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  1. #33
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    Ahh, lamb.



    That looks damn tasty.

  2. #34
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    CHESTY
    Last edited by Cnance; 08-17-2018 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #35
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    Name:  lambs balls.jpg
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    yum yum. One nice lamb testicle haha. Eat up Nance, you need some balls haha.

  4. #36
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    DESTROY CHESTY THE SNAKE!

  5. #37
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    If you pursue an open and unbiased investigation into the gospels, you will discover, as I have posted on this forum, that those NT authors wrote their gospels several decades after Jesus was killed, and ignored facts and circumstances of his death. Here are references:

    The Missing Gospels by Darrell L. Bock, PH.D., The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. The book by Mack is the most important. Using a brilliant analysis supported by the world's foremost biblical scholars, Mack traces the time line for the Jesus movement, documenting when Jesus movement leaders changed the Jesus narrative from Jesus a wise man to Jesus the son of God.

    I have no documented reference for my idea that Jesus was God and not the son of God. However, Christians don't have any documented or historical confirmation either! Unfortunately, there is little evidence for Christians being scholars. If they were, they would serious question their assumptions about Jesus.
    If, as I suggested, the lamb of God represents Jews, and not Christians or Jesus as a sacrificial lamb for humankind, then we have acompletely new interpretation of Revelation, as I have proposed. Israel is the modern-day lamb of God attacked in three major wars by Arab nations (the second beast ofRevelation), which I have interpreted as Islam, the first prophet being Muhammad. I posted these relationships on my thread entitled "Who are Beasts of Revelation?"

    As far as I know my reinterpretation of Revelation is extremely controversial. It violates sacred values of Christianity, and proposes God's religion with his chosen people is the first and last religion for the world. My justification for this position is based on the OT Lord's many admonitions to his chosen people to reject pagan Gods. Again, assuming Jesus was God, and not the son of God, then Christianity would be a pagan religion inasmuch as Christianity is about the son of God, a false deity. I know it is a serious charge, but, again, God was very stern in His admonishments against pagan gods. It is there throughout the Old Testament,"don't worship pagan gods."

    As for why it happened, read the history or the NT gospels, it is in the historical record of how they were written with no NT author being a eyewitness, stories being revised to the point where Jesus was reinterpreted to become a "sacrificial lamb" to save humankind. In original gospels, the ones destroyed by church leaders, we have some remaining fragments which indicated Jesus was a sage or wise leader, not the son of God. It is also very interesting that Jesus spoke about the "Kingdom of Heaven." It was as if he had been there! Then, we have church leaders noting Jesus making references to himself as two persons. Well, they resolved it to mean Jesus was both father and son, when the real story was Jesus was God, and God is a duality. I know, no one believes it. Well, maybe not, but it certainly explains discrepancies.

    Assuming God's chosen people are "the lamb of God" in Revelation, then, Rev. 14 about "the lamb and the 144,000" is clear in meaning. It reads as follows: "Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his Father's name written on their foreheads." Rev. 14:1. What other people except God's chosen people would have "his Father's name written on their foreheads"? Oh, one could argue any religious group would qualify. However, assuming Christianity is the first beast of Revelation and Islam is the second beast of Revelation, what remains is Judaism and Jews. Again, if there is no son of God, Christianity is a pagan religion. And, if Allah is not God, Islam is a pagan religion.

    Interpreting the "lamb of God" as God's chosen people, as I have proposed, brings the entire book of Revelation into a meaningful context.
    Last edited by Cnance; 09-10-2018 at 07:52 PM.

  6. #38
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    • If, as I suggested, the lamb of God represents Jews, and not Christians or Jesus as a sacrificial lamb for humankind, then we have a completely new interpretation of Revelation, as I have proposed. Israel is the modern day lamb of God attacked in three major wars by Arab nations (the second beast of Revelation), which I have interpreted as Islam, the first prophet being Muhammad. I posted these relationships on my thread entitled "Who are Beasts of Revelation?"

