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  1. #33
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    Good posting until......the link to A-Q.


    Whose that Zarqawi guy? Where did he come from? When was he given safe passage and benefit of country? Oh, that's right - he was there before we entered country. I remember "you're with us or against us" --- do you?

    This, of course doesn't mention all the other links that intellegence agencies all over the globe have concluded about the privious links between the two groups. I personally think that Saddam had something to do with the Oklahoma City bombing. Would that count for you? I think that the present administration has squashed any linking to OKC in order to assist the previous administration from further embarassment. Sad but probable.

    Zarqawi? Interesting person (fiend)... he's a Jordanian, that was releashed
    from prison on some sort of national forgiveness move, by the king?
    Bigggg mistake. Al Queida? you betcha. What I have been considereding
    though was WHO WAS PRESENT when we went into Iraq, principally
    the second time.
    My point here: we should have anticiapted that we were going to create
    an out of balance situation and these _____________ would promptly
    geather there to kill americans. We failed in planning on this there, as well
    as securing all the records and sensitive property and going after weapons
    caches. But, oh well, what as mess!
    Such nut cases as Zarqawi weren't there then as far as I could discern
    (yep, I do miss timing on some things, so mayber the other way, as in
    he was there at the onset.
    However, I think after he was sprung from the Jordanian prison he
    hot-footed over to Pakistan to be with 'Bro Ben-laudin (why do I always
    think of Smith Brother's Coug drops when Ihear the name Ben-laudin? :D
    Anyhow, not sure where Zarqawi emerged, but think after he graduated
    from terrorist training camp with this Jihadddddy waddy buddies.
    Tim McVeigh connected with Sadaam in respect to the Oklahoma City
    action? I PERSONALLY don't think so (opinion of course)... after all what do
    we stiffs out here really know at any given time in a day?
    I might possibly remember, tonight, what I had for breakfast
    this morning. How many times I relieved myself? Who gets mental about
    that? Most of what we ALL THINK that we known trickles down throughCNN, FOX, ABC, NBC,CBS... where do they get it? you know - through filters
    and "crumbs" that are intentionally dropped on the floor, so to speak".
    I was with the Security Service for about seven years, use to handle
    sensitive info, which I cannot and wont get into. A lot of it was intelligence
    that concerned "cold-war" activities between western countries and
    Soviet Bloc countries (intentionally indirect and vague). What we saw
    was bone-chilling and terrorizing. It was often in a foregin country.
    I would often picture America in my mind, the people at large I new
    the majority fast asleep or humping away in bed, mindless, clueless,
    ignorance is bliss sorta' circumstances. And, for instance something around
    30 nuclear weapons loaded heavy bombers were thundering to the south
    across the Artic Ice Cap, testing our Dew Line defenses once again.
    Went on, night after night. Our fighters would be scrambled, they would
    make visual contact, make threatening passes, even exchange F.Y. finger
    gestures. The bombers would turn around, our fighters would land....
    next move! I wondered what our people would think if they really knew.
    Most never did.
    So, the point is, here... what do we really know? How much say or control
    do we stiffs out here have in everday life's circumstances? Hey! go
    to the store, get groceries... what do you want to eat tonight? Pay the
    C.C. bills, balance check book, blah, blah blah... Sad to say, I don't think
    even the President's in charge, got control... none of them, never, ever.
    We're riding along on the back of a juggernaut that is undefinable and
    indeterminable.
    Heard of the Illumaniti? That's ALWAYS something to keep in focus? Who's
    really in control calling the shots? I think it all comes down to big business.
    Wealth is power anywhere one goes in the world. It transcends all
    borders and nationalities. You know there are individuals that would
    murder (have, their own relatives, friends) for the sake of property,
    money. So to an international group of powerful individuals who is,
    what is, so precious, dear to them that is NOT worth sacrificing. Their-
    self's. That's all! Why are military combatants lives bought so cheaply?
    Mainating the bottom line of largerst possible return on invest and still
    get the job done. Manipulate, divert attention to other things that are
    going on in the world, THAT SOMEONE DOESN"T WANT THE STIFFS to
