View Poll Results: What's it gonna be?

Voters
10. This poll is closed
  • Adult discussion?

    9 90.00%
  • Fire at Will?

    1 10.00%
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  1. #1
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    What's it gonna be, children?

    http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=136700&postcount=45

    Do we behave like adults and enjoy adult discussion or do we return to the O.K. Coral and continue to shoot at each other?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    9

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Depends on who you are and what kind of purposes you gonna reach... If you want a discussion you'll get it... If you want abusing be sure you'll get shot in ass... So there must be third option in the poll...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    656

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schnaps
    Depends on who you are and what kind of purposes you gonna reach... If you want a discussion you'll get it... If you want abusing be sure you'll get shot in ass... So there must be third option in the poll...
    The purpose is to either have the forum moderated or not! Lady Mod has decided to leave the Political forum un-moderated. I am polling the members to ask if they would prefer moderation or not!
    Care to vote? :D

    (Added) Sorry, I am not asking for Lady Mod to continue moderating the political forum. I am asking the members of the forum if they would prefer adult discussion or an all out brawl! Two answers...Yes or No! Couldn't be easier.

    Think about it.
    Last edited by catch-22; 12-27-2005 at 05:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    6,553

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    People get out of this forum what they put into it. We will always have those who either cannot see another point of view or their world view does not permit one.
    Intolerance is a common trait among extremists... on the left and on the right. Both are too blind to realize it.

    cheers,
    Paul

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    9

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by catch-22
    The purpose is to either have the forum moderated or not! Lady Mod has decided to leave the Political forum un-moderated. I am polling the members to ask if they would prefer moderation or not!
    Care to vote?
    Ok... Then I'm gonna vote for moderation... If the moderation means ban people for personal abusing and offence not for their political views...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Richmond, Texas
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    51

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    I vote for moderation. I realize I am new here, but if the discussion is not civil, then I would willingly choose to not participate.

  7. #7
    umdkook Guest

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    the only difference between the two options is that some people use curse words and direct insults to others, while some choose to be general in their comments and dont curse....otherwise to me the politics forum is not an adult discussion in the sense of teh word, but rather just what it is....a posting forum where people say what they want.


    just becuase myself and maybe some others choose to curse or single people out, we are not doing anything different than others who just use the words "liberals/neo-cons" and make up lies.


    frankly, id rather be honest and forethright than hide behind BS generalizations that are only intended to blast one side or the other.


    so in essense the poll is really not a classification at all, becuase the "adult" discussion" is the same as "firing at will", just without curses and sexual oreientation comments.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    12,866

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schnaps
    Ok... Then I'm gonna vote for moderation... If the moderation means ban people for personal abusing and offence not for their political views...
    Quote Originally Posted by jmclaughtx
    I vote for moderation. I realize I am new here, but if the discussion is not civil, then I would willingly choose to not participate.
    Please both of you, explain more specifically what you mean by personal abuse and offence, and not civil.

    I don't think anyone has ever been banned for their political views.
    **********************

    I'm trying to get an idea exactly what it is people want by way of moderation here.

    Thank you,

    Lady Mod

  9. #9
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    3,392

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Please both of you, explain more specifically what you mean by personal abuse and offence, and not civil.

    I don't think anyone has ever been banned for their political views.
    **********************

    I'm trying to get an idea exactly what it is people want by way of moderation here.

    Thank you,

    Lady Mod

    EVERYONE, be respectful of others. Recognize, accept that each individual
    has a right to their own personal belief, opinion, even though it disagrees
    with others.
    Refrain from "brow-beating", threatening, being hostile in discussions that
    involve positions, ideas, attitudes that clash with theirs.
    Everyone had enough of punks, toughs and bullies in school. Go somewhere
    else if THEY want to be this way!
    Bottom line: BE CIVIL!
    Thanks! ;)

  10. #10
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    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by umdkook

    just becuase myself and maybe some others choose to curse or single people out, we are not doing anything different than others who just use the words "liberals/neo-cons" and make up lies.
    Specifically, what the moderators were told when we agreed to be moderators was to ban anyone who curses and anyone who makes a death threat. Those were the rules.

    I'll say it because it's true and I was the moderator who spent the most time on the political forum, I was the first to start modifying the rules to allow others who just wish to express their point of view without being attacked to do so in relative peace.

    Once that happened I started getting complaints on board and in PM about people's use of the word "monkeys". Seriously, that was the complaint. No one wanted to be called a monkey. And when I said that wasn't against the rules I was showing favortism. So, I attempted to modify some of the rules again. I allowed the "monkey" names and any names as long as they weren't directed at any one person in the forum. That lasted about a week.