      As far as I know my reinterpretation of Revelation is extremely controversial. It violates sacred values of Christianity, and proposes God's religion with his chosen people is the first and last religion for the world. My justification for this position is based on the OT Lord's many admonitions to his chosen people to reject pagan Gods. Again, assuming Jesus was God, and not the son of God, then Christianity would be a pagan religion inasmuch as Christianity is about the son of God, a false deity. I know it is a serious charge, but, again, God was very stern in His admonishments against pagan gods. It is there throughout the Old Testament, "don't worship pagan gods."

      As for why it happened, read the history or the NT gospels, it is in the historical record of how they were written with no NT author being a eyewitness, stories being revised to the point where Jesus was reinterpreted to become a "sacrificial lamb" to save humankind. In original gospels, the ones destroyed by church leaders, we have some remaining fragments which indicated Jesus was a sage or wise leader, not the son of God. It is also very interesting that Jesus spoke about the "Kingdom of Heaven." It was as if he had been there! Then, we have church leaders noting Jesus making references to himself as two persons. Well, they resolved it to mean Jesus was both father and son, when the real story was Jesus was God, and God is a duality. I know, no one believes it. Well, maybe not, but it certainly explains discrepancies.




    • 08-10-2018, 03:51 PM
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  7. #39
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    To refute accusation for my dreams and religious ideas being lunatic nonsense as described by chesty, here is my reply. It is an account of my dreams and important ideas related to those dreams. It is not nonsense; my dreams happen the way I relate them. Following my dream presentation are my thoughts and interpretations. Readers can disagree or not, but, nevertheless, I am exercising my religious freedom to make a statement.
    My first extraordinary dream was about Paul. He was walking on a dirt road when suddenly a cloud of bright light covered him. Inside the cloud a voice said "Come up to heaven with me." Paul walked away waving his hands in the air. He said, "first I must evangelize the world."
    A few years later I had a dream about an angel. The angel was in the air above thousands of dead soldiers on the ground. The Bible reference is Isaiah 37:36 when an angel of the Lord killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers of Sennacherib's army encamped around Jerusalem; they had planned to attack and destroy the city. The angel looked up at the Lord and said, "It is done." About the same time, I had a vision about paradise. I was in my backyard when, around me were dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals, above them was God and His angels. In response to the glorious presence of God, dinosaurs made loud trumpeting noises, and other creatures, each in its own way, made affectionate sounds. From that experience, I've concluded paradise was during the dinosaur era. I also think it was when Satan came into the world to turn God's creatures away from him. Science has found evidence for dinosaurs and about 75% of all species disappearing after a large comet or asteroid hit the earth about 65 million years ago. I've posted that story here on a thread entitled "Dinosaurs in Paradise!"

    About four years ago, I had another dream about dinosaurs. In this dream, I was shoveling garbage in a deep, filthy pit. As I shoveled, I looked around and could see dinosaur bones underground throughout the world. A voice said, "Humans have defiled my sacred grave." My interpretation is God is not pleased with humans polluting and disturbing earth. Apparently, God wanted nature to remain unmolested. That is, of course, contrary to Christian ideology about God creating the world for humans, and creating other species for humans' pleasure.

    I have also had a series of dreams about angels and Satan in heaven. I cannot recall exactly, but I think it was about five years ago when I had this dream. I was in heaven looking at angels in circle around God. Two Gods were in a bright glorious sphere. The angels were awe struck as they interacted with the two Gods. An angel would communicate an idea to one God and either it or the other God would respond. Responses by the two Gods were novel, or perhaps unexpected. Apparently, heaven is an eternal party. In the universe, there is evidence for God's duality in nature (two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, two pairs of wings, positive and negative charges, matter and anti-matter, forces of gravity, neutrons and protons, quarks and anti-quarks, etc). I believe duality in nature reflects God's character. It also explains what may have happened with stories about Jesus (God). Humans, not understanding God's duality, made up son of God stories.