    catch on to.
    McVeigh connected to Sadaam? Nah! McVeigh was pure and simple
    very angry over the Waco, Texas fiasco where Janet Reno had the
    Branch Davidians murdered. Despise her to this day for that. There were
    many innocent human beings, actually most of them, that were burned
    alive in that conflagiration because they really felt their Armageddon
    had arrived. If they came out of the building they thought they would
    be shot to death. I am not sure what connection McVeigh had to the
    Davidan situation. Maybe just that he was a Desert Storm Veteran
    and was, so to speak, touched in the head by the carnage he witnessed
    in Iraq and Kuwait.
    Ya know, a lot of these young men really come back warped in their minds
    because of what they have witnessed and been brought to perpatrate on
    other human beings. Things, for instance, sorta' like you related about
    what Williams done to his victims in your "Tookie" thread. Only thing is,
    when these guys are doing it there In combat it is legal. What a mess!
    I have one aquaintance, an Army veteran that was exiled to the woods in the
    remote Oklahoma mountains, or given the alternative of being incarcarated
    in a lunatic prison for life: he laid down on the street in front of a bus in
    Oklahoma City with the idea that he was going to get on the bus when it
    stopped and kill everyone on board with an M-16. Irrational? You betcha.
    But a lot of these guys come back maimed in mind as well as body. THis
    guy to this day chug-a-lugs Thorozine, chain smokes Pot, Cocaine,
    whatever he can get his hands on. Helicopters fly over (marajuana
    growing surveillane in the forest area) he runs out and fires an automatic
    rifle into the sky. Also in the dead of night. He's a V.N. veteran, two
    Purple Hearts. Last time he was wounded, the next thing ne knew
    was when he regained conscieness from a coma, about 4 months
    later. That's the only way he realized he was still amongst the living.
    Me sympathetic with McVeigh, in case anyone gets that idea? Not hardly.
    Don't condone such as that, but would have perhaps better understood
    if he had waited on the weekend when the building was empty...but
    hardly never.
    Remember Ruby Ridge, where the mother had gone through the back
    door into her house and a F.B.I. sniper fired through the window of the
    door, stiking her in the back? Dead! She was carrying a baby in her arms.
    They had previously shot the family's dog to silence it from barking
    and giving away their position. Noone ever went to prison for that!
    Is it "we the people that are the government, or is it we the people that are
    the enemy of the government?"
    Don't like such acts, but I think I understand the frustration of individuals
    that are outraged at some things, especially what government does and feels
    powerless to set it right.
    I think at times there are government acts that should be identified as
    terrorism against the people as well and those responsible should be
    held accountable.
    Every hearing I've ever witnessed though, they talk to these individuals,
    but you can tell by the way that they are talking to those interviewed
    that they are 'just exercising a formality.'
    And the beat goes on, clock ticking, waiting for further developments.
    Interesting life, eh?
    Not that I don't give a damn, but I just get on with my life and don't
    allow most of this stuff to reside in my mind, including not to buy into
    any particular party loyalty. I am constantly watching and don't want
    my mind clouded by a mind trip put upon me by some power faction.
    I look at the person, watch their body language when possible; you can
    tell a lot by body language you know. There are experts that can tell when
    a person is lieing or not being honest, straight-forward, by eye diversion
    and gestures.
    Every human being is apt, inclined to, at times, be weak, make errors of
    judgement. But hopefully where, especially, others lives are not at stake.
    And especially where they are insulated from harm.
    If I make a mistake with a key while typing this, I can back-space and
    type-over, simple gesture. Same true when writing with a pencil. Misspell
    a word? Erase and rewrite; once had a Major tell me: "you see this pencil?
    Most every pencil I've ever saw sold or provided has an thing at one end
    called an eraser. It is for correcting mistakes. We all make mistakes, so
    that is why pencil's commonly have erasers. Only thing is, we each one
    that are responsbile individuals want to make as sure as possible that
    we don't commit and act that, especially, gets someone hirt or lose their
    life. Then, as much as possible we want to know in our heart that such
    an act was necessary.
    RANT OUT - OVer!