    Eventually I got pissed off enough I came up with the kinder and gentler forum rules. But it seems that I am always having to re-explain those as well and people want to put their own spin on what they mean. So, maybe members here could kindly explain in detail what they want to see and then I'll get with the other moderators and we will decide what is doable and what isn't.

    I don't live on these boards. So these rules are going to have to be reasonable enough that once in place no one is going to have to constantly moderate this forum. Furthermore, moderators post here, I am not nuetral or brain dead on the subjects discussed. I'm tired of being faulted for having an opinion just because I also moderate. I've always allowed others to disagree with me, but bashing a moderator simply because one can not come up with a more creative insult than to throw the "moderator" insult out will not be tolerated. It's not fair to single me out either just because I am a moderator here as if one's responsibilities to the forum were somehow indicative to their personal opinion.

    Well, I'm off my soapbox. Please explain in further detail what it is you want.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    633

    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Please both of you, explain more specifically what you mean by personal abuse and offence, and not civil.

    I don't think anyone has ever been banned for their political views.
    **********************

    I'm trying to get an idea exactly what it is people want by way of moderation here.

    Thank you,

    Lady Mod

    Without regard to race, religion, party affiliation, liberal or conservative viewpoint, etc. rules of conversation can be very straight forward.

    1) Don't cuss or write in a manner that allows cuss words to show up in the forum.
    2) Do not personally attack posters on this forum or their families.

    Some things are simply obvious in a general sense.

    If you are conservative you think that liberals in general are out of touch, stupid, tearing this country apart, treasonous, and the list goes on.

    If you are liberal you think conservatives in general are followers, brain dead, stupid, blind, equal to monkeys, and the list goes on.

    If you are somewhere in the middle you will be labeled in here as either liberal or conservative based on the first few post you make by the side that is taking offense to the post.

    As I have said many times before, if the moderator is liberally biased then they will be much quicker to ban conservatives. If the moderator is conservatively biased, they will be quicker to ban liberals.

    It is very hard to read a post that is in opposition to your view point and not take offense to the person posting it. Doesn't matter which side of the line you are on. This is why liberal posters tend to get a pass on things that a conservative posters would not.

    If one really take into consideration the posts that are pointed out when someone asks why a poster is allowed to remain, one would see there is not a request to sensor political views, it is a request to apply the banning authority equally. Most of the bans that took place in the past month where just. One was not, but only because the reason for banning the poster was not applied to all parties guilty of the same offense.

    Yes this was long (my even call it preachy), but posting is the only method we have to express our views on issues.

    EDIT NOTE:

    It is very hard to moderate a forum that you also post to. George could have created different log in names that should have been used to moderate with instead of simply giving moderation priviliges to the users as he did. I have learned this from experience. Generally speaking, when our company set up forums that required a moderator, we created the user names Moderator1, Moderator2, etc. to use for actual moderating. That allowed the moderators to also post under their old screen name and no one was the wiser. It is very hard to do it any other way and not get insults because of personal views on issues.
    Last edited by RegulationE; 12-27-2005 at 10:14 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    I would vote for the 3rd option on the poll....if there was one.
    I'd vote for "A little of both". :cool:

  13. #13
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    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE

    EDIT NOTE:

    It is very hard to moderate a forum that you also post to. George could have created different log in names that should have been used to moderate with instead of simply giving moderation priviliges to the users as he did. I have learned this from experience. Generally speaking, when our company set up forums that required a moderator, we created the user names Moderator1, Moderator2, etc. to use for actual moderating. That allowed the moderators to also post under their old screen name and no one was the wiser. It is very hard to do it any other way and not get insults because of personal views on issues.
    That would have been nice, but that didn't happen. I thought about creating a different screen name just for posting but I seriously doubt by now that I would fool anyone other than new people to the forum.

    The best I can offer is to listen and create rules that are general enough that my bias would not interfere with the moderating and yet allow those less vocal a safe place to post their opinions as well. You have good ideas, but I don't know if they would go far enough. There is still the threads that are created just to piss people off. Angry people break rules. So who does one ban, the people who are angry and curse and attack or the person who created the thread to elicit that kind of response in the first place? When I ban the person who created the thread, some people got ticked off and say I'm wrong.

    Right now Reg, I'm in a lose, lose situation, so I'll back off and let you guys figure out the best way to handle that kind of situation with your suggestions.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  14. #14
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    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Please both of you, explain more specifically what you mean by personal abuse and offence, and not civil.

    I don't think anyone has ever been banned for their political views.
    **********************

    I'm trying to get an idea exactly what it is people want by way of moderation here.

    Thank you,

    Lady Mod
    My idea of being civil is this:

    When a person questions my facts, I would like to see applied logic that soundly defeats my facts.

