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  1. #1
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    Chip on my shoulder?

    What has created the chip on my shoulder boils down to what the democrats in this country have become, or more accurately, what their priorities have become.

    We had gone a long time in this country without having our troops being engaged in a war, until now. When the president declared a "War on terrorism" back on Sept 18th of 2001, that meant more than just a military action being performed by our troops. It meant that this country, the entire country including its politicians, citizens and yes, even the media were now involved in this war.

    The soldiers part in this is obvious, but the roles of the other people of this country seem to have been lost to the members of the democratic party, their supporters, as well as the liberal dominated main stream media. Take a look at WWII if you need to be reminded how this country as a whole wins wars and makes America the strongest, most free and prosperous nation on the planet. It is done by making concessions while we are engaged in the conflict. That can take place in many different forms for many different people. Here is where the members of the democratic party have "lost it" so to speak.

    You do NOT during times of war, level false or unproven allegations against the commander in chief of our military under any circumstances, especially when it concerns the reasoning we went to war in the first place. That deteriorates the moral of our troops and can serve only to empower our enemies and encourage more anti American hatred being spread. When the democrats put their political agenda ahead of the country as a whole and the lives of our soldiers on the ground fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, they betrayed this country. Now, before you jump on the "dissent is an essential part of being an American", or "we have a right to question our government" line of defense, lets review recent events.

    The democrats had called for investigation after investigation into the wmd claims made by the administration concerning Iraq, which I have no problem with at all. Now at first, they did "Question" if the president had possibly embellished on the known intelligence, or maybe thrown a few of his own personal beliefs into the case he made to invade Iraq. That was legitimate and very much appropriate action considering the circumstances. Well, it didn't take any time at all before the questioning turned into out right accusations that the president had lied to the American people, and this was months before any of the ongoing investigations had concluded.

    THAT MY FRIENDS IS PUTTING ONES POLITICAL AGENDA BEFORE THE WELL BEING OF THIS COUNTRY!

    It was not only wrong, but it was only the tip of the democratic iceberg.

    When all these BI-PARTISAN (members of both political party's involved) investigations had concluded that the president and his administration:

    1) Had NOT lied about the intelligence,
    2) Had NOT manipulated the intelligence
    3) Had NOT manufactured any of the intelligence
    4) Had NOT put pressure on analysts to reach a certain conclusion.
    5) Had correctly portrayed the beliefs of our intelligence community as well as what most intelligence agencies world wide had determined.

    This was met with by the main stream media with an almost deafening silence. They instead focused on the fact that what the president said wasn't true, but failed to relay the message that the intelligence gathering was 100% to blame for this and not the administration. This was not only tolerated by the members of the democratic party, but was used to continue to claim that "Bush lied", when in fact them claiming this, was the lie... and they damn well know it too!

    Democratic Senators Rockefeller, Feinstein, Durbin, Wyden, Edwards (thats right, Kerry's running mate) and a host of others were part of these investigative teams and agreed unanimously with these conclusions. Yet these democrats are willing participants today in the "Bush lied" movement. How could the democrats ignore the conclusions of the very investigations they insisted had to be conducted and proclaim to the world (especially to our enemies), that our president willingly sent soldiers to wage war and remove a foreign government, knowing they posed no threat to anyone? How could they not consider the way our enemies would use this to motivate their people, as well as recruit more terrorists to try and kill our soldiers?

    The democrats, their liberal followers, the anti-war crowd, the anti-Bush people and the main stream media went from questioning, to accusing, then to ignoring the results of multiple inquiries, to flat out lying about the actions of our government.

    WE ARE AT WAR AND THAT SHOULD BE THE FIRST PRIORITY FOR ALL POLITICIANS, NOT THEIR POLITICAL AGENDA!

    The same pattern of "accusations before questioning" and "conviction before trial" has been used by the democrats over the last several years on at least a dozen different issues (Abu grabe, Gitmo and Downing Street are just a few that come to mind). This was executed by the democrats without any regard what so ever for what effect this would have on our soldiers, the war on terrorism, or the United States as a whole. Three words sum up how I view this partisan behavior:

    SELFISH
    IRRESPONSIBLE
    REPREHENSIBLE


    You can't play "politics as usual" when our country is engaged in a conflict of this magnitude and I'm not alone in this belief. Millions of Americans also feel this way including the overwhelming majority of the soldiers fighting this war. The democrats in Washington need to put a stop to this behavior now, and until they do, the chip on my shoulder is NOT likely to go away.


    .

  2. #2
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Don't compare this to WW2. There has never been a Declaration of War against Iraq.

  3. #3
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    AMEN Bairdi. Furthermore, Grim is entitled to his opinions BUT so is everyone else on the forum whether they agree with him or not is irrelevant.

    Iraq is more like Viet Nam than WW2. I always have to wonder why they keep comparing it to WW2. Iraq didn't attack us.

    Lady Mod

  4. #4
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    AMEN Bairdi. Furthermore, Grim is entitled to his opinions BUT so is everyone else on the forum whether they agree with him or not is irrelevant.

    Iraq is more like Viet Nam than WW2. I always have to wonder why they keep comparing it to WW2. Iraq didn't attack us.

    Lady Mod
    Agreed Lady Mod. And we dealt with the same mind set back then too. "My country right or wrong." "America love it or leave it." "I am not a crook."

  5. #5
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17
    What has created the chip on my shoulder boils down to what the democrats in this country have become, or more accurately, what their priorities have become.


