in the last few weeks, the political climate has been changing, so that more people are seriously considering whether Bush has committed one or more impeachable offenses. The revelations about Bush's spying on Americans through the NSA helped change things a bit.

    Representatives Johns Conyers and John Lewis and Senator Barbara Boxer are talking, in public, about impeachment now.

    Way at the left end of the dial, there's been chatter about impeachment for a long time--at least since the grounds for war in Iraq began to fall apart. Last May, a group called After Downing Street began working on an impeachment drive.

    While no member of Congress took up the call to draft articles of impeachment, the group's efforts launched Cindy Sheehan's crusade against Bush's war.

    Now these same activists are organizing a grassroots campaign to support Representative John Conyers's bills to investigate Bush's conduct, with an eye toward impeachment (HR365) and censure Bush and Cheney for blocking Congress's access to information on intelligence manipulation, torture, and other misdeeds (HR366 and HR367).

    On January 7, there will be town hall meetings around the country to drum up public awareness and support for Conyers's effort, and to publicize a report by the Democratic staff on the Judiciary Committee entitled "The Constitution in Crisis: Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Cover-Ups in the war in Iraq." You can download the whole thing from the web site CensureBush.org.

    As more constitutional scholars, members of Congress, pundits, and American citizens talk about the grounds for impeachment, and examine the record, the drumbeat can only get louder.

    The only barrier is a sense of despair.

    True, since the Republicans control both houses of Congress, it is unlikely that impeachment articles could garner the votes to pass. But some members of Bush's own party were turning against him as Congress adjourned for the holidays, on issues like McCain's anti-torture bill, the Patriot Act, tax breaks. and budget cuts.

    And, of course, groups like Progressive Democrats of America, who are pushing impeachment, hope the Dems can pick up enough seats in 2006 to take back the House.

    There is even a PAC, called ImpeachPAC, which has raised $40,000 to support any member of Congress willing to support impeachment. The group points to a Zogby poll that shows 53 percent of Americans support impeachment if it can be proved that Bush lied about Iraq.

    At the very least, this Administration's abuse of power--the violations of civil liberties, torture of prisoners, and an arrogant insistence that the executive should be above the law when it comes to spying on Americans or launching a war--is subject to serious and open questioning. And that's a good thing.

    .

  2. #2
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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?bid=7&pid=45006

    The I-Word Is Gaining Ground
    By Katrina Vanden Heuvel
    The Nation

    Tuesday 27 December 2005

    In 1998, House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, currently under indictment on
    corruption charges, proclaimed: "This nation sits at a crossroads. One
    direction points to the higher road of the rule of law...The other road is
    the path of least resistance" in which "we pitch the law completely
    overboard when the mood fits us...[and] close our eyes to the potential
    lawbreaking...and tear an unfixable hole in our legal system." That arbiter
    of moral politics was incensed about the possibility of Bill Clinton
    escaping unpunished for his "crimes."

    Fast forward to December 2005. Not one official in the entire Bush
    Administration has been fired or indicted, not to mention impeached, for the
    shedding of American blood in Iraq or for the shredding of our Constitution
    at home. As Newsweek columnist Jonathan Alter put it-hours after the New
    York Times reported that Bush had authorized NSA wiretapping of US citizens
    without judicial warrants-this President has committed a real transgression
    that "goes beyond sex, corruption and political intrigue to big issues like
    security versus liberty and the reasonable bounds of presidential power."

    In the last months, several organizations, including AfterDowningStreet,
    Impeach Central and ImpeachPAC.org, have formed to urge Bush's impeachment.
    But until very recently, their views were virtually absent in the so-called
    "liberal" MSM, and could only be found on the Internet and in street
    protests.

    But the times they are a' changin'. The I-word has moved from the
    marginal to the mainstream-although columnists like Charles
    "torture-is-fine-by-me" Krauthammer would like us to believe that "only the
    most brazen and reckless and partisan" could support the idea. In fact, as
    Michelle Goldberg reports in Salon, "in the past few days, impeachment "has
    become a topic of considered discussion among constitutional scholars and
    experts (including a few Republicans), former intelligence officers, and
    even a few politicians." Even a moderately liberal columnist like Newsweek's
    Alter sounds like The Nation, observing: "We're seeing clearly now that Bush
    thought 9/11 gave him license to act like a dictator."

