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  1. #1
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    Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    If there is no son of God, as I have maintained, much of the New Testament is in error. What happens to the gospels or Paul's writings without the son of God? What happens to hundreds of years of Christian theology? What happens to the many salvation stories without the son of God? The vast amount of damage caused by such an idea is immeasurable. But what if it is true? The problem with the question is there is no evidence. Everything about the Bible and Jesus is based on faith. However, we do know Jews exist and there is a nation of Israel. So, something must be going on with regard to Jews. Then, we have archaeological evidence for the existence of Jewish tribes and ancient lands occupied by God's chosen people.

    I believe God made Jews his chosen people, and God was the OT Messiah who became Jesus. From my dream revelations, I know Jesus was God, and there is no son of God. Furthermore, I know God is a duality, which may explain a lot of misunderstanding about Jesus in the New Testament.

    https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?...Duality-of-God

    https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?...is-a-pagan-god

    https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?...False-theology!

    https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?...-for-Salvation!

    So, if there is no son of God, how do you interpret the gospels and Paul's writings? If you try to unravel those NT books without the son of God, they fall apart. What remains is Judaism. My theory about what happened is God came into the world to "give testimony" to his chosen people. Then, after his death, or murder, Jesus movement leaders rewrote the whole story with a "marketing ploy." Would Christianity have been as successful without the son of God? Probably not! God didn't come into the world to start a new religion, he came into the world to "give testimony" to his chosen people. For an accurate story of the life of Jesus (God), read the book of Revelation, Chapter 11 about the two witnesses (duality of God), and Chapter 12 about Satan attacking God while he was in the world as Jesus. Apparently, John, the author of Revelation, believed Jesus was the son of God. However, if you factor out the idea of the son of God from Revelation, you find it to be an accurate story about humankind, God's chosen people, and world events. The book of Revelation may therefore be regarded as more relevant for Jews, or Judaism, than for Christianity.

    Some important meanings change in the book of Revelation when you factor out the son of God. Assuming Jesus was not the son of God, Christianity becomes a pagan religion. I realized I am in hot water for proposing the idea of there being no son of God, but, if it is true, the book takes on a different meaning. As an example, if the first Beast of Revelation (Rev. 13) is Christianity. Then, in reference to "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast," (Rev. 13-3) we have the son of God as the wound in a "new world religion." Because there is no son of God, Christianity becomes a pagan religion. God's prosecuted people are Jews, and Christians and Muslims are two major world religions which have persecute them. In the context of new meanings, the second beast (Rev. 13:11) is Islam, and the mark of the beast (666) is Allah. Both Christians and Jews have persecuted God's chosen people. With new meanings for words, interpretations change. Subsequently, Revelation has an entirely different meaning than found in Christian theology.

    In my opinion, the reason why Christianity has become so appealing is because it brings God down to a human level. Humans want to identify with a religious leader, or with one they can identify with in order to feel compatible. If Jesus movement leaders had not changed meanings to make Jesus the son of God, there may not have been a new religion. And, assuming Jews didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah, then, there may have been little for Judaism to change. Jesus could have been regarded as a prophet. However, inasmuch as followers of Jesus wanted to overthrow their Roman overlords, they probably wouldn't have accepted Jesus as God unless he fulfilled an important need.

    God (Jesus) did not intend to start a new religion. God, doesn't micro-manage. People make freewill choices which may or may not agree with God's intentions. Followers of Jesus came up with narrative stories that changed Jews perception of Jesus. If you read gospels written prior to the NT gospels you don't find those narrative stories (Jesus is the son of God, Jesus is tempted by the devil, John baptizes Jesus, Jesus drives out devils, Jesus heals many, Jesus walks on water, etc.). Apparently, those stories were added for the Jesus movement to gain support. Here is an excellent source for origins of those ideas, The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. Revelation 11 about the two witnesses (God's duality) is the most reliable story about Jesus.

    Again, there is no mention of the son of God in the Old Testament or in Jewish holy writings. In many respects, Christianity is a means by which people have maintained prejudices against Jews. Why would God take Judaism and revise it to eliminate original meanings? Satan has succeeded in assisting Christian leaders in replacing God's chosen people with Christians and his holy words with deceptive and unrelated meanings. Then, we have Islam, which is even more of an abomination for perverting God's holy words. It is interesting that Muslims primary adversary are Jews. Why would God's chosen people become the enemies of Islam? According to Revelation, Christians are the first beast and Islam is the second beast. God didn't change his mind about his chosen people, they are the Jews, and Israel is the land the Lord gave them. It is all written in the Old Testament. The New Testament contradicts God's holy words. Even more of a contradiction to God's holy words is the Koran which proclaims Allah to be God. The Lord's Old Testament Jews and Israel are surrounded by enemies. God didn't abandon his chosen people, the world has attacked, murdered, and persecuted them.

