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  1. #1
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    democrats are fun to watch

    Ah...democrats..

    Come out with wild-eyed support for Murthas proposal for immediate recall of troops from Iraq...

    Later the same day, voted against it almost unanimously...

    Pelosi first said she supported murthas plan, then made everyone vote against it, then today says that they should pull out.

    Even hillary does not know which way her lies should go...she is all over the place!

    You see, as predicted, as soon as the BIG lie starts to falter, they are back where they started...the party of defeat and appeasement. They must find some way of appearing to be something that they are not. What a way to live.

    Anyway, they are finished.


    Maybe some more fake indictments will get them through the holidays, but their dream of taking back the country by relying on the staying power of their vicious lies, is over.

  2. #2
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Wait, when did he call for "immediate withdrawal"?

    I remember seeing that speech on tv and I don't remember him calling for an immediate withdrawal.

    And the whole "immediate withdrawal" thing being voted against wasn't Murtha's proposal. Because that's not what he proposed at all.

    That's actually some craptastic motion that the Republicans made because they knew no one in their right mind would vote for an immediate withdrawal. Not even the "crazy" libs.

    Now, if it were for a phased withdrawal over time the results might've turned out differently.

  3. #3
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Oh wait, that's right... Murtha is just a "coward" right? Even though he enlisted to go to Vietnam even though he was married with 3 kids.

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/...tha/index.html

  4. #4
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Ah...democrats..

    Come out with wild-eyed support for Murthas proposal for immediate recall of troops from Iraq...

    Later the same day, voted against it almost unanimously...

    Pelosi first said she supported murthas plan, then made everyone vote against it, then today says that they should pull out.

    Even hillary does not know which way her lies should go...she is all over the place!

    You see, as predicted, as soon as the BIG lie starts to falter, they are back where they started...the party of defeat and appeasement. They must find some way of appearing to be something that they are not. What a way to live.

    Anyway, they are finished.


    Maybe some more fake indictments will get them through the holidays, but their dream of taking back the country by relying on the staying power of their vicious lies, is over.
    Better go check your sources again or change them Pwrone. This is what he said:

    http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press...51117iraq.html

    It would be nice if the right would quote words accurately before they bash the people they are quoting.

    Beginning immediate discussions for redeployment and immediate redeploying are similar BUT not the same.

    Lady Mod

  5. #5
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by idshadow
    Wait, when did he call for "immediate withdrawal"?

    I remember seeing that speech on tv and I don't remember him calling for an immediate withdrawal.

    And the whole "immediate withdrawal" thing being voted against wasn't Murtha's proposal. Because that's not what he proposed at all.

    That's actually some craptastic motion that the Republicans made because they knew no one in their right mind would vote for an immediate withdrawal. Not even the "crazy" libs.

    Now, if it were for a phased withdrawal over time the results might've turned out differently.
    It was the Republicans proposal that was voted down. Murtha's wasn't even voted on yet. But you know, the right wingers on this board aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

    Lady Mod

  6. #6
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Pwrone is right about one thing. If the Democratic party doesn't get it together and stand for something concrete and appealing to the majority they aren't going to do well against the Republican smear machine.

    After all, smearing their opponents has been very sucessful in recent years and the Red party is very good at it. I don't advocate it, but when in Rome....

    That's why I find it so funny to hear conservatives cry about the 'witch hunts' the liberals and Democrats are on. They invented them with Clinton for crying out loud.

    I wish we could just abolish the party system and start over sometimes. Take all the money and special interests out of government and get back to basics... but alas.

    I hope the younger generation doesn't stay asleep to politics for much longer. We need fresh input and meat!

  7. #7
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Better go check your sources again or change them Pwrone. This is what he said:

    http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press...51117iraq.html

    It would be nice if the right would quote words accurately before they bash the people they are quoting.

    Beginning immediate discussions for redeployment and immediate redeploying are similar BUT not the same.

    Lady Mod
    Murtha is a defeatist and his plan is flat out foolish. He wants to go back to the days of containment. Containment? How does he propose that we contain terrorism? He has stolen a page directly from Cindy Sheehan. He thinks that we are losing and are eventually going to be embarrassed. He couldn't be farther from the truth. I strongly suggest that good democrats take lead from Joe Liberman and leave Murtha in the fringes with mickey moore and cindy cheathan. It's people like Murtha that are aiding and abetting the enemy and lowering our troop morale. Ignore Murtha good democrats of earth and his losing message will go away with him. :cool:

  8. #8
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Better go check your sources again or change them Pwrone. This is what he said:

    http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press...51117iraq.html

    It would be nice if the right would quote words accurately before they bash the people they are quoting.