    As Editor & Publisher recently reported, the idea of impeaching Bush has
    entered the mainstream media's circulatory system-with each day producing
    more op-eds and articles on the subject. Joining the chorus on Christmas
    Eve, conservative business magazine Barron's published a lengthy editorial
    excoriating the president for committing a potentially impeachable offense.
    "If we don't discuss the program and lack of authority of it," wrote
    Barron's editorial page editor Thomas Donlan, "we are meeting the enemy-in
    the mirror."

    Public opinion is also growing more comfortable with the idea of
    impeaching this president. A Zogby International poll conducted this summer
    found that 42 percent of Americans felt that impeaching Bush would be
    justified if it was shown that he had manipulated intelligence in going to
    war in Iraq. (John Zogby admitted that "it was much higher than I
    expected.") By November, the number of those who favored impeaching Bush
    stood at 53 percent-if it was in fact proven that Bush had lied about the
    basis for invading Iraq. (And these polls were taken before the revelations
    of Bush's domestic spying.)

    For those interested in some of the most compelling charges against the
    president, I offer a brief summary:

    * Former Nixon White House counsel John Dean argued in his aptly-named
    book Worse than Watergate that Bush's false statements about WMDs in
    Iraq-used to drum up support for an invasion-deceived the American people
    and Congress. This constituted "an impeachable offense," Dean told PBS' Bill
    Moyers in 2004. "I think the case is overwhelming that these people
    presented false information to the Congress and to the American people."
    Bush's actions were actually far worse than Watergate, Dean contends,
    because "no one died for Nixon's so-called Watergate abuses."

    Lending credence to Dean's arguments, the Downing Street Memo revealed that
    Britain's MI-6 Director Richard Dearlove had told Tony Blair that "the
    intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy" by the Bush
    Administration. John Bonifaz, a Boston-based attorney and constitutional law
    expert, said that Bush seemingly "concealed important intelligence which he
    ought to have communicated," and "must certainly be punished for giving
    false information to the Senate." Bush deceived "the American people as to
    the basis for taking the nation into war against Iraq," Bonifaz argued-an
    impeachable offense.

    * Rep. John Conyers argued as well that the president committed
    impeachable offenses" because he and senior administration officials
    "countenanced torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in Iraq" at
    Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere, including Guantanamo Bay and the now-notorious
    "black sites" around the world.
    * The most compelling evidence of Bush's high crimes and misdemeanors
    is the revelation that he repeatedly authorized NSA spying on US citizens
    without obtaining the required warrants from the Foreign Intelligence
    Surveillance court. Constitutional experts, politicians and ex-intelligence
    experts agree that Bush "committed a federal crime by wiretapping
    Americans." Rep. John Lewis-"the first major House figure to suggest
    impeaching Bush," said the AP-argued that the president "deliberately,
    systematically violated the law" in authorizing the wiretapping. Lewis
    added: "He is not King, he is president."

    Meanwhile, Professor Jonathan Turley of George Washington University
    School of Law-a specialist in surveillance law-told Knight Ridder that
    Bush's actions "violated federal law" and raised "serious constitutional
    questions of high crimes and misdemeanors." It is worth remembering that an
    abuse of power similar to Bush's NSA wiretapping decision was part of the
    impeachment charge brought against Richard Nixon in 1974. [This comparison
    was brought home in the ACLU's powerful full page ad in the NYT of December
    22nd.]

    There are many reasons why it is crucial that the Democrats regain
    control of Congress in '06, but consider this one: If they do, there may be
    articles of impeachment introduced and the estimable John Conyers, who has
    led the fight to defend our constitution, would become Chair of the House
    Judiciary Committee. Wouldn't that be a truly just response to the real high
    crimes and misdemeanors that this lawbreaking president has so clearly
    committed?

    For anyone with understanding and respect for the Constitution, it is
    obvious that Bush has violated the Fourth Amendment and federal law. This is
    the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors". Clinton lying about sex is
    nothing compared to this. It is timely and responsible to talk about
    impeachment. If the Republicans were loyal to the Constitution, they would
    be discussing impeachment. Bush has declared himself king in an undeclared
    war. We don't allow kings in this country. The Founding Fathers came here to
    avoid that.

    .