    The soldiers part in this is obvious, but the roles of the other people of this country seem to have been lost to the members of the democratic party, their supporters, as well as the liberal dominated main stream media. Take a look at WWII if you need to be reminded how this country as a whole wins wars and makes America the strongest, most free and prosperous nation on the planet. It is done by making concessions while we are engaged in the conflict. That can take place in many different forms for many different people. Here is where the members of the democratic party have "lost it" so to speak.


    .

    Clearly, the chronically clueless, habitual drivel posted by this guy does prove one thing. A chip is the only thing between his shoulders.The Second World War has no relevance or congruence to this whatsoever, except to note that The Bush Crime Gang is conducting our foreign affairs in a fashion similar to that of the Third Reich.
    Last edited by dchristie; 12-10-2005 at 05:11 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    AMEN Bairdi. Furthermore, Grim is entitled to his opinions BUT so is everyone else on the forum whether they agree with him or not is irrelevant.

    Iraq is more like Viet Nam than WW2. I always have to wonder why they keep comparing it to WW2. Iraq didn't attack us.

    Lady Mod
    Ahhhh--um!

    Germany didn't attack us either!

  7. #7
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    Ahhhh--um!

    Germany didn't attack us either!
    Germany issued a formal Declaration of War against the United States.

  8. #8
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    Ahhhh--um!

    Germany didn't attack us either!
    The Japanese attacked the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, then the US bases in the Philippines. The US declared war on Japan, then a few days later Hitler declared war on the US, followed by a US declaration of war against Germany, and thus US was fully involved in the war.

    Brush up on your history Raider.

    Lady Mod

  9. #9
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    OH, And just for the record; Iraq didn't declare war on the United States either.

    Lady Mod

  10. #10
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    OH, And just for the record; Iraq didn't declare war on the United States either.

    Lady Mod
    Correct. Germany declared war on the US as a condition of their Tri-Partate Agreement with Japan and Italy. In fact, Iraq was doing everything it could to avoid a war. The only similarities existing between these two conflicts is the Bush Crime Gang's invasion of Iraq on false pretexts being reminiscent of Hitler's invasion of Poland, also on false pretenses. And we could also reasonably apply Hitler's inveterate refusal to take the advise of his career military officers as another similarity to Bush's insane incompetence.
    Last edited by dchristie; 12-10-2005 at 05:24 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Hi Grim,

    Why are you yelling at us?

    Send this to the major newspapers, news network, cable news networks, and every Democratic elected official. Since you believe this tell them, they are the ones that need to hear it. The people on this board have no *direct* ability to change domestic or foreign policy. The Democrats in Washington, DC have that power (with the say so, and agreement of the American people), as well as the Republicans.

    Don't you think the groups I have named, should be reading this?

    DeeDee1965

  12. #12
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    DeeDee, I wasn't yelling at you. I just thought I would explain where I'm coming from, thats all.

    As for those that thought I was comparing the military actions of WWII and the War on terrorism, let me clarify that. I was speaking about comparing how our elected officials, news media and citizens in general conducted themselves in public here at home during WWII vs. today.

    Sorry I didn't make myself clear enough.

    .

  13. #13
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    The Japanese attacked the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, then the US bases in the Philippines. The US declared war on Japan, then a few days later Hitler declared war on the US, followed by a US declaration of war against Germany, and thus US was fully involved in the war.

    Brush up on your history Raider.

    Lady Mod
    CORRECT: additionally, Japan and Italy signed an agression pact against
    other European nations, the United States and any other countries that
    were not loyal or sympathtic with these three nations.
    Additionally, there was a faction of French nationals that consorted with
    the Nazis to align theirself as enemies and foes of the other nations.
    THey were termed Vichy. THey opposed our troops when they landed on
    French soil to prosecute the war against Nazi Germany.
    Additionally, many Moslem countries, at least their governments were
    aligned with the Nazis. THey thought this was a solution to Islams
    problem with the Jews. They liked the idea of what Nazi Germany was doing
    to the Jews and thought this was a convienent way of ridding theirself of
    them. Consequently, they allied with the Nazis as well.

  14. #14
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    There has never been a Declaration of War against Iraq.
    Even so, that doesn't change in any way the fact that this IS a war. A formal declaration has no bearing on what we are involved in over in Iraq. Besides, both the congress and the senate voted overwhelmingly to approve the presidents use of force against Saddam. So declaration or not, this is a war, no matter how you choose to label it.

  15. #15
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17
    Even so, that doesn't change in any way the fact that this IS a war. A formal declaration has no bearing on what we are involved in over in Iraq. Besides, both the congress and the senate voted overwhelmingly to approve the presidents use of force against Saddam. So declaration or not, this is a war, no matter how you choose to label it.
    Wrong Grim. A formal declaration has a bearing on everything. I could care less if you have a chip on your shoulder because people do not line up in lockstep with you because George Bush decided to declare a war on terror to justify this. We were led into a preemptive strike against a country that did not attack us based on false information and reasoning. This action did not have to happen. On September 12th, this country was united and was of one purpose.

  16. #16
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    Re: Chip on my shoulder?

    You see, Grim understands 'debate' to be a process where each party states facts that relate to their conclusions, followed by a declaration of position. He will painstakingly identify and attribute his sources and make his case methodically. This approach, while it is the traditional form of debate, is simply too straightforward for his opponents on this board. That is not the way liberals like to communicate, so he is a target of relentless personal attacks for, apparently, being organized in his approach. What else could it be? After all, we are all entitled to our opinions, right? Oh, wait....

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