    Beginning immediate discussions for redeployment and immediate redeploying are similar BUT not the same.

    Lady Mod
    Lady Mod,

    I hate to correct you here but this is cut and pasted directly from your source link.

    I believe we must begin discussions for an immediate re-deployment of U.S. forces from Iraq.

    You are correct in your statement above, however he did in fact call for discussion for immediate re-deployment of the troops. It is the second sentence in the article on his own website. How can you argue he did not say he wanted discussions concerning immediate re-deployment when it comes from his site?

    The Republicans granted his wish and immediately began discussions ont he immediate re-deployment of the troops. They debated it and called for a vote. He himself voted against it.

    This is the first time I have read his own words from his own website. I had bought into the spin from the Democrats that what he said was not what he really said and falsely believed he had called for immediate discussions concerning the re-deployment of the troops. But he didn't he called for discussion for the Immediate re-deployment. The republicans where in fact correct, based on the information provided by the Murtha Web Site.

  9. #9
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    Lady Mod,

    I hate to correct you here but this is cut and pasted directly from your source link.

    I believe we must begin discussions for an immediate re-deployment of U.S. forces from Iraq.

    You are correct in your statement above, however he did in fact call for discussion for immediate re-deployment of the troops. It is the second sentence in the article on his own website. How can you argue he did not say he wanted discussions concerning immediate re-deployment when it comes from his site?

    The Republicans granted his wish and immediately began discussions on the immediate re-deployment of the troops. They debated it and called for a vote. He himself voted against it.

    This is the first time I have read his own words from his own website. I had bought into the spin from the Democrats that what he said was not what he really said and falsely believed he had called for immediate discussions concerning the re-deployment of the troops. But he didn't he called for discussion for the Immediate re-deployment. The republicans where in fact correct, based on the information provided by the Murtha Web Site.
    Oh, I think you enjoy correcting me, lol. That's OK, at least you do it with class.

    Discussions in Washington take a long time Reg. The only thing I've ever seen Washington do quickly was give themselves raises.

    Did you read the proposal at the link on the page?


    To Redeploy U.S. Forces from Iraq.

    IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

    MR. MURTHA introduced the following joint resolution:




    (H. J. Res._________ )-

    To Redeploy U.S. Forces from Iraq.

    IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

    MR. MURTHA introduced the following joint resolution, which was referred to the Committee on ____________________________

    Whereas Congress and the American People have not been shown clear, measurable progress toward establishment of stable and improving security in Iraq or of a stable and improving economy in Iraq, both of which are essential to "promote the emergence of a democratic government";

    Whereas additional stabilization in Iraq by U.S. military forces cannot be achieved without the deployment of hundreds of thousands of additional U.S. troops, which in turn cannot be achieved without a military draft;

    Whereas more than $277 billion has been appropriated by the United States Congress to prosecute U.S. military action in Iraq and Afghanistan;

    Whereas, as of the drafting of this resolution, 2,079 U.S. troops have been killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom;

    Whereas U.S. forces have become the target of the insurgency;

    Whereas, according to recent polls, over 80% of the Iraqi people want the U.S. forces out of Iraq;

    Whereas polls also indicate that 45% of the Iraqi people feel that the attacks on U.S. forces are justified;

    Whereas, due to the foregoing, Congress finds it evident that continuing U.S. military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the people of Iraq, or the Persian Gulf Region, which were cited in Public Law 107-243 as justification for undertaking such action;

    Therefore be it

    1) Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in
    2) Congress assembled,
    3) That:
    4) Section 1. The deployment of United States forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is
    5) hereby terminated and the forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable
    6) date.

    7) Section 2. A quick-reaction U.S. force and an over-the-horizon presence of U.S. Marines
    8) shall be deployed in the region.
    9) Section 3. The United States of America shall pursue security and stability in Iraq
    10) through diplomacy.


    _______________________________
    JOHN P. MURTHA
    Member of Congress



    (####)

    Note #5 and #6. He wasn't calling for immediate deployment as in meaning right this instant BUT at the "earliest practicable date." Which he determined was about 6 months. So in other words, the proposal states to redeploy the troops when it is feasible and possible, it was not written to be done right away despite feasibility as the Republican proposal suggested.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051119/pl_nm/iraq_usa_dc
    "Unlike Murtha's proposal calling for troops to be withdrawn "as soon as practicable," which he expected would be about six months, the Republican resolution said deployment of the U.S. forces should be "terminated immediately.""