  3. #3
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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Both articles do a very good job of painting the picture that Bush would be guilty if he committed the crimes in question.......but......

    It is not proven that the crimes in question are even what Bush has committed. In fact, there is as much "proof" that Bush did not commit any crimes as there is that he did.

    An investigation is probably in order, but judging by what I have read....the constitution and FISA, the Easedropping was not in violation of either.

    Investigations have come out and said that Bush did not disclose all the intel about Iraq, but what he did not disclose was more damaging to IRaq then what he did.

    The Patriot Act, while it may have gone overboard in the minds of many, was inacted by Congress not the President.

    Abu Grab will be very hard to blame on the President, unless he is even more stupid then the left wants us to believe.

    Yes, investigations should take place. And those who have committed crimes should be prosecuted, even if it turns out to be members of the Democratic Party or the President himself.
    Last edited by RegulationE; 12-28-2005 at 05:11 AM.

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    We are in very interesting times Reg. Very interesting. Definitely not boring.

    Lady Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    Both articles do a very good job of painting the picture that Bush would be guilty if he committed the crimes in question.......but......

    It is not proven that the crimes in question are even what Bush has committed. In fact, there is as much "proof" that Bush did not commit any crimes as their is that he did.

    An investigation is probably in order, but judging by what I have read....the constitution and FISA, the Easedropping was not in violation of either.

    Investigations have come out and said that Bush did not disclose all the intel about Iraq, but what he did not disclose was more damaging to IRaq then what he did.

    The Patriot Act, while it may have gone overboard in the minds of many, was inacted by Congress not the President.

    Abu Grab will be very hard to blame on the President, unless he is even more stupid then the left wants us to believe.

    Yes, investigations should take place. And those who have committed cromes should be prosecuted, even if it turns out to be members of the Democratic Party or the President himself.

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    We are in very interesting times Reg. Very interesting. Definitely not boring.

    Lady Mod

    Wow..At last. A real concession from the right: "If we commit crimes, there should be a prosecution" Now we're really getting somewhere.

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by dante
    Wow..At last. A real concession from the right: "If we commit crimes, there should be a prosecution" Now we're really getting somewhere.
    LOL, Reg has always held that conviction.

    Now if some of the others say the same thing, WOW, then we are getting somewhere.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by dante
    Wow..At last. A real concession from the right: "If we commit crimes, there should be a prosecution" Now we're really getting somewhere.
    Dante,

    If you hadn't labeled me as a neocon and there fore disregarded anything I post, you would see I don't think ANYONE should get away with committing crimes. :)

    I do like to have proof and a trial (or impeachment hearing) before convicting anyone. Just a minor detail that I think should not be left out. ;)

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    LOL, Reg has always held that conviction.

    Now if some of the others say the same thing, WOW, then we are getting somewhere.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod
    Yes that would be something special!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    Both articles do a very good job of painting the picture that Bush would be guilty if he committed the crimes in question.......but......

    It is not proven that the crimes in question are even what Bush has committed. In fact, there is as much "proof" that Bush did not commit any crimes as there is that he did.

    An investigation is probably in order, but judging by what I have read....the constitution and FISA, the Easedropping was not in violation of either.
    Hmmm. Have you been to a good ophthalmologist lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by regulationE
    Investigations have come out and said that Bush did not disclose all the intel about Iraq, but what he did not disclose was more damaging to IRaq then what he did.
    Uhhh..What "investigations" were those??? You probably mean some Bill O'Reilley and Limbaugh are talking about ..right? Do you own any bridges by chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by regulationE
    The Patriot Act, while it may have gone overboard in the minds of many, was inacted by Congress not the President.
    Excuse me while I barf. Just because the Congress is nothing more than a pit loaded with spineless snakes, doesn't qualify Bush for a pass. If we were really what we try to sell ourselves as, Bush would have been impeached for lying to Congress long ago. Now he should be indicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by regulationE
    Abu Grab will be very hard to blame on the President, unless he is even more stupid then the left wants us to believe.
    Not really. Try this. Say: "I Blame Bush For Abu Ghraib" See how easy it is? You know why? Because it has the ring of truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by regulationE
    Yes, investigations should take place. And those who have committed crimes should be prosecuted, even if it turns out to be members of the Democratic Party or the President himself.
    That's pretty tough. You mean if Bush commits a felony EVEN HE should be prosecuted? Whoooo. You better be careful what you type, buddy. That sounds like something Bin Laden would say. I wonder if there's a bounty program in place at HomeLand Security. Hmmmmmm. ......
    Last edited by dante; 12-28-2005 at 05:51 AM.