    Dreams about the Bible, Michael, and Satan's Universe

    In another dream, after the fall of paradise, 65 million years later, God was in heaven when humans began settlements on earth. Apparently, after the fall of Paradise, angels kept God informed about what was happening on earth. Angels told God about a new species dominating earth. God was not pleased and decided to intervene. Subsequently, God Choose Abraham and his descendants to establish His holy authority on earth. I believe angels are God's servants, or, if you will, extensions of His will. I had a dream about the Old Testament. A voice said, "It happened but not that way." Here is my interpretation. Jewish authors, due to misinformation, may have gotten stories wrong, and some events may have been neglected or ignored. Moreover, most of the Old Testament had been written into final form during the Babylonian period several hundred years after important biblical events had occurred. It is also possible that Jewish beliefs about their relationship with the Lord interfered with accurate portrayals.

    I had a dream about the death of Jesus. On a dirt road, two Roman soldiers stood over Jesus on his knees. One soldier was beating Jesus in the face with his fists as the other soldier looked on. In the scene, there were no other people, just a dirt road. Based on this dream, I do not believe Jesus was crucified. There is no mention of the crucifixion of Jesus in gospels written immediately after the death of Jesus. In an earlier copy of the Q gospel used as a source by the four gospel authors there is no mention of the crucifixion. I believe Revelation 11 about the two witnesses is the true story about Jesus. In that story, the two witnesses are Jesus (God). It's interesting; the time period for the two witnesses is 1,260 days, which is about the same time as the ministry of Jesus. In addition, the time the two witnesses lay on the dirt road after being murdered is 31/2 days. "And they went up into heaven in a cloud." (Rev 11:12). That is what happened in the gospel resurrection. Because God is a duality, and Jesus was God, I believe gospel authors made a mistake. Rather than understanding Jesus (God) as a duality, they made him the son of God, as well as God the father.

    My next dream about Paul was about twenty years later. It has been my most detailed supernatural dream. I was walking on a dirt street in an ancient village of stone and brick houses. After a couple of blocks, I turned a corner and walked into a village square where people had gathered. I walked into a small building next to the square where a dozen or more men sat on benches. Paul, wearing a robe, held a bouquet of palm branches and flowers. As he walked round the room, he leaned over chatting with the men. Some of the men came over and gave him palm branches for his bouquet. There was something strange about Paul; he had a shiny baldhead with pieces of transplanted hair. When I awoke, I thought about his shiny baldhead with those hair transplants. It occurred to me his transplanted hairs were symbols of his false epistles. From other dreams, I've learned that Jesus was God and not the son of God. The New Testament is full of errors, including Paul's epistles.

    I've had dreams about God and angels. One dream about heaven was very brief. I saw angels around a sphere with the two Gods inside. Around the sphere, brilliant lights flashed as the two Gods interacted with the angels. In another dream, God had just created an angel. It had the appearance of a brilliant cotton ball. God tossed the angel into heaven. The meaning was clear, the angel was free to roam heaven and do whatever it wanted. After a short while, the angel returned to be close to God. I believe this is important. God gave angels freewill, they could be with him for eternity, or they could go out on their own. Evidently, Satan decided to be independent.

    I had a dream about Satan as a child. I was in heaven when I saw God holding the hand of a small husky boy with a defiant look; both were in human form wearing clothes. I don't believe angels resemble humans, but Satan, as a fledgling angel, was portrayed that way in order that I, a human, would understand. God was leading the defiant boy into heaven. I don't know the order of Satan in the creation of angels. That may be important insofar as it explains a lot about events resulting in Satan's expulsion from heaven. I keep thinking Satan may have been God's first angel, but I am not certain.