    Paul was dedicated to the idea of Jesus being the son of God. As an example, Paul begins Romans with a strong statement about the son of God.

    “Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospels of God --- the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scripture regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descent of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 1: 1-4)

    The problem with Paul’s statement about Jesus “the son of God” is there are no references in the Old Testament as proposed. Where in the Old Testament do you find such a statement about the son of God? I have searched, and I have found nothing. One must not, in searching scripture, confuse literal with figurative interpretations. With figurative interpretations, almost any idea can be referenced depending on creative skills of the author. If you search for a literal interpretation to the son of God in the Old Testament, you find nothing! Moreover, in the Old Testament, you don't find confirmation for Paul's statement: "the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scripture regarding his Son." So, if we find no OT references, why should we believe what Paul wrote?
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-23-2018 at 01:18 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    maybe god likes to KEEP SECRETS!!
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  3. #3
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    maybe god likes to KEEP SECRETS!!
    You have a brain, ha, ha. Use it! If you can't present a logical argument for the son of God, admit it. Saying it is a mystery means you don't know. Well, then, if you don't know, why do you believe in the son of God? I am constantly being challenged on this forum to support my ideas. Same rules apply to those who disagree with me!

    You can, of course, admit to blind faith, it is what Christianity is based on. Not knowing the implications of believing a human to have supernatural powers, Christians believe in Jesus who Paul claims to be the first born of God. Paul got himself into trouble by proposing such a huge "logical inconsistency." In terms of a convincing argument, it doesn't address the most basic tenants of logic. How can Jesus be the firstborn of God and Christians be brothers of Jesus? Based on logic, it makes every Christian a god. Why haven't others discovered these logical discrepancies? Oh, I get it, it has allowed the Catholic Church to declare Saints like Mary to be idols of worship. Yes, Catholics worship Saints, or pagan gods! Isn't it interesting how so many Catholics feel comfortable praying to Saints, a way of ignoring God. And, how about those Saints? Where do they get their holiness or Saintly powers to do this or that? Isn't it evidence for humans preferring pagan gods?
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-23-2018 at 05:00 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    you DISAGREE that god keeps secrets!? but i say he gives CLUES!! which you claim have DIFFERENT meanings than what Christians believe!? your THEORY is god created the universe as a PRISON!? not a TESTING grounds for MAN!?
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  5. #5
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    you DISAGREE that god keeps secrets!? but i say he gives CLUES!! which you claim have DIFFERENT meanings than what Christians believe!? your THEORY is god created the universe as a PRISON!? not a TESTING grounds for MAN!?
    I have state God created the universe as a prison of Satan. Humans are collateral damage from that decision. However, God has offered humans salvation when he chose Jews as His chosen people. It is a long story (Bible). Based on what I know, the basic reason for everything falling apart is "obedience to God." Humans prefer to not obey God's Commandments. It is really that simply! subsequently, salvation is a slim possibility. It all began in heaven when Satan decided to be independent from God. Nothing has changed. God hasn't changed, He requires obedience. If you follow it through it makes sense. How would it be in heaven if all creatures went there own way, doing what they wanted, ignoring God's holiness and omnipotence. So, you say, humans should have freedom to do whatever they like. Well, yes, but in heaven it is different, there is only one God. My understanding is God didn't create creatures to be gods, or independent of him. If you don't want to be in the presence of God, there is no other alternative but nonexistence.

    Satan is a different case; as and angel, he is immortality. Humans are mortal creatures, they weren't created to be like angels. However, in paradise, they had immortality, but when paradise fell, creatures became mortal. Again, it is necessary to know the nature of things in heaven. God created thirteen angels. Now, after Satan rebelled, there are twelve angels.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-23-2018 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    do you propose BELIEF has NOTHING to do with OBEDIENCE!? that 1 can red and THINK about how to BE and that if practiced is sufficient to reach heaven!? is man really ever gonna see heaven!? heaven sounds STRANGE and BORING!? and a heaven on earth if implemented would mean NO toil or hard work!? and speak of the devil what possible reason could he have to disobey god!?
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  7. #7
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    do you propose BELIEF has NOTHING to do with OBEDIENCE!? that 1 can red and THINK about how to BE and that if practiced is sufficient to reach heaven!? is man really ever gonna see heaven!? heaven sounds STRANGE and BORING!? and a heaven on earth if implemented would mean NO toil or hard work!? and speak of the devil what possible reason could he have to disobey god!?
    If you believe God demands obedient and you prefer God over pagan gods, you will obey His Commandments. It is a matter of "freewill." It is your choice. It is not complicated.