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Well we started to get somewhere....guess it was an illusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by dante
    Not really. Try this. Say: "I Blame Bush For Abu Ghraib" See how easy it is? You know why? Because it has the ring of truth.
    You are right, I was mistaken, Bush can in fact be blamed. What I should have said was Proving Bush was responsible will be tough to do.

    The accuser, in this case the left, has the burden of proof in each and every accusation they make. To this day, there has been no proof worthy enough of bringing charges against the President for the crimes being accused.

    Blaming the President for the Patriot Act is nuts. Congress, no matter how slanted you believe they are, passed the Patriot Act, and will likely pass a version of it again in a month. Had it not been endorsed by Congress, it wold not have made it to the President. This is factual information, the kind that allows for people to make informed decisions ;)

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    While I collect the information as to the investigations that say Bush did not lie about the intel, this is some interesting reading.

    Complete Article

    "Leon E. Panetta appearing on C-SPAN's Washington Journal this Monday morning ( 10-28-03 8:20 AM EST ) said that he was in the White House and that President Clinton received the same intelligence information about the danger of Iraq's WMD's as President Bush did. He believes that President Clinton did what he thought was best and that President Bush did what he thought was best. Panetta was responding to a caller about the Iraq situation. He stated that either there was a massive intelligence failure or the intelligence community was lied to or both.

    Panetta is a former Democratic congressman, the former Clinton White House Director of OMB, and Clinton's former Chief of Staff. He is saying that Bush was not lying and that there is no Neocon/Zionist conspiracy."

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Dante....you may be right. While I am was gathering documentation about the investigations I came across some pretty distrubing information. These comments are pretty straight forward and maybe it does in fact indicate we where in fact lied to.

    These statements, after reading through them again, indicate someone was lieing either then or now.

    1. "[W]e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. … And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War."

    2. "We owe it to America's parents and our country's troops … to have our decision on going to war with Iraq informed by the latest threat assessment that cross-analyzes agency intelligence about Saddam Hussein's arsenal of weapons of mass destruction."

    3. "I think all of us are deeply concerned about the degree to which certain countries seem to be contributing to the potential of instability in the world. Obviously, there is nothing more destabilizing or threatening than weapons of mass destruction. We have spent an enormous amount of time and energy focused on Iraq …"

    4. Saddam Had Used WMD And Intended "To Do So" Again. "Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East."

    5. "Americans need to really understand the gravity and legitimacy of what is happening with Saddam Hussein. He has been given every opportunity in the world to comply. The president does not control the schedule of UNSCOM. The president did not withdraw the UNSCOM inspectors. And the president did not, obviously, cut a deal with Saddam Hussein to do this at this moment. Saddam Hussein has not complied. Saddam Hussein is pursuing a program to build weapons of mass destruction."

    6. "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."

    7. "Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq… Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors… The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today that, left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again… I have ordered a strong sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors… The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power he threatens the well being of his people, the peace of this region, the security of the world… He will make war on his own people. And mark my words; he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them and he will use them."

    8. "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here, for the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face, and it is a threat against which we must and will stand firm."

    9. "When I vote to give the president of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security…."

    10. "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."

    11. "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

    12. "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

    13. "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process. The responsibility of the United States in this conflict is to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, to minimize the danger to our troops and to diminish the suffering of the Iraqi people."

    14. "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

    15. "I think Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction are a threat, and that's why I voted to hold him accountable and to make certain that we disarm him. I think we need to, but it's not September 11th, folks, and the fact is that what we've learned is that the war on terror is much more of an intelligence operation and a law enforcement operation."

    So who said these things and when/where were they said?