    A few years ago, I had another dream about Satan in the middle of a circle of angels. All the angels, including Satan, had fuzzy white bodies. Satan was biting their fluffy feet. One of the angels went to God and said, "He is hurting us!" I had a dream about the angel Michael dressed in a military uniform. He was sitting high up on a throne or chair in a large room with a holy light shining around him. He was wearing a light brown army uniform, the type worn by army generals. He looked supreme confident. A voice said, "This is Michael, God's general." Evidently, Michael is in charge of the other angels in God's war with Satan.

    In my dreams, angels had white fluffy bodies with the rough appearance of humans. In heaven, I believe angels' bodies resemble bright balls of cotton. My theory is they're normally spherical in form. It would make sense that they would have spherical shapes, they're in a heaven where there's no gravity, or physical laws to determine form or substance.

    I had a dream about Satan as a snake. The snake moved slowly toward me, and then it opened its mouth of razor-sharp teeth and lunged. Suddenly, something pulled it away. Later, in another dream, I was standing in heaven in front of a snake about fifteen feet tall with two strips circling its body, one was intensely white and the other was intensely black. As I stared at the snake, its head turned toward me and showed a beautiful face. I think Satan was going through a transition to reflect a shifting disposition of evil. Eventually, after causing more chaos in heaven, Satan became intensely dark. However, he may have also retained his white brilliant glow. It is possible that Satan can appear with a intensely dark appearance, or as a bright white angel. I don't know, it's just a guess.

    In my dream about the universe, Satan was in the form of a parrot's beak; he was attacking other angels. As the beak moved around heaven, it turned toward me. As it came near, God captured it with two hands. Inside the hands there was a lot of commotion as Satan tried to escape. Then, God opened His hands. On the inside of both hands were jagged pieces of black metal, they represented ugly scares on the boundary of the universe from Satan's desperate attempts to escape.

    Since then, I have done some research. Evidently, scientists have found big black holes or anomalies on the boundary of our universe. Some scientists think it is from other universes bouncing off our universe. However, there is no evidence for other universes. Scientists call it "Axis of Evil."

    Dreams about a Heavenly Structure and Israel
    Several years ago, I had a dream about a huge doom-shape structure in heaven. It had a bare bones frame so people inside could see objects outside. In a small section of the dome, it appeared as if only about half the benches were occupied, suggesting there was plenty of room for additional people. People sat alone and in pairs on benches facing outside into heaven. Above the structure, appearing as a large throbbing light was God's holy presence, perhaps larger than the structure. With each throb of God's holy light, the structure vibrated with a "loud thump."
    No one was looking up at God. Instead, they were looking around them inside the dome preoccupied or bored. My interpretation is God would allow millions, or perhaps billions, of people into heaven. However, based on the reaction of people inside the dome-shaped structure, it may not be what they desire.
    I had another dream about the Jewish Diaspora. In the dream, there was loud Jewish music in the ancient land of Israel. Then, as Jews migrated to foreign lands, the music got softer and softer as they spread throughout the world. A few years ago, I had another dream about God and His chosen people. The period was at the time of ancient Israel. A Lord's voice said, "They wouldn't obey my commandments, not one single commandment!" That seems to say a lot about what God requires. Numerous times, throughout the Old Testament, prophets admonish God's people for being stiff-nicked or refusing to obey commandments. Apparently, God doesn't like disobedient subjects.

    My last dream happened a few months ago. I was high in the air looking down at a baby; it appeared to be perfectly still, as if it were a doll. A voice said. "Pick it up and hug it." As I picked it up, I saw several black boxes and one red box around its waste. Suddenly, as I hugged the baby, I realized it was dead. I sobbed uncontrollably. I believe the dead baby represented Israel or God's chosen people. Early in their relationship with God, they fell out of favor. I think it has a lot to do with being obedient to God's commandments. This does not mean however that other religions have replaced Judaism.

    I believe nothing has changed; Jews remain God's chosen people. That may explain why Israel exists. Evidently, God kept His promise. "To your offspring I will give you this land." Genesis 12:7. Certainly, Christianity has not replaced Judaism, it is based on false theology, there is no son of God.