  2. #34
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    Ummmm---- Bacardi, I'm sorry for interjecting here, but you and your pseudo cronies here may want to investigate the violations of the 'cease fire' at the end of 'Gulf I'. As I remember the terms, they weren't supposed to fire anti-aircraft anything against the planes that enforced the 'No Fly Zones'; upon doing so, they became fully engaged in an act of war. Put that in your daisy bongs and smoke that for a while. The responses from the left are typical and uneducated, no wonder you're deemed irrelevant so easily. Sheeze! :cool:
    All this from the man who didn't remember that Hitler declared war on the United States?

    January 2001
    Iraq: 10 Years After Gulf War
    http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol6/v6n01iraq_body.html

    The U.S. effectively coddled Hussein’s dictatorial regime during the 1980s with economic and military aid, likely emboldening the invasion of Kuwait.
    The 1991 Gulf War forced the withdrawal of Iraqi troops from Kuwait and led to an ongoing U.S. military presence in the region.
    Certain provisions of the cease-fire agreement, severe economic sanctions and ongoing military operations, have limited Iraqi sovereignty and have created a severe humanitarian crisis.

    Ten years after the Gulf War, U.S. policy toward Iraq continues to suffer from an overreliance on military solutions, an abuse of the United Nations and international law, and a disregard for the human suffering resulting from sanctions. Furthermore, Washington’s actions have failed to dislodge Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein from power.

    The U.S. quietly supported Saddam Hussein during the 1980s through direct economic aid, indirect military aid, and the transfer of technologies with military applications. Washington rejected calls for sanctions when Iraq invaded Iran in 1980 and when it used chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and Kurdish civilians. The U.S. Navy intervened in the Persian Gulf against Iran in 1987, further bolstering the Iraqi war effort. The Reagan and Bush administrations dismissed concerns about human rights abuses by Saddam’s totalitarian regime.

    Following a dispute with the government of Kuwait regarding debt repayment and oil policy during the summer of 1990, Iraq invaded the sheikdom in early August, soon annexing the country as its nineteenth province. The UN Security Council condemned the takeover and demanded Iraq’s immediate withdrawal. Iraqi failure to comply led to comprehensive military and economic sanctions. Arab mediation efforts were short-circuited when the U.S. announced it was sending troops to Saudi Arabia to protect the kingdom via Operation Desert Shield, supported by forces from a couple of dozen other UN members. It soon became apparent that the U.S. was preparing for an offensive military action to dislodge Iraqi occupation forces, rejecting any negotiated settlement.

    The Bush administration eventually won approval by the U.S. Congress and the UN Security Council to authorize the use of force; in the latter case, extraordinary pressure, including bribes and threats against other members were necessary to eke out a majority. The United States, with support from some allied governments, commenced a heavy bombing campaign in January 1991, inflicting severe damage on not only Iraqi military forces but much of the country’s civilian infrastructure as well. The war, known as Operation Desert Storm, ended six weeks later, after a ground offensive in March liberated Kuwait from Iraqi control with minimal allied casualties but over 100,000 Iraqi deaths.

    Problems with Current U.S. Policy

    Key Problems

    U.S.-led sanctions have resulted in massive human suffering among the civilian population.
    The U.S. bombing campaign and the enforcement of no-fly zones are implemented without authorization from the United Nations.
    U.S. policy does not contribute to the security of the region nor weaken Hussein’s grip on power.

    Iraq still has not recovered from the 1991 war, during which it was on the receiving end of the heaviest bombing in world history. The U.S. has insisted on maintaining strict sanctions against Iraq to force compliance with demands to dismantle any capability of producing weapons of mass destruction and to address other outstanding issues from the cease-fire agreement. It is largely U.S. opposition that has prevented the UN from lifting the sanctions.

