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  1. #161
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    my point being TODAY is god still telling his people to KILL OTHERS that oppose them!? and WHAT was LUCIFER used for (necessary) before his fall!? why is it NECESSARY for god to USE angels to do his WILL/WORK?! i mean do you think god created angels JUST so he would feel ADORED!?
    Those are civil questions. Here are my opinions!

    As for the pagan god issue, When God first began interfering in human affairs, there were only pagan gods. I believe Satan had a lot to do with establishing them. God attempted to establish Himself as the one true God. So, pagan gods had to be destroyed. As for angels as messengers, why not? It is the way God functions, he uses angels to do his work. Angels carry out God's will because they are obedient.

    As for the adore question. I think God created angels to be companions and enjoy His holiness. To think otherwise, is to propose creatures of God are equal or superior to him. If not with God, how could you do what God can do? It is the most important question about God's creation. So, God creates a being, and then the being decides to be like its creator. Do you see where this is going? Why would God create a creature in order to be in competition? Creatures can create nothing! The big issue with creatures, mostly human, is they want to be like God, or superior to him.

    Here is another way of looking at it. So, God creates angels. What do they do with their time? Do they play games, do they play king of the mountain. ha ha. And, how long would it be until they would be bored or run out of things to do? Well, the two Gods are perfect expressions of holiness. A few seconds seeing God's holy light spouting over your head is worth all your effort to duplicate it. No creature of God can create holy sparks, they are given to creatures by God. So, it is a worthless effort to duplicate what God does. My dream about people in the sphere in heaven being bored is a good example. There are no alternatives? If you reject God, you cease to exist.
    Last edited by Cnance; 08-16-2018 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #162
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    my point being TODAY is god still telling his people to KILL OTHERS that oppose them!? and WHAT was LUCIFER used for (necessary) before his fall!? why is it NECESSARY for god to USE angels to do his WILL/WORK?! i mean do you think god created angels JUST so he would feel ADORED!?
    You afraid to debate with me fellow sewer rat?

  3. #163
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    Those are civil questions. Here are my opinions!

    As for the pagan god issue, When God first began interfering in human affairs, there were only pagan gods. I believe Satan had a lot to do with establishing them. God attempted to establish Himself as the one true God. So, pagan gods had to be destroyed. As for angels as messengers, why not? It is the way God functions, he uses angels to do his work. Angels carry out God's will because they are obedient.

    As for the adore question. I think God created angels to be companions and enjoy His holiness. To think otherwise, is to propose creatures of God are equal or superior to him. If not with God, how could you do what God can do? It is the most important question about God's creation. So, God creates a being, and then the being decides to be like its creator. Do you see where this is going? Why would God create a creature in order to be in competition? Creatures can create nothing! The big issue with creatures, mostly human, is they want to be like God, or superior to him.

    Here is another way of looking at it. So, God creates angels. What do they do with their time? Do they play games, do they play king of the mountain. ha ha. And, how long would it be until they would be bored or run out of things to do? Well, the two Gods are perfect expressions of holiness. A few seconds seeing God's holy light spouting over your head is worth all your effort to duplicate it. No creature of God can create holy sparks, they are given to creatures by God. So, it is a worthless effort to duplicate what God does. My dream about people in the sphere in heaven being bored is a good example. There are no alternatives? If you reject God, you cease to exist.
    How pleasant of you Nance. I see I've put some manners on you.

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  4. #164
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    DESTROY CHESTY THE SNAKE!

  5. #165
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Based on religious threads I've posted on the forum, I believe obedience is the most important for salvation. Also, it appeals to logic and reason. Assuming God created angels to be his heavenly companions, I propose the following. For now, we won't consider the universe or humans. Knowing Satan rebelled against God, what did God prefer? One of my most important dreams was about God's chosen people in ancient times, it was about obedience. A voice said, "they didn't obey my commandments, not one single commandment." It needs to be repeated. The consequence of disobeying God is more than significant, it is imperative. Knowing Satan attacked the other angels in a worship circle, and knowing Satan was expelled from heaven after angels complained about Satan's attacks, we understand God's problem.

    In order to establish a better understanding of God's dilemma, one might imagine heaven with competing deities. However, to have a good understanding of heaven, one should know about the duality of God. There are two Gods inside a holy sphere. Before the two Gods created angels, they were their own companions. Why would God tolerate rebellious creatures? One can propose reasons for why, but in every case, it results in the same consequence. Heaven would become a battle ground or a field of conflict whereby gods would compete for attention and control. Why would God tolerate such a heaven? The argument comes back to why God created angels. Was it to create competitive kingdoms? Was it to find out what happens in a conflicting world or place? Obviously, there is no good, or rational, argument for God creating angels to become gods or conflicting creatures. God created angels to participate in His holiness, beauty, and omnipotence. There is another important part to the puzzle for why God created creatures. It was for both Gods, not just one God. God is a duality, and as such, the two Gods created angels in order to participate in eternal exchanges between them. One can imagine how it might be. One of the Gods pops up in the holy sphere and communicates an idea to one of the surrounding angels. Angels respond, and then the other God pops up with another idea or exchange. So, it goes, one loving exchange after another with no intermission or diversionary activities. Assuming the two Gods are beyond understanding for beauty and holiness, exchanges continue forever. Angels are enchanted and continue exchanges with the two Gods, each exchange unique in its own way. It is what the two Gods intended when they created angels.

    Then, when the two Gods attempted to intervene in human affairs, it was to continue heaven, but with humans as part of their holy circle. There would never be, nor can there be, a heaven apart from God. It is either being in the presence of God in the holy circle, or ceasing to exist. I had a dream about the possibility for humans. People where in a giant dome in heaven with God nearby continuing holy exchanges. In my dream, posted on my dream thread, people were bored or uninterested in God nearby, with loud thumping sounds, displaying holiness as His holy light penetrated the dome. I don't believe stories about people in heaven doