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  1. #17
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    I think of it differently. Here on earth, every father is also a son. And that same father might also be a fireman or a business consultant.

    I think of it as God wearing different hats.
    i wear hats..SHOW us the HATS!?
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  2. #18
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i wear hats..SHOW us the HATS!?:
    Lexx's hat:

    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  3. #19
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    SHOWING us YOUR HAT and implying i wear it too is LAME!! but if you throw in a six pack i might go for it!!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  4. #20
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    If you do scholarly research, the kind critics can't refute, what do you find? Here is an excellent reference for those who want to do respectable research. It is The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. The book summarizing scholarly findings, which verify the existing of a prior gospel, one used by NT authors to write their gospels. In short, scholars are in agreement that NT authors used prior gospels for their gospels.Then, if you do some more research you'll find that all those "NT gospel stories" about the son of God are not found in prior gospels. Those prior gospels, in particular The Gospel of Thomas, have Jesus sayings. What is interesting about those sayings is we find Jesus making statements about the "kingdom of God." If Jesus was God, wouldn't He talk about heaven? If you carefully follow Mack's analysis of the NT gospels what you find is Jesus movement leaders changing the Jesus narrative. Thirty to Forty years after Jesus was murdered, they decided Jesus was the son of God. Prior to that time, they defined Jesus as a sage, or wise man. Then, about the same time, they decided Jesus was crucified. Research it! You find no historical documents verifying the crucifixion of Jesus. My theory is Jesus movement leaders needed a really good martyrdom story to promote a new religion.

    God, a duality, was Jesus. There is no son of God.

  5. #21
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    lexx talking about Trump:

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    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  6. #22
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    joe in hawaii enjoying the sunshine and NO SNOW while staying safe from those cosmic rays!!

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  7. #23
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    In relationship to obedience there is the issue of perfection. Assuming God is perfectly holy, perfectly omnipotent, or all powerful, and both of the two Gods are equal with respect to these attributes, then we have the essence of perfection. So, when Satan challenged God, he opposed two perfect Gods by pretending to be perfect. How could a creature of God equal God or be perfect? In order for Satan to be perfect, he would have to be equal to the two Gods. It appears most of what theologians have stated about God is incorrect inasmuch as they don't recognize God as a duality. Furthermore, by declaring the Trinity to be God, they have multiplied their error. How can there be a Trinity when there is no son of God? I suppose we could, because of God's duality, declare God to be Binary. Oh, no, that sounds tacky.

    Any creature who challenges the two Gods in a sphere must be superior to them in order to take over heaven. Otherwise, on what basis can one execute a rebellion? How do you destroy perfection to take over the Kingdom of Heaven? How would you maintain the vastness of heaven if you are a creature of its creator? Then, there are the angels around the two Gods, never leaving their presence. How do you gain the attention of the angels when you are not perfect or have no holiness or power equal to the two Gods?

  8. #24
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    these are all YOUR talk to myself ASSUMPTIONS based on DREAMS!! look out the window the white ambulance is here!!
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  9. #25
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    I have some thoughts about obedience and salvation. In order to clear up a lot of intellectual baggage about the concept, I have assumed a more realistic idea about the human condition. For one, humans are not holy, they are just like other species except they have symbolic communication skills, which has resulting in them being the dominant species. I don't find a guarantee of salvation in the OT, it is found in the NT. In the OT, God guaranteed his chosen people land (Israel). Salvation is found in the NT verses about Jesus. However, assuming there is no son of God, which I know from my dreams, how do we get to salvation? Most religions base their appeal on salvation. If there is no salvation, why believe? Perhaps, it is because humans are curious and they want to know. Death is so final. There must be an alternative.
    Without God's intervention in human affairs we might not have such strong beliefs. Reading the Bible about angels in heaven makes one think, hey, why not me? Humans want to be immortal. But is it possible? Aren't we just an advance species, one with cognitive skills enabling us to consider other life styles? Knowing about heaven from biblical stories, salvation appears to be possible. But what if it's not a possible? My dreams have told we are just another species, the remnants of the fall of paradise. If bears could think would they be concerned about going to heaven to be with God?

    Godís promise for salvation is in Revelation, it is about God delivering a holy city to earth for His people. God would be in the holy city, and all those souls would serve God as obedient servants, thereby loving and worshiping Him. In God's holy city in Rev. 21, the city has "twelve gates." The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. . . . and the ďtwelfth amethyst." (Rev. 21:20). Amethyst is the final of ďtwelve stones.Ē An angel measured it. ďHe measured the city with a rod and found it to be ď12,000Ē stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.Ē (Rev. 21:16).