    Dinosaurs in Paradise!

    The following story came from a vision I had about God and angels in paradise with dinosaurs and other creatures. Science has discovered evidence for about 75% all creatures on earth destroyed by an asteroid or comet about 65 million years ago.

    I propose paradise happened before humans came onto the scene. Imagine an ancient world about 65 million years ago with earth covered in lush jungle gardens and dinosaurs and other magnificent creatures. It was a marvelous time for Godís creatures. After millions of years, they had reached the pinnacle of development; the world was now ready for paradise. Pleased with his creation, God froze time on earth. Now, the magnificent creatures would have everlasting life with God and His angels.

    The tragic event happened shortly after God and His angels were in a garden with huge dinosaurs and other creatures. In Godís presence, dinosaurs trumpeted joyfully and large-winged birds flew gracefully chirping songs of adoration. Other creatures, each in their own way, made joyful sounds praising Godís glory and holiness. Suddenly, a mysterious dark object appeared on earth. Creatures squealed in fear and scattered. For Satan, it was a victorious moment. After Satanís imprisonment in the universe, it was an opportunity to strike back at God.

    Above, dark clouds covered the sky and, below, gloomy shadows and cold air filled gardens, formerly warm from tropical climate. Fearful of the threat, huge dinosaurs stumbled in the murky light. Around them, smaller creatures scurried into garden thickets. Lightning flashed as thunder struck earth with a terrifying roar. Creatures' eternal party with God and His angels was over. They struggled in a new world, one torn by natureís fury. Volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, capricious weather and storms were now commonplace. Without Godís presence, the world had become a very dangerous place.

    Now, free to roam, Satan turned his wrath on Godís creatures. Satan was prone to cruel outbursts and sadistically treatment of the creatures. They had to make painful adjustments in a forsaken world. Satan terrorized them indulging in vicious attacks and cruel seductions. To end the horror, God made a large asteroid hit earth causing the dinosaurs and many other creatures to become extinct.

    Recently, my wife and I visited an archaeological site in East Utah with dozens of dinosaur bones on a large wall. Paleontologists found them on a mountain ridge while exploring an outcropping of prehistoric bones. Suddenly, as I looked at the ancient bones, a vision of paradise popped into my head. Covering earth was God's holy light. Paradise occurred before the demise of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures about 65 million years ago. At the time, the entire planet was paradise.

    A Dream about Time and Events: Russian Threat

    Last night (11-29-14), I had an extraordinary dream about time and events on earth. There were many time frames in a long row similar to an old filmstrip. I recall about a dozen frames. Each frame had about a half dozen names and images of nations in vertical order. Images consisted mostly of symbols related to world nations. Nations on each time frame were in hierarchy order based on their positions in relationship to world power struggles. At the top of the frames, names of powerful nations were listed. Each frame had a different configuration of nations and images related to the progression of time. I didn't have enough time to decipher all of the meanings, each time strip was unique as power struggles and world events change. In each frame, there were about a half dozen names and images of nations. My best analogy is a box of children's toys with blocks and various other playthings, except time-frame symbols corresponded to world events and nations. Much of my dream was about recent time frames for struggles between Russia and other nations with the word "Russia" in several frames. On the right side of the time strip approaching current times, the word Russia was moving to the top of the frames. It seemed to be a warning that Russia is becoming a threat to world peace. I got the impression that God knows each time-frame in detail, which includes future time-frames.

    It appeared as if each frame was frozen, nothing could change it. My impression is God cannot, or will not, change world events. I have thought about the length of time for each frame. Each frame may represent events more than time. Perhaps, each frame represented one year, or even less, as advanced technology and trade continues to accelerate the pace of international dependence and changes throughout the world. I am not certain. Most interesting for the time strip was the changing allocation of nations in world powerĖstruggles. I must admit, describing this dream has been a challenge; there were many details with powerful symbols.

