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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Impact of Biblical Contradictions for Salvation!

    What happened to ancient people in Old Testament times for not knowing about Jesus as the son of God? Is it true, they were denied salvation because they couldn’t accept Jesus? Would it be fair to condemn people simple because they weren’t born at the right time? Did God error in His calculation for bringing Jesus into the world? These are serious questions about salvation which should be addressed.

    There is an explanation, however, to these bafflements. First, God doesn’t violate his own natural laws, including logic. Second, God doesn’t violate principles of morality as proposed to his chosen people in Old Testament times. Third, God came into the world as Jesus “to give testimony” to his chosen people. Moreover, God is a duality, which may explain NT authors difficulty in explaining “Jesus sayings.” Unable to understand God as a man (Jesus), and wanting to establish a new religion, NT authors concocted son of God narratives, some of which concern salvation.

    In truth, there are no Biblical contradictions in the Old Testament for salvation. The problem is directly related to New Testament authors' errors! Assuming Jesus was the Old Testament Lord, and there is no son of God, we have the same God in the Old Testament as found in the NewTestament, and, inasmuch as there is no son of God to be sacrificed for salvation, we have a tragic story about humans murdering God, and then reinterpreting events. Thus, we hear Christian clergy bellowing, “believe in Jesus the son of God for your salvation.” In reality, they should be bellowing,“believe in the Jewish Lord for your salvation.” The problem Is a direct result of a terrible error. By defining Jesus as a son of God sacrificial lamb, NT authors began a religious conflict between OT and NT verses which can never be resolved.

    If NT authors had it right and defined Jesus as the OT Lord, and not the son of God, there would be no Christianity. There would be stories about the Old Testament Lord coming into the world as Jesus, a man, to give testimony to his chosen people. In the Jewish tradition of expecting a Messiah, Jesus would have become another cornerstone of Judaism. In reference to God’s duality, there is an accurate story about Jesus (God) in Revelation 11 concerning “two witnesses ” (God).
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-05-2018 at 05:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Re: Impact of Biblical Contradictions for Salvation!

    If there is no son of God, as I have maintained, much of the New Testament is in error. What happens to the gospels or Paul's writings without the son of God? What happens to hundreds of years of Christian theology? What happens to the many salvation stories without the son of God? The vast amount of damage caused by such an idea is immeasurable. But what if it is true? The problem with the questions is there is no evidence. Everything about the Bible and Jesus is based on faith. We do know, however, Jews exist and there is a nation of Israel. So, something must be going on with regard to Jews. Then, we have archaeological evidence for the existence of Jewish tribes and ancient lands occupied by God's chosen people.

    I admit to also having no evidence outside of my dreams and visions posted on this forum. Moreover, I have no following for my religious ideas. I believe God made Jews his chosen people, and God was the OT Messiah who became Jesus. From my revelations, I know Jesus was God, and there is no son of God. Furthermore, I know God is a duality, which may explain a lot of misunderstanding about Jesus in the New Testament.

    So, if there is no son of God, how do you interpret the gospels and Paul's writings? If you try to unravel those NT books without the son of God, they fall apart. What remains is Judaism. My theory about what happened is God came into the world to "give testimony" to his chosen people. Then, after his death, or murder, Jesus movement leaders rewrote the whole story with a "marketing ploy." Would Christianity have been as successful without the son of God? Probably not! God didn't come into the world to start a new religion, he came into the world to "give testimony" to his chosen people. For an accurate story of the life of Jesus (God), read the book of Revelation, Chapter 11 about the two witnesses (duality of God), and Chapter 12 about Satan attacking God while he was in the world as Jesus. Apparently, John, the author of Revelation, believed Jesus was the son of God. However, if you factor out the idea of the son of God from Revelation, you find it to be an accurate story about humankind, God's chosen people, and world events. The book of Revelation may therefore be regarded as more relevant for Jews, or Judaism, than for Christianity.

    Some important meanings change in the book of Revelation when you factor out the son of God. Assuming Jesus was not the son of God, Christianity becomes a pagan religion. I realized I am in hot water for proposing the idea of there being no son of God, but, if it is true, the book takes on a different meaning. As an example, if the first Beast of Revelation (Rev. 13) is Christianity. Then, in reference to "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast," (Rev. 13-3) we have the son of God as the wound in a "new world religion." Because there is no son of God, Christianity becomes a pagan religion. God's prosecuted people are Jews, and Christians and Muslims are two major world religions which have persecute them. In the context of new meanings, the second beast (Rev. 13:11) is Islam, and the mark of the beast (666) is Allah. Both Christians and Jews have persecuted God's chosen people. With new meanings for words, interpretations change. Subsequently, Revelation has an entirely different meaning than found in Christian theology.

    In my opinion, the reason why Christianity has become so appealing is because it brings God down to a human level. Humans want to identify with a religious leader, or with one they can identify with in order to feel compatible. If Jesus movement leaders had not changed meanings to make Jesus the son of God, there may not have been a new religion. And, assuming Jews didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah, then, there may have been little for Judaism to change. Jesus could have been regarded as a prophet. However, inasmuch as followers of Jesus wanted to overthrow their Roman overlords, they probably wouldn't have accepted Jesus as God unless he fulfilled an important need.

    God (Jesus) did not intend to start a new religion. God, doesn't micro-manage. People make freewill choices which may or may not agree with God's intentions. Followers of Jesus came up with narrative stories that changed Jews perception of Jesus. If you read gospels written prior to the NT gospels you don't find those narrative stories (Jesus is the son of God, Jesus is tempted by the devil, John baptizes Jesus, Jesus drives out devils, Jesus heals many, Jesus walks on water, etc.). Apparently, those stories were added for the Jesus movement to gain support. Here is an excellent source for origins of those ideas, The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. Revelation 11 about the two witnesses (God's duality) is the most reliable story about Jesus.

    Again, there is no mention of the son of God in the Old Testament or in Jewish holy writings. In many respects, Christianity is a means by which people have maintained prejudices against Jews. Why would God take Judaism and revise it to eliminate original meanings? Satan has succeeded in assisting Christian leaders in replacing God's chosen people with Christians and his holy words with deceptive and unrelated meanings. Then, we have Islam, which is even more of an abomination for perverting God's holy words. It is interesting that Muslims primary adversary are Jews. Why would God's chosen people become the enemies of Islam? According to Revelation, Christians are the first beast and Islam is the second beast. God didn't change his mind about his chosen people, they are the Jews, and Israel is the land the Lord gave them. It is all written in the Old Testament. The New Testament contradicts God's holy words. Even more of a contradiction to God's holy words is the Koran which proclaims Allah to be God. The Lord's Old Testament Jews and Israel are surrounded by enemies. God didn't abandon his chosen people, the world has attacked, murdered, and persecuted them.

    Paul was dedicated to the idea of Jesus being the son of God. As an example, Paul begins Romans with a strong statement about the son of God.

    “Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospels of God --- the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scripture regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descent of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 1: 1-4)

    The problem with Paul’s statement about Jesus “the son of God” is there are no references in the Old Testament as proposed. Where in the Old Testament do you find such a statement about the son of God? I have searched, and I have found nothing. One must not, in searching scripture, confuse literal with figurative interpretations. With figurative interpretations, almost any idea can be referenced depending on creative skills of the author. If you search for a literal interpretation to the son of God in the Old Testament, you find nothing! Moreover, in the Old Testament, you don't find confirmation for Paul's statement: "the gospel he promised before hand through his prophets in the Holy Scripture regarding his Son." So, if we find no OT references, why should we believe what Paul wrote?
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-07-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Re: Impact of Biblical Contradictions for Salvation!

    If you extract what Paul said about Jesus, the son of God, from his writings, you would have a philosophy for individual freedom. It can be argued that freedom from an apathetic life can lead to a philosophy of being and nothingness, whereas, meaning and happiness if found by contrasting being with nonbeing, is the final stage in our quest for meaning. For Paul, believing in Jesus becomes the beginning of our journey to eternal life with God. Alternatively, what if believing in the OT Lord is the real path to salvation.

    What have been the consequences for Paul and other NTwriters for concocting Jesus stories? Certainly, if they went back to the OT Lord, matters would change. If Jesus were not real, then he’s another pagan God. The story of Jesus has become a liberating force for those who don’t like the Old Testament Lord. From the beginning of Homo Sapiens, this seems to be the pattern. In many ways, Jesus is a better fit for the needs of human beings. Paul painted a user-friendly image of Jesus whereby he was “our brother,” the firstborn of God (Romans 8:29), who, like us was a man, who loves us, forgives our sins, and is anxious to be with us as “co-heirs” in heaven where we’ll share in his glory. (Romans 8:17) What glory? I thought all the glory goes to God.

    In the OT, every time prophets bowed or attempted to worship an angel, the angel admonished him. Angels have no time to be glorified or be co-heirs with Jesus or his brothers. They’re too busy being in God’s presence worshiping him. They have no desire to challenge God. There is a suggestion in Paul’s writings that “co-heirs” have worship rights. Otherwise, why does Paul call them “co-heirs?” Aren’t we to glorify God? Knowing human nature, how successful would Paul and other NT authors have been be if they had promoted the Lord, holy and without fault, who said in Exodus “I am who I am” (Ex. 3:14)? Satan, who challenged God for His throne, skipped making up a God to become a God. Throughout history, the pattern for humans has been similar, make up a god or become "holy" like the real God, or the god one imagines to be real. Mostly, little effort has been made to seek the OT Lord, the one true God who came into the world for his chosen people.
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-17-2018 at 11:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Re: Impact of Biblical Contradictions for Salvation!

    Again, it should be mention, the gospels and Paul's writings are in error because Jesus was God and not the son of God.

    There have been lot of opinions about the Beasts of Revelation. Many believers have thought the beasts are symbols for world leaders. I propose they don't represent a person, they represent two major world religions. The first Beast (Rev. 13) is a major Christian religion, better known as the
    Catholic Church. As a Christian religion, it was coming into prominence about the time of John's revelation. The second Beast (Rev. 13) is Islam, a major world religion. As for the number 666, which has garnered much attention, it represents Allah, the god of Islam's holy book, the Koran.

    One might ask why? Isn't Jesus the basis for the Catholic Church? If Jesus, as I have proposed, was God, and not the son of God, then the Catholic Church and all other Christian religions are false. It is sad to imagine there is no son of God (Jesus), and therefore no salvation for accepting a sacrificial lamb as one's savior. There is a specific reference for this defect in the Christian faith. Read the following quote from Revelation about the first Beast. "One of the heads of the beast seemed tohave been fatally wounded, but the wound had healed. The whole world was amazed and followed the Beast" (Rev. 13:3). The wound represents the false idea that Jesus was the son of God. The error, of course, has huge implications. How many millions of believers have placed their faith in the son of God for their salvation?

    It is interesting to note the comment about the power of the first Beast. "Everyone worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast." (Rev. 13:4) Assuming Satan is the dragon, we have Satan dominating Christianity. It is difficult to believe, but it may be true. If there is no son of God, there is no salvation for believing in him, so what remains is a false religion. The implication is God's chosen people follow the one true religion. I have always wondered why Judaism was replaced by Christianity. If Jesus was the OT Lord, then Judaism remains as God's religion. Why would God propose Judaism as his religion in the Old Testament and then change his mind and switch to the Christian religion? Satan is devious and cunning in many ways for attacking and destroying. As for Islam, when Mohammed was in a cave, he had an encounter with an angel which began his quest for a new religion. Could that spirit have been Satan? It is a good possibility.

    What about other world religions which don't accept Jesus as God, and subsequently Judaism as God's religion? Well, apparently, God is not pleased. "then I heard a loud voice speaking from the temple to the seven angels. . . . . Go and pour out the seven bowls of God's anger on the earth!" (Rev. 16:1)

    Concerning the Catholic Church, the first beast of Revelation, we have additional beasts with Protestant churches, sects, and cults. Also, the Christian Trinity is part of the beast insofar as it excludes the God of Israel, or the one and only God of Abraham and Moses. The Trinity, an essential theological attribute of Christianity, is a pagan god; it proposes false ideas about God. In particular, if there is no son of God, there is no Trinity.

    For about two thousand years, Christianity has flourished to become a major world religion while Judaism has faded into obscurity. Did God get it wrong when he declared himself to be the Lord of His chosen people? Apparently, it is the results of overzealous Christians with creative imaginations, willing to do anything to promote a new world religion? In the beginning when God communicated with Abraham, there was no son of God, no holy spirit, just the Lord God. Then when God came into the world as Jesus, humans could not conceive of God's true nature. Even today, humans cannot comprehend God's duality. Everything, including God, must be calibrated based on human perceptions. That may not seem fair, but it may partly explain humans' inability to understanding God.

    Assuming God is a duality, and Jesus was God, the whole story changes. Assuming Jesus talked about Himself as two persons, one may understand how NT authors got it wrong. Then, after church leaders declared their relationship to a holy spirit and therefore a special understanding of the son of God, the Christian movement took off. To fit expectations for a new religion, Jesus became the sacrificial lamb for Christianity, thus promising salvation, which has become an enormous appeal for new believers. Believe in Jesus, the son of God, befaithful, and you'll be saved! However, what if there is no son of god? In short, Christianity is based on false beliefs. Why is there no mention of the son of God in the Old Testament? Why would God lie to his chosen people? Is Israel a fiction? No, God did not lie. Christian authors of the gospel, Paul and his followers all got it wrong. They became the foundation for the "first beast" of Revelation.

    The Holy Spirit is a human invention. It has become convenient for Christian leaders to declare truth in the name of the holy spirit. How many pastors have declared this or that based on what the "Holy Spirit" told them? It must be one of the greatest hoaxes in history. We don't find the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament of in Judaism.

    With new and attractive theologies, Christianity, the first beast, has become an important world religion. Much of Revelation is about the persecution of Jews and the repression of Judaism as God's religion.

    On might ask, why has Anti-Semitism been so pervasive? For example, what happened to Christians in Germany when the Nazi party persecuted and murdered several million Jews? Why didn’t German Christians or Christians from other nations come to the rescue of God’s chosen people? Oh, we know about the allies fighting Germany, but, primarily, they were motivated to defeat Hitler's Third Reich, not to rescue Jews. Then, when Israel began as a nation, where were Christians to assist them? If you read about the heroic deeds of Jews defending themselves against Arab (Muslims) attacks, it is remarkable to note how little support they got from Christians. Now, with the second beast (Islam), Satan is using Arab nations to destroy God’s chosen people.

    Revelation is also about end times. Islam, the second beast, has caused, and will cause, strife and wars with Israel (Rev.16). Major Middle East cities will be destroyed (Rev. 17), and the world'seconomy will suffer devastating losses (Rev. 18).

    In order to consider adversarial roles of the two beasts in the history of God’s chosen people, one should read Revelation forward from Chapter 11. Regarding an understanding, note verses related to “God’s chosen people.” Chapter 11 (two witnesses) is God’s story when he was in the world as Jesus. The “two witnesses” refers to the duality of God. Chapter 12 is about Satan attacking God when he was in the world as Jesus. In short, much of Revelation can be correlated with world history in the context of “God’s chosen people.” I realize my comments about Revelation are controversial because there are millions of Christians who believe Jesus was the son of God. It becomes even more controversial when you know God is a duality. There is no Trinity!
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-21-2018 at 06:48 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Re: Impact of Biblical Contradictions for Salvation!

    There is evidence, some of it literal interpretation, for Rev. 11 about the two witnesses being the story of Jesus. As an example, for the time period, multiple 42 (Rev.11:1) by 30, the results is 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3). Divide 1,260 days by 365, the results are 31/2 years. I don’t think John (author of Revelation) believed Revelation 12 was about the death of Jesus. I have taken the liberty to link Chapter 11 to Chapter 12 to described the life and death of Jesus (God). Based on the logic of literal interpretation, there is evidence for both chapters being related.