    The Republicans did not "grant his wish". The Republicans were making the usual asses out of themselves. :) Are we really surprised by that?

    I'm not.

    Lady Mod

  10. #10
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Lady Mod......I am not working hard correcting you ;) you gave me the link.

    I did in fact read the proposal and I focused immediately on points #5 and #6. All those points do is make it look good for a Democratic Congressman while not changing the previously stated goal of the Bush Administration.

    Had he included in the proposal when this date would be obvious it may have had some teeth. The proposal did not lay out any bench marks to indicate when it would be safe to withdraw troops.

    I also noted his comment section where he states:

    Whereas additional stabilization in Iraq by U.S. military forces cannot be achieved without the deployment of hundreds of thousands of additional U.S. troops, which in turn cannot be achieved without a military draft;

    He claims that it would take hundred's of thousands of additional troops to achieve additional stabilization. Without some sort of data to back this claim up it is simply conjecture on his part. His numbers appear to be inflated so he can make the claim we would need to have a draft to achieve the goal. Nice use of a scare tactic.

    Whereas more than $277 billion has been appropriated by the United States Congress to prosecute U.S. military action in Iraq and Afghanistan;

    Since the proposal is simply to redeploy troops now in Iraq, how much of this money is being spent in Iraq will continue to need to be spent as we re-deploy? Why does he use Afganistan at all since we are not talking about Afganistan? It seems like he has put a price tag on Iraq and in his opinion it has gotten to expensive and so victory or defeat does not matter any longer.

    The bottom line is this proposal is a proposal, not a plan. With no bench mark triggers to pull the troops out, the only thing this proposal accomplishes is a little bit of political capitol for his party should it every get taken to a vote and passed. It is the same thing we have now, a proposal to withdraw troops but no plan as to how the timeline will be determined.

  11. #11
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    The Republicans did not "grant his wish". The Republicans were making the usual asses out of themselves. :) Are we really surprised by that?

    I'm not.

    Lady Mod
    They did what he wanted, they had a discussion about the withdraw of troops from Iraq. They may not have had the discussion in the manner he would have preferred. Points where made in the debates from both sides if you happened to watch it. His team had lots of comments from civilians and troops alike that wanted to pull out now and the other side had the same from those that wanted to stay the course.

    The debate was split right down party lines until the vote was called. Then even Murtha voted against Immediate re-deployment which is what he was asking for in his proposal.

    And my personal take on the whole thing is that both sides looked like the rear end of a burro!

  12. #12
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    Murtha is a defeatist and his plan is flat out foolish. He wants to go back to the days of containment. Containment? How does he propose that we contain terrorism? He has stolen a page directly from Cindy Sheehan. He thinks that we are losing and are eventually going to be embarrassed. He couldn't be farther from the truth. I strongly suggest that good democrats take lead from Joe Liberman and leave Murtha in the fringes with mickey moore and cindy cheathan. It's people like Murtha that are aiding and abetting the enemy and lowering our troop morale. Ignore Murtha good democrats of earth and his losing message will go away with him. :cool:
    good democrats of earth!?of course they are for the earth!!that's why the repugs have killed the environment to make up for tax cuts!!troop morale!?hey!! just like porn,they can turn of the tv!!or are you confessin the majority of enlistee's are forced to join for POOR economic reasons that arn't ready to die fer pork chop hill!?they just need the money!?call it bait and switch!?it's so american these days!!lieberman is a "whiny" jew!!get a clue!!and get outa the payola line!!wimpy!!OOPS!!did i break the new rules!?
    :eek: :p :rolleyes:

  13. #13
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Ah...democrats..

    Come out with wild-eyed support for Murthas proposal for immediate recall of troops from Iraq...

    Later the same day, voted against it almost unanimously...

    Pelosi first said she supported murthas plan, then made everyone vote against it, then today says that they should pull out.

    Even hillary does not know which way her lies should go...she is all over the place!

    You see, as predicted, as soon as the BIG lie starts to falter, they are back where they started...the party of defeat and appeasement. They must find some way of appearing to be something that they are not. What a way to live.

    Anyway, they are finished.