    A Vision of God's Duality

    Early today, I closed my eyes while resting. For few seconds, I saw a vision of two small white colored spheres resembling pearls touching each other. I observed the objects to be the same size and color. My interpretation is the two spheres were symbols of God's duality. Both Gods are equal and stay permanently attached. It relates to a dream I had about the two Gods inside a sphere surrounded by angels. Before they created their first angel, the two Gods were perfect companions. Then, they created angels to participate in eternity with them. Since then, all angels, except Satan, have been obedient servants of the two Gods, loving and adoring them for all of eternity.

    Angels and Numbers: Comments

    I also believe there are now twelve angels in heaven, Satan was the thirteenth angel. After Satan attacked the other angels, God created the universe to imprison him. It is interesting how the number twelve plays out with Judaism (twelve tribes) and Christianity (twelve disciples). Then, in the secular world, we have twelve months in the year and two times twelve for a twenty-four-hour day. As for the number thirteen, in most cultures, it is an unlucky number.

  8. #40
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    how about THIS!! you stated it says i SAW the LAMB and......and the 144 k!! this would INDICATE the lamb is SEPARATE from the 144K!? so then the 144k cant be the lamb!? and what about the sacrifice of abraham!? his SON!! was his son GULITY!? or an INNOCENT LAMB!?
    Last edited by lexx; 10-03-2018 at 12:31 AM.
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    how about THIS!! you stated it says i SAW the LAMB and......and the 144 k!! this would INDICATE the lamb is SEPARATE from the 144K!? so then the 144k cant be the lamb!? and what about the sacrifice of abraham!? his SON!! was hs son GULITY!? or an INNOCENT LAMB!?
    Here is the verse. "Then I looked, and there before me was the lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his father's name written on their foreheads." (Rev. 14:1). I interpret it to mean Jesus (God in the form of a man) had been sacrificed, and his name, which is the Jewish God, was on the foreheads of his chosen people. I understand the confusion. You may not accept my interpretation, but it seems to fit for other lamb references in Revelation.

    I know it is a stretch, but I think Jesus, being Jewish, is to be included with "sacrificial lambs." Assuming Satan is hostile toward God, he would also be hostile toward Jews, God's chosen people.

    I admit Revelation is a formidable puzzle. You make a good point, I may be wrong. The problem with Revelation is there are many symbols and verses subject to interpretation. Kind of like abstract art.
    Last edited by Cnance; 10-02-2018 at 01:16 PM.

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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    If the "lamb of God" had not been misinterpreted to mean Jesus the son of God, it is likely Revelation would have become part of a Jewish holy book. The entire meaning of Revelation changes when one conceives the lamb of God to be God’s chosen people. Furthermore, battles mentioned in Revelation are about Jews being persecuted, and Israel is the victim of the second beast of Revelation (Islam).

    Most people know of the danger Jews face with Islamic nations threatening to destroy Israel. Israel has already fought three major wars with Arab nations to defend itself. There may be, however, one final and devastating war to determine the fate of God‚Äôs chosen people. ‚ÄúThey will wage war against the Lamb, but the lamb will trump over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings -- and with him will be his called, chosen, and faithful followers.‚ÄĚ Rev. 17:14.

  11. #43
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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    you gonna make a CAREER outa spouting haf baked THEORIES!! i like the 1 where you claim ......i might be a JOO!! explains alot about your haf baked opinions!!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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    Re: Lamb of God in Revelation isnít Jesus!

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    you gonna make a CAREER outa spouting haf baked THEORIES!! i like the 1 where you claim ......i might be a JOO!! explains alot about your haf baked opinions!!
    I post what I please! If I were a Jew, which I am not, would you propose I be sanctioned?

    Are you a Satanist?
    Last edited by Cnance; 10-20-2018 at 06:58 PM.

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