    1. (Senator John Kerry, Remarks At Georgetown University, Washington, DC, 1/23/03)
    2. (Faye Bowers, "Iraq's Pursuit Of Nuclear Weapons Called ‘Unrelenting'," [Salt Lake City] Deseret News, 9/18/02)
    3. (Senator John Kerry, Congressional Record, 9/11/00) In 2000, After Eight Years On Intelligence Committee, Kerry Cited Threat Of Iraq's WMD.
    4. (Senator John Kerry, Press Conference, 2/23/98)
    5. (Senator John Kerry, Press Conference, 12/16/98)
    6. ("US: [Bill] Clinton Says Diplomatic Solution Preferable In Iraq," AAP Newsfeed, 2/5/98)
    7. ("Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq Attack," Agence France Presse, 12/17/98)
    8. ("Secretary Of State Madeleine Albright, Secretary Of Defense William Cohen And National Security Adviser Sandy Berger Participate In Town Hall Meeting," Federal News Service, 2/18/98)
    9. (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10174)
    10. ("Remarks By Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA) At The Johns Hopkins School Of Advanced International Studies," Federal News Service, 9/27/02)
    11. (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)
    12. (Sen. Bob Graham And Others, Letter To President George W. Bush, 12/5/01 as quoted in Dennis Jenkins, Letter To The Editor, The Bellingham Herald, 10/2/03)
    13. (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, "Statement On U.S. Led Military Strike Against Iraq," Press Release, 12/16/98)
    14. ("Text Of Remarks By Former Vice President Al Gore At The Commonwealth Club, San Francisco," Federal News Service, 9/23/02)
    15. (Sen. John Kerry As Quoted On NPR's "All Things Considered," 3/19/03)

  13. #13
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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    You see? Even the democrats can be fooled when presented with incomplete intel. Shameful democrats believing everything that they are told.

    Baaa baaa, sheep!

    :D

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    You see? Even the democrats can be fooled when presented with incomplete intel. Shameful democrats believing everything that they are told.

    Baaa baaa, sheep!

    :D
    I agree, but I would say shameful politicians!

    Democrats have a problem here in my opinion. If they claim they where duped into believing the intel during the Clinton Administration and that Bush was able to pull the wool over their eyes as well, how in the world can anyone believe they are going to have the brains to do what needs to be done?

    They would have been much better served had they simply agreed the intel was wrong and that they made their decision based on what they thought they knew based on that flawed intel. Then go about fixing the problem with the intelligence gathering system. Go about formulating a plan to get the job done in Iraq and get out.

    I am not a huge fan of President Bush right now, but not for the reasons that the left wants me to not be a fan of his. He has not done a good enough job of explaining what is going on, what we are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again, and how we are going to get Iraq wrapped up and our troops redeloyed somewhere else.

    There are elections coming in 2006, that is the reason we are getting hit from every direction with he said she siad crap. In my opinion of course. NO ONE in Congress has the spine to stand up for what they believe in other then when the belief they should get re-elected at any cost.

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    I agree, but I would say shameful politicians!

    Democrats have a problem here in my opinion. If they claim they where duped into believing the intel during the Clinton Administration and that Bush was able to pull the wool over their eyes as well, how in the world can anyone believe they are going to have the brains to do what needs to be done?

    They would have been much better served had they simply agreed the intel was wrong and that they made their decision based on what they thought they knew based on that flawed intel. Then go about fixing the problem with the intelligence gathering system. Go about formulating a plan to get the job done in Iraq and get out.

    I am not a huge fan of President Bush right now, but not for the reasons that the left wants me to not be a fan of his. He has not done a good enough job of explaining what is going on, what we are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again, and how we are going to get Iraq wrapped up and our troops redeloyed somewhere else.

    There are elections coming in 2006, that is the reason we are getting hit from every direction with he said she siad crap. In my opinion of course. NO ONE in Congress has the spine to stand up for what they believe in other then when the belief they should get re-elected at any cost.
    And we do agree on this as well.

    OMG, people will start talking now. Whatever shall we do? :eek:

    LM

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    Re: Impeachment Buzz

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    Dante....you may be right. While I am was gathering documentation about the investigations I came across some pretty distrubing information. These comments are pretty straight forward and maybe it does in fact indicate we where in fact lied to.

    These statements, after reading through them again, indicate someone was lieing either then or now.

    1. "[W]e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. … And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War."

    2. "We owe it to America's parents and our country's troops … to have our decision on going to war with Iraq informed by the latest threat assessment that cross-analyzes agency intelligence about Saddam Hussein's arsenal of weapons of mass destruction."