    The sanctions have brought great hardships on the Iraqi people, as food prices are now 12,000 times what they were in 1990. It is Iraq’s poor, particularly the children, who have suffered the most. Estimates of the total number of Iraqi deaths from malnutrition and preventable diseases as a result of the sanctions have ranged from a quarter million to over one million, the majority being children. UNICEF estimates that at least 4,500 Iraqi children are dying every month as a result of the sanctions. Indeed, perhaps there has been no other occasion during peacetime when so many people have been condemned to starvation and death from preventable diseases due to political decisions made overseas. The unseen impact of these sanctions on the social fabric of Iraq is perhaps even more severe.

    The U.S. claims that such sanctions will lead to the downfall of Saddam Hussein’s regime. However, Washington’s policy against Iraq has had the ironic effect of strengthening Saddam’s rule. Since the Iraqi people are now more dependent than ever on the government for their survival, they are even less likely to risk open defiance. U.S. policies simply have not harmed Iraq’s ruling elites or weakened its repressive internal apparatus. Unlike the reaction to sanctions imposed prior to the war, Iraqi popular resentment lays the blame for the protracted suffering squarely on the United States, not on the totalitarian regime, whose ill-fated conquest of Kuwait prompted the events that led to the economic collapse of this once-prosperous country. In addition, Iraq’s middle class, which would have most likely formed the political force capable of overthrowing Saddam’s regime, has been reduced to penury; many have emigrated. It is not surprising that virtually all of Iraq’s opposition movements oppose the U.S. policy of ongoing punitive sanctions and refuse to endorse the air strikes. Even after Saddam leaves, U.S. policies are creating a whole generation of Iraqis who will be stridently anti-American. Meanwhile, more and more countries are violating aspects of the sanctions regime, further undermining U.S. credibility.

    U.S. officials have stated that sanctions would remain even if Iraq complied with United Nations inspectors, indicating a lack of genuine U.S. support for UN resolutions and giving the Iraqi regime virtually no incentive to comply. Moreover, the failure of both the United States and the United Nations to explicitly spell out what was needed in order for sanctions to be lifted contributed to Iraq’s decision to suspend its cooperation with UN inspectors in December 1998.

    Although Iraq’s nuclear and chemical weapons capability has been successfully dismantled, there are still concerns about Iraq’s biological weapons potential, though the U.S. has failed to make a credible case as to how Iraq could successfully deliver such weapons or what might motivate the regime to use them. And there is little evidence to suggest that U.S. air strikes have eliminated or reduced the country’s biological weapons capability, which would be based upon small-scale operations that are difficult to find and eliminate through such military action.

    The use of U.S. air strikes against Iraq subsequent to the weapons inspectors’ departure has garnered very little support from the international community, including Iraq’s neighbors, who would presumably be most threatened by an Iraqi biological weapons capability. The U.S. has been unable to make a credible case to clarify whom its policies are defending. The United States itself is certainly safe from Iraqi attacks, and most of Iraq’s neighbors have strong armed forces of their own that are more than adequate to deter Iraq’s severely crippled military.

    In light of Washington’s tolerance—and even quiet support—of Iraq’s powerful military machine in the 1980s, the exaggerated claims in recent years of an imminent Iraqi military threat, after Iraq’s military infrastructure was largely destroyed in the Gulf War, simply lack credibility. Indeed, the U.S. provided the seed stock for the very biological weapons that Washington claims the Iraqis may be developing. Though experts disagree about Iraq’s ongoing potential for aggression, few actually believe current U.S. policy is making the region safer.