    Maybe some more fake indictments will get them through the holidays, but their dream of taking back the country by relying on the staying power of their vicious lies, is over.

    fun to watch!?finished!?like the christians in the colluseum in rome!?i hate to watch them sometimes!i have to agree with you on the fact that the dems are in some cases just makin busy so as to appear to be useful.(they really are used to bein laid back)it's a mistake.or at least a bad form of overconcern that is unnecessary and self defeating.but you have to admit,they are not used to being in the "position" they find themselves.are they in danger of making complete fools of themselves!?and why!?because they have no experience bein treated like dirt.there outlook was all taken for granted over time.it is the american story of the laziness of tradition.nepotism if you will.so do you have a real point to make besides gloating over human nature!?anything constructive to say!?or are you still a dchristie reactionary!!and cant resist!?hehe!! :eek: :p :rolleyes:

  14. #14
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by RegulationE
    Lady Mod......I am not working hard correcting you ;) you gave me the link.

    I did in fact read the proposal and I focused immediately on points #5 and #6. All those points do is make it look good for a Democratic Congressman while not changing the previously stated goal of the Bush Administration.

    Had he included in the proposal when this date would be obvious it may have had some teeth. The proposal did not lay out any bench marks to indicate when it would be safe to withdraw troops.
    Reg, those were left open. If you go back to his speech, he is asking for discusson of bench marks to indicate when it would be safe to withdraw the troops from the President or in the event the president continues to waffle, that congress would make that determination. That's why some things in the proposal are left open That discussion has NOT taken place yet and THAT is what he was calling for in the first place.

    When the Republicans had their discussion and hurriedly drew up their proposal that was voted down, they basically said let's start immediately, they totally ignored the point in his plea of discussing bench marks to determine the safest time. They did not grant his wish.

    I also noted his comment section where he states:

    Whereas additional stabilization in Iraq by U.S. military forces cannot be achieved without the deployment of hundreds of thousands of additional U.S. troops, which in turn cannot be achieved without a military draft;

    He claims that it would take hundred's of thousands of additional troops to achieve additional stabilization. Without some sort of data to back this claim up it is simply conjecture on his part. His numbers appear to be inflated so he can make the claim we would need to have a draft to achieve the goal. Nice use of a scare tactic.
    There is all kinds of data. Go back to his speech. Military troops being deployed 3 and 4 times is more than in any other war I believe. Numbers are down in volunteers being recruited to play target practice in Iraq. The insurgency is growing, NOT shrinking. And his numbers are based on his experience and those of generals he has spoken with (go read his other messages on his website) IF we continue on the coarse already laid out. We'll run out of volunteers Before we run out of war in Iraq.

    Whereas more than $277 billion has been appropriated by the United States Congress to prosecute U.S. military action in Iraq and Afghanistan;

    Since the proposal is simply to redeploy troops now in Iraq, how much of this money is being spent in Iraq will continue to need to be spent as we re-deploy? Why does he use Afganistan at all since we are not talking about Afganistan? It seems like he has put a price tag on Iraq and in his opinion it has gotten to expensive and so victory or defeat does not matter any longer.
    Apparently there must be some kind of tie in with Afghanistan. A lot of people have put a price tag on Iraq, and that is a big sticking issue with the american people in general too.

    The bottom line is this proposal is a proposal, not a plan. With no bench mark triggers to pull the troops out, the only thing this proposal accomplishes is a little bit of political capitol for his party should it every get taken to a vote and passed. It is the same thing we have now, a proposal to withdraw troops but no plan as to how the timeline will be determined.
    That's why it's called a proposal. And that won't go for a vote until a plan for withdrawal has already been discussed and established. Then the blanks on the proposal can be filled in and the thing go for a vote.

    You must be tired, you usually catch these kinds of details. :)

    Lady Mod

  15. #15
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    war_man is offline the gatekeeper of honesty and integrity in self
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Personally I think the Republicans are fun to watch, cause with them you get to play the fun game whitch one of them is gonna have balls enough to tell the real truth this week. Its a game most everybody looses cause their teacher our president has just taught them to god darn well to lie and scam the nation on a daily bases..
    war_on_scam

  16. #16
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    Re: democrats are fun to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    good democrats of earth!?of course they are for the earth!!that's why the repugs have killed the environment to make up for tax cuts!!troop morale!?hey!! just like porn,they can turn of the tv!!or are you confessin the majority of enlistee's are forced to join for POOR economic reasons that arn't ready to die fer pork chop hill!?they just need the money!?call it bait and switch!?it's so american these days!!lieberman is a "whiny" jew!!get a clue!!and get outa the payola line!!wimpy!!OOPS!!did i break the new rules!?
    :eek: :p :rolleyes:

    You can go back to the gibberish anytime.

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