    3. "I think all of us are deeply concerned about the degree to which certain countries seem to be contributing to the potential of instability in the world. Obviously, there is nothing more destabilizing or threatening than weapons of mass destruction. We have spent an enormous amount of time and energy focused on Iraq …"

    4. Saddam Had Used WMD And Intended "To Do So" Again. "Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East."

    5. "Americans need to really understand the gravity and legitimacy of what is happening with Saddam Hussein. He has been given every opportunity in the world to comply. The president does not control the schedule of UNSCOM. The president did not withdraw the UNSCOM inspectors. And the president did not, obviously, cut a deal with Saddam Hussein to do this at this moment. Saddam Hussein has not complied. Saddam Hussein is pursuing a program to build weapons of mass destruction."

    6. "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."

    7. "Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq… Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors… The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today that, left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again… I have ordered a strong sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors… The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power he threatens the well being of his people, the peace of this region, the security of the world… He will make war on his own people. And mark my words; he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them and he will use them."

    8. "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here, for the risk that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face, and it is a threat against which we must and will stand firm."

    9. "When I vote to give the president of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security…."

    10. "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."

    11. "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

    12. "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

    13. "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process. The responsibility of the United States in this conflict is to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, to minimize the danger to our troops and to diminish the suffering of the Iraqi people."

    14. "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

    15. "I think Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction are a threat, and that's why I voted to hold him accountable and to make certain that we disarm him. I think we need to, but it's not September 11th, folks, and the fact is that what we've learned is that the war on terror is much more of an intelligence operation and a law enforcement operation."

    So who said these things and when/where were they said?

    1. (Senator John Kerry, Remarks At Georgetown University, Washington, DC, 1/23/03)
    2. (Faye Bowers, "Iraq's Pursuit Of Nuclear Weapons Called ‘Unrelenting'," [Salt Lake City] Deseret News, 9/18/02)
    3. (Senator John Kerry, Congressional Record, 9/11/00) In 2000, After Eight Years On Intelligence Committee, Kerry Cited Threat Of Iraq's WMD.
    4. (Senator John Kerry, Press Conference, 2/23/98)
    5. (Senator John Kerry, Press Conference, 12/16/98)
    6. ("US: [Bill] Clinton Says Diplomatic Solution Preferable In Iraq," AAP Newsfeed, 2/5/98)
    7. ("Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq Attack," Agence France Presse, 12/17/98)
    8. ("Secretary Of State Madeleine Albright, Secretary Of Defense William Cohen And National Security Adviser Sandy Berger Participate In Town Hall Meeting," Federal News Service, 2/18/98)
    9. (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10174)
    10. ("Remarks By Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA) At The Johns Hopkins School Of Advanced International Studies," Federal News Service, 9/27/02)
    11. (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)
    12. (Sen. Bob Graham And Others, Letter To President George W. Bush, 12/5/01 as quoted in Dennis Jenkins, Letter To The Editor, The Bellingham Herald, 10/2/03)
    13. (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, "Statement On U.S. Led Military Strike Against Iraq," Press Release, 12/16/98)
    14. ("Text Of Remarks By Former Vice President Al Gore At The Commonwealth Club, San Francisco," Federal News Service, 9/23/02)
    15. (Sen. John Kerry As Quoted On NPR's "All Things Considered," 3/19/03)
    Then who are the liars?

    "The sanctions, as they are called, have succeeded over the last 10 years, not in deterring him from moving in that direction, but from actually being able to move in that direction. The Iraqi regime militarily remains fairly weak. It doesn't have the capacity it had 10 or 12 years ago. It has been contained. And even though we have no doubt in our mind that the Iraqi regime is pursuing programs to develop weapons of mass destruction -- chemical, biological and nuclear -- I think the best intelligence estimates suggest that they have not been terribly successful. There's no question that they have some stockpiles of some of these sorts of weapons still under their control, but they have not been able to break out, they have not been able to come out with the capacity to deliver these kinds of systems or to actually have these kinds of systems that is much beyond where they were 10 years ago." --Colin Powell / May 2001, Powell testified before the Foreign Operations, Export Financing and Related Programs Subcommittee of the Senate Appropriations Committee.

    "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq..."-- Colin Powell / Press conference on 24 February 2001 during Powell's visit to Cairo

    "But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt." -- Condoleeza Rice / 29 July 2001, Condoleezza Rice appeared on CNN Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer

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