    "And the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon to give light to it, for the splendor and radiance (glory) of God illuminate it, and the Lamb is its lamp." (Rev. 21:23).

    Heaven of old would become heaven of new. Godís angels would be inside the holy city. ďIt had a massive and high wall with twelve (large) gates, and at the gates (there were stationed) twelve angels, and (on the gates) the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were written:" (Rev. 21:12)

  10. #26
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    well that's more compact QUICKIE that's an easier read!! man's not special by design intention he just LUCKED out in the evolutionary game!? that sounds like SCIENCE at work again!? could be VERY APPEALING to some!! and then you have plain copies of scriptural stories to add to the proposal!? sounds like a good shot at picking up FOLLOWERS jim!! oops i mean cnance!!
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  11. #27
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    It is possible that God again attempted to created paradise on earth, as Revelation suggests, when He intervened in human affairs. I think the key for understanding why the relationship between God and humans has floundered is "obedience." As I stated in another posting, there is only one possibility for a relationship with God. This point of view requires a special understanding about God. In heaven where God resides there are no competing gods, arguments about this or that, or power struggles for golden thrones, crowns or other treasures. Satan disturbed heaven when he tried to become equal to God. We know what happened to Satan. Dissent or disruption is not allowed in heaven, and for good reason. God created angels for his pleasure, not for angels to have separate kingships or dominions. In heaven, angels are captivated by God's holiness. It is like the best act in town, no one wants to miss a single event. In short, if a creature rejects the two Gods in a sphere, there is no possibility of mortal existence. It is either worship God or cease to exist.

  12. #28
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    i guess we all like an worship god then albeit each in our own way!? otherwise POOF!? i think satan HELPED in the creation and that's why he ended up with it!! but did i say HELPED!? maybe i meant COMMANDED!? after all why would god CREATE or NEED anything!? speaking logically of course!!
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  13. #29
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i guess we all like an worship god then albeit each in our own way!? otherwise POOF!? i think satan HELPED in the creation and that's why he ended up with it!! but did i say HELPED!? maybe i meant COMMANDED!? after all why would god CREATE or NEED anything!? speaking logically of course!!
    If you could read you would know the answer, it is on my other thread, the one about my dreams. Oh, I forgot you hate my dream thread. Why do I bother? God haters have their own answers, and most of those answers are really stupid. Neither Satan nor humans can create anything, not even an atom. Oh, I know, we have chemistry, but that is not creating something from nothing, only God can do that. Satan thought he could be God, but it didn't work out. All he could do is attack and hurt the other angels. Go ahead, work on your creation kit. Let us know if you can create something from nothing. ha. ha.

  14. #30
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    If you could read you would know the answer, it is on my other thread, the one about my dreams. Oh, I forgot you hate my dream thread. Why do I bother? God haters have their own answers, and most of those answers are really stupid. Neither Satan nor humans can create anything, not even an atom. Oh, I know, we have chemistry, but that is not creating something from nothing, only God can do that. Satan thought he could be God, but it didn't work out. All he could do is attack and hurt the other angels. Go ahead, work on your creation kit. Let us know if you can create something from nothing. ha. ha.
    you cant READ!! satan USED god to make the universe was my theory!! we can all have theories based on logic cant we!? i keep forgetting YOUR SPECIAL!! remember god has SHOWN in scripture he gives the devil what he wants!? and we know it STARTED that way before the devil switched sides you might say!?
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  15. #31
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    you cant READ!! satan USED god to make the universe was my theory!! we can all have theories based on logic cant we!? i keep forgetting YOUR SPECIAL!! remember god has SHOWN in scripture he gives the devil what he wants!? and we know it STARTED that way before the devil switched sides you might say!?
    Everyone is entitled to their theory. My theory is you are wrong. As for the Bible, I had a dream which said, "it happened, but not that way." which means I am entitled to my interpretation. You will, of course, disagree. Satan had nothing to do with the creation of the universe except to cause God to create it. It was God's way of getting rid of Satan, who was attacking and hurting the other angels. Satan is an attack and destroy machine. He especially likes to attack anyone who loves or adores God. It is an ongoing war, it will not cease until the universe is gone. The way I see it, Satan gradually turned dark and evil in heaven. In the universe, Satan has many opportunities to disrupt things, just like what happens on earth with wars, terrorists attacks, and other calamities. Satan cannot create, he disrupts, distorts, causes division, and destroys.

    Have a nice day God hater.

  16. #32
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    any logical peaceful person who reads the bible would DISLIKE/HATE/CHALLENGE god for he seems ILLOGICAl and UNPEACEFUL!!at least in the OLD TESTAMENT!! and many/most DO!! very POOR marketing strategy!!
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