    Revelation 12 is about the woman and the dragon. It is the story about God’s angels fighting Satan while God was in the world as Jesus. Notice the women (God), “clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.” (Rev. 12:1-2). Note the twelve stars on her head. They represent God’s twelve angels; Satan is the thirteenth angel. Jesus (God) was about to give testimony to His chosen people. Then, Satan threatened Jesus (God).

    “The dragon stood in front of the woman (God) who was about to give birth. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” (Rev. 12:4-5). The male child represents Jesus (God).

    “The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1, 260 days.” (Rev. 12:6). Again, the time in Chapter 11 and 12 are the same, 1,260 days. Both chapters refer to the same event, the time God was in the world as Jesus. Michael, God's General, led the other angels to fight Satan in heaven. "And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down---that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan., who leads the whole world astray." (Rev. 12:7-9).

    "When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who gave birth to the male child.” (Rev. 12:13). The child was Jesus (God). “Then, the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring --- those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Rev. 12:17). Thus, we have nearly two thousand years of Anti-Semitism and the holocaust. Today, Jews and Israel, the land God gave to his chosen people, have been the center of Middle East conflict and wars, all of which have threatened world peace.
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-22-2018 at 12:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Re: Impact of Biblical Contradictions for Salvation!

    In order to promote his new religion, Paul misquoted and misinterpreted Old Testament scripture. If Paul’s theology stands, it must stand without the Old Testament. He made many references to the Old Testament, and not all references are in error, just the ones vital to Christian theology. The following are major theological blunders made by Paul.

    Paul’s most serious blunder was when he misquoted Old Testament verse referring to Moses’ “fading glory.” Paul wrote, “We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away.” (2 Cor. 3:13). If you read Exodus 34:29-35 (quoting fromNIV Bible), you’ll find no mention of Moses doing what Paul wrote. What the OT says with reference to Moses’ radiant face is found in Exodus. “When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him.” (EX 34:30). This contradicts Paul’s version of what happened. Also, according to Exodus 34-35, “And when he came out and told the Israelites what he had commanded, they saw his face was radiant. Then Moses would put the veil back over his face until he went in to speak with the Lord.” Here, the verse does not say, “radiance was fading away.” This is the beginning of Paul’s assertion that not only are ‘believers” superior to the Jews, but that when you look at a believer you see Jesus Christ and the glory of God in their face, etc. This leads to the notion that without Jesus Christ you cannot see the Lord and that Jesus in us has replaced the fading glory of Moses. Reading Paul, you get the impression that he has replaced Moses as Israel’s spiritual leader.

    Paul’s assertion that gentiles have replaced Israel as the Lord’s chosen people is not found in OT scripture. The scripture in Jeremiah (31:31-34) that references the Lord’s new covenant does not refer to gentiles replacing Israel. In particular, Jeremiah writes, “This covenant I will make with the house of Israel––” (Jer.31:33).

    Apparently, Christians have deluded themselves into believing they are also sons of God and therefore equal to Jesus.

    Paul wrote concerning Jesus, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called, those he called, he also justified, he also glorified.” (Romans 29 & 30). According to Paul, Christians are equal to the son of God. Paul gets even more ridiculous when he states, “Now if we are children, then we are heirs – heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his suffering in order that we may also share in his glory.” (Romans 8:17). One may ask: when did God conceive a son?” Isn’t God eternal? We know God create time when he created creatures. Evidently, according to New Testament authors, God created the son of God when Jesus came into the world. Things really get wacky when you make up stories to explain away what really happened. The better explanation is Jesus was God and because He is a duality, followers got everything mixed up. They interpreted God’s duality as father and son. From there, the Christian train went way off the track into the wilderness of make-believe. With so many Christian religious, it is difficult to know which one to believe. It makes God a crazy bunch of abstract paintings, none that makes any sense.

    For Christians, Paul’s statements are very appealing; they (Christians) can also be like Jesus, the son of God. Does it mean Christians are part of the holy trinity? It shows what kind of ridiculous conclusions you can reach when your religious train ventures into a fairyland, or when you defy logic in your beliefs.
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-28-2018 at 02:34 PM.

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