    You say, "heaven sounds STRANGE and BORING!?" Perhaps that is the reason why people don't like it. Unfortunately, humans have no substitute! Like or cease to exist!

    If you read Revelation, God has an answer, it is a heaven city sent to earth.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-23-2018 at 06:30 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    to obey god would require the CEASING of external influences and ending of mental disturbances known as voices in the head or URGES to the SENSUAL EXISTENCE!? another way to put it to hear god 1 would have to know god!? does god THINK!? if not than who is the THINKER!? the idea of creation and thought as being co-generating!?
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  9. #9
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    to obey god would require the CEASING of external influences and ending of mental disturbances known as voices in the head or URGES to the SENSUAL EXISTENCE!? another way to put it to hear god 1 would have to know god!? does god THINK!? if not than who is the THINKER!? the idea of creation and thought as being co-generating!?
    Humans have developed brains to function on earth. In heaven, there is no necessity for solving problems for everyday living. Whether we are with God in heaven or He is with us in a heavenly city on earth, it would be all about God. It goes back to why God created beings. He first created angels to be in his presence. In paradise, it was about creatures being in God's presence on earth as God was above them enjoying his creation.

    It is difficult to imagine God all by himself in eternity, but that is the way it was. The two Gods decided to have companions to interact with them. For that to occur, creatures have to be in God's presence. Otherwise, what purpose would it be to created beings? God wouldn't do it for creatures to have their own worlds, and then to compete with God the way creatures on earth compete with one another.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-23-2018 at 08:09 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    i cant help notice your insistence on 1 god followed by the next paragraph saying there are 2 gods!!
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  11. #11
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i cant help notice your insistence on 1 god followed by the next paragraph saying there are 2 gods!!
    I stated in a previous posting when I refer to God I mean two Gods. It is awkward to say Gods. Everyone is confused. Moreover, since the two Gods are never separated from one another, they are in a sphere in heaven. The reality is in heaven the two Gods interact with one another and angels around them. It is the ultimate mystery. If you pursue the idea of duality you will find it everywhere in nature including the biological world. It is God's signature on His creation. I have given up trying to convince anyone. Facts mean nothing when you are brainwashed with an ideology. ha. ha. I suppose I could be accused of the same, but, what I know is not out there. For that, you have to admit it is a new point of view. My dreams have lead me to some interesting conclusions. My dreams don't reject the Bible, they put it into another perspective, one with significant ideas with respect to symbolism and literal interpretations. I am considering writing a theology book based on my religious perspective.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-24-2018 at 12:52 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    it's a unique theory in many ways but is dependent on your dreams/visions!? i personally dont think it's valid based on my knowledge!
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  13. #13
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    it's a unique theory in many ways but is dependent on your dreams/visions!? i personally dont think it's valid based on my knowledge!
    This is the religious section of the forum, it depends on ideas about religion. Where are your ideas? Again, read the Bible!

    Has lexx every read a book? ha. ha.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-25-2018 at 01:16 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    every man sees what he wants to see in what he reads!! you are NO EXCEPTION!! which is WHY i dont SOLELY rely on biblical desriptions!!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  15. #15
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    every man sees what he wants to see in what he reads!! you are NO EXCEPTION!! which is WHY i dont SOLELY rely on biblical desriptions!!
    It would help if you had read the Bible. ha. ha.

  16. #16
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    Re: Jesus Hypotheses: Son of God or God?

    From what we know about early gospels, the ones before the four NT gospels, Jesus spent a lot of time speaking about the "kingdom of heaven." The reason was because Jesus was God. However, after his death, leaders of the new church couldn't stand it. Their concern was with this world and their ruler, the Roman Empire. It didn't take long until they had redefined God. They brought Jesus down to their level by making him just like them, one more brother in a pagan world. Then, to make it official, they created the Trinity. People now had a choice, they could worship a man like themselves, or God, who had been brought down to the human level. Then, it became confusing. Pray to Jesus, a man like me, or pray to his father, who on earth was a man like me. Yes, you see, if Jesus is part of the Trinity, he would be next to God, the father, so praying to Jesus is like praying to both father and son. Oh, I almost forgot. If you have trouble praying to father or son, ask for the holy spirit, the other part of the Trinity. Then, you can have divine understanding, so you don't need either father or son. Yes, indeed, the Trinity is a complete package.
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-10-2019 at 11:42 PM.

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