    I am not offended if I post something I felt was true and someone shows me I was incorrect in a logical manner, but I disregard as bogus when someone just name calls and tries to intimidate or bully me on a forum.

    I do not fall for most conspiracy theories about Bush for instance, because I also did not fall for the one's about Clinton either.

    Opposing politics can be emotional, but does not have to be rude.

    A good example would be where YOU lady mod challenged me to point out basically where any one on this board had shown a hatred for our military. I could not find any statements where someone said they hated our soldiers, but it is hinted at in the pictures that were posted and the verbage used about cookies. So in essence, you were correct, I was wrong in my statement about the "twisted view of the left on this board".

    That is what I expect in posting, being adult enough to know when you were incorrect and then move on down the road. As far as cursing here, I have no need for it because I do not feel the need to prop myself up with that behavior, It is just a personal choice on my part.

  15. #15
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    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmclaughtx

    A good example would be where YOU lady mod challenged me to point out basically where any one on this board had shown a hatred for our military. I could not find any statements where someone said they hated our soldiers, but it is hinted at in the pictures that were posted and the verbage used about cookies. So in essence, you were correct, I was wrong in my statement about the "twisted view of the left on this board".
    Jm, you said that liberals on this forum showed hatred towards our soldiers. I said Show me where Any liberal on this forum had shown any hatred towards our soldiers.

    You were specific in your accusation, I merely was just as specific in my response. I told you to be very careful how you answered because it's been my experience on this board that many will make these kinds of accusations and then for evidence post opinion or hints, but nothing factual to back up the accusation, certainly not anything that I can use for reason to ban anyone. That is the only reason I wanted you to be specific. If I came across rude it was in response to a very loaded accusation that could have caused all kinds of problems had I not responded the way I did. You would be surprised at how often those making similar accusations will totally ignore my request for the proof unless I get rude.

    I had no way of knowing that early in your posting career that you would be any other way. Now I do.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  16. #16
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    Re: What's it gonna be, children?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    The best I can offer is to listen and create rules that are general enough that my bias would not interfere with the moderating and yet allow those less vocal a safe place to post their opinions as well. You have good ideas, but I don't know if they would go far enough.
    Experience has taught me that general rules are very hard to apply to anyone without someone thinking they are not being applied fairly.

    Specific rules, straight forward and easy to understand tend to be the best policy from my experience.

    Saying you can not type cuss words is such a way to allow them to appear on the forum is very specific and easy to apply. This allows someone to type ass but not a$$ when posting. While they are the same, it is easy to skip a post after a quick scan for ***if you are going to be offended by the use of these words.


    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    There is still the threads that are created just to piss people off.
    A rule that says you can not post a thread that is intended to piss people off is so general that one could never post in a political forum because I guarantee someone will get pissed off at a topic no matter what it is. This leaves you open to judging based on your view instead of hard facts as to what was posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Angry people break rules. So who does one ban, the people who are angry and curse and attack or the person who created the thread to elicit that kind of response in the first place?
    You ban the person who used the cursing in the thread. There are many threads started here that piss me off to no end, but I choose not to resort to cursing in the reply because that is definitely against the rules without question. Plus, with only a few exceptions, it really doesn't add anything to the reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Right now Reg, I'm in a lose, lose situation, so I'll back off and let you guys figure out the best way to handle that kind of situation with your suggestions.
    Yes I am sure you feel backed into a corner. Moderating a forum is no easy task and it is a thankless job. Very specific rules do help, the kind that leaves no doubt when they are broken no matter what your affiliation is.

    In other forums, we used the specific rule that if the forum software inserted **** in place of a word, then it was off limits with the exception of the word ter.m or term.s because we could not figure out why those where banned....lol.

    The only other rule we had was that if your attack turned definitely personal towards a fellow member of the forum you would be removed for a week the first time and forever the next time. This is much harder to sometimes determine which is why we added the "definitely" to it. We would base it on the specific thread in question and look at it from the eyes of someone only reading that thread. If you could not tell if they where attacking someone personally in the thread it we let it go, if you could we banned the poster.

    You really do a very good job when it comes to banning (and I say this without judging your motives) conservatives. As I said before, there has only been one I would disagree with. You do tend to be much softer on liberals (again I am not judging your motive) when it comes to banning them. I do not blame you, the rules you are trying to work under are too vague to allow me to form any other opinion. It is a problem with the rules, not the moderator.

    Consider more specific rules and I believe you will find it much easier to deal with. Kind of like the rule of "No referral links allowed" that is easy to see and no one can complain when they get removed or the member gets banned.

    Sorry if this is preachy :) just trying to help you turn this into a win-win instead of a lose-lose situation so we can all get back to good old fashioned fighting.....lol

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