    Only the UN Security Council has the prerogative to authorize military responses to violations of its resolutions; no single member state can do so unilaterally without explicit authorization. Were that the case, for example, Russia could bomb Israel for that government’s ongoing violations of UN Security Council resolutions. The U.S. bombing campaigns, therefore, are illegal. In addition, the no-fly zones and other restrictions against Iraq’s military activity within its borders were unilaterally imposed by the United States and Great Britain and are not based on any credible legal covenant.

  3. #35
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    I hear what you're saying. Illuminati and such. Most of what we see day to day is just a side circus to keep us all unaware. There are more people learning about these hidden power figures. My uncle years ago would read about the Illuminati, and other power cartels. I never did get to read any yet. I have a friend who gave me a cd and it is one of a whole course that talks about this very thing. How there is no "federal reserve". I am going to buy the course on cd's, it's only like $40.

    I would love to jump into politics but, there is so much BS and one has to wonder if a person got really far up there, if they would get assassinated for wanting to truly work for the country and its people instead of working for big business. I see Bush and Kerry as typical puppets that have been bought by big business and nothing more. They have sold their souls in my eyes.

  4. #36
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Well lady mod, looks like you just posted another of those uneducated responses. Does that make you a psuedo crony of mine? :D

  5. #37
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    Well lady mod, looks like you just posted another of those uneducated responses. Does that make you a psuedo crony of mine? :D
    ROFL- Either that or a PITA to the neocons on the forum. I was just doing what Raider suggested and investigating the No Fly Zone violatons info. I couldn't find where anything said that the violations gave Bush carteblanche to invade Iraq, but I did post what I could find.

    Grim is having all kinds of problems with connecting the dots with an early article and a later one, lol.

    LM
    Last edited by sojustask; 12-12-2005 at 12:15 AM.

  6. #38
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Grim is having all kinds of problems with connecting the dots with an early article and a later one, lol.

    LM
    No Lady Mod, you and the liberal media are having a tough time creating credible dots to be connected.

    You never answered my questions concerning my last response to you:

    Exactly where is it written in this article that these interrogations and every word about this guy was fed to the white house?

    When will you finally read the Senate Intelligence Committee's report or the Silverman Commission's findings?

    How come you always seem to forget the conclusions of all those investigations and the way those conclusions were reached?

    Please explain why NOBODY from the democratic party uses these excerpts (from the year and a half old article in your post) to support their "Bush lied" bull.

    I answer your questions with reasonable, supported conclusions and facts. Can you do the same?

    .

  7. #39
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawb
    I hear what you're saying. Illuminati and such. Most of what we see day to day is just a side circus to keep us all unaware. There are more people learning about these hidden power figures. My uncle years ago would read about the Illuminati, and other power cartels. I never did get to read any yet. I have a friend who gave me a cd and it is one of a whole course that talks about this very thing. How there is no "federal reserve". I am going to buy the course on cd's, it's only like $40.

    I would love to jump into politics but, there is so much BS and one has to wonder if a person got really far up there, if they would get assassinated for wanting to truly work for the country and its people instead of working for big business. I see Bush and Kerry as typical puppets that have been bought by big business and nothing more. They have sold their souls in my eyes.
    First sentence, second paragraph; you're correct. If one could not be
    neutralized they might very well get a Dallas parade.
    I think we have some younger generation folks that are up and coming
    that ARE NOT going to be so easily compartmentalized, or dumbed down
    by the "good 'ol boy" games.
    But then, what is the term for the unconscious suggestion media that
    can be flashed on a movie or T.V. screen so quick that one is not
    consciously aware of it, but yet be influenced by the suggestions?
    It has been experimented with already, supposedly from a commercial
    advertisement media use, so it has been said... It was supposedly banned
    because of it's subversive nature. DFo you suppose?
    What's being programmed into their X-box and so on video games?
    Would make go material for a Film, you think? Hmmmm.
    you may find it interesting to look into the Federal Reserve, that is, as far
    as one would be allowed, based on information AVAILABLE to the public,
    at large. Read: as in we the people, supposedly the true government
    according to the opening preamble lines of the Constitution.
    The Federal Reserve is basically comprised of a COMMITTE of 12 men,
    I believe that it is stated from "various" banks.
    The Federal Government contracts this PRIVATE organization to manage
    our nation's economy and monetary system.
    The principal interface with the public is a man designtaed as "Chairman."
    In recent years: Allen Greenspan. Most of the time when this man makes
    himself publicly known he does not bear good tidings. Mainly that he is
    raising the "prime rate." THat is supposedly the legal interest rate that
    banks and other lending agents (read Crecit Card Companies) can levy
    against the acounts of their customers. Additional percentage rates
    may be added on to this.
    It has always been amazing to me that this man comes out and announces
    further increases in the prime rate; call it "points."; when the economy seems
    to be improving. He refers to this as "inflation." Interesting, the public
    is penalized both ways: recession: wages down, labor, employment
    cuts, layoff. Economy improves: raise the percentage rate on "borrowed:
    money: read financing. It seems like the problem with this :inflation"
    situation though is that the majority of increase in business is based
    on credit spending. We americans are so of the greatest debtors in
    the world; that is what capatilism and materialism does for each individual.
    Who benefits? The wealthy, as always. Think they care, have compassion
    the general public? You know the answer!
    So who benefits from increases in the Prime Rate? Obviously the banks and
    other financial organizations. And who does Greenspan repersent? Goes
    full circle doesn't it.
    I for one would personally like very much to see an accurate and detailed
    list of contributors to the campaigns of ALL presidential nominees, V.P.
    and entire cabinet, Senators and Congressional repersentatives as
    well.
    Next, I would like to see the figures of these individuals and corporations
    regarding their investments, military and Federal contracts being
    awarded. That would get us past the speculation, which is where we are
    left under the present "arrangement." Then we could see factually who
    are the players in the "game."

  8. #40
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    ALan G just recently did it again!; 12/13/2005. You don't
    suppose that the prime has been raised, again, to glean some of the
    additional credit card and other financial spending around the Christmas
    and holiday season.
    Suppose Mr. A. Greenspan is celebrating and enjoying a sumptous Hanakuah
    feast?
    By the way, did you also notice gasoline prices are ALSO creeping BACK UP,
    just in time for the holiday season travel to Mom's house and other
    destinations.
    So sweet of them isn't it?
    Well, G.W. amongst others will be enjoying his bounty down on the ranch.
    Mr. Greenspan and G.W. say Merry Christmas!
    Last edited by coontie; 12-15-2005 at 04:59 AM. Reason: word

  9. #41
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Amazing how it works with the numbers how just a puny little increase on things such as gas and interest rates can create a generous increase for the people in power. AND whenever they feel like it. Too bad we couldn't do that with our side of the coin. Oh, I feel like an extra 100 million today. Keep it there for a month or so and when things look like their gonna cave in, I'll put it back down. Give'em time to recuperate, then find a way to make some more.

  10. #42
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawb
    Amazing how it works with the numbers how just a puny little increase on things such as gas and interest rates can create a generous increase for the people in power. AND whenever they feel like it. Too bad we couldn't do that with our side of the coin. Oh, I feel like an extra 100 million today. Keep it there for a month or so and when things look like their gonna cave in, I'll put it back down. Give'em time to recuperate, then find a way to make some more.
    friend... the "other side of the coin" is: we get to pay a multitude of
    taxes and the going interest rates.
    Ever wonder what happened to the Usury Laws? Business and COrporation
    lobbyists working with our Senators and Congress took care of that.
    "So Just Ask": if you see this, where can we place a new category of
    a subject here: Credit Cards; Financing; Mortgage Loans on Owned Homes.
    All seperate categories? Would be nice.
    There is a lot of Scams going on in these areas. Only thing is, their being
    conducted by "legitimate businesses."
    Anyhow. maybe this is a good place to put people on notice to what
    these "financial institutes" are doing.

    ~ Namaste ~

  11. #43
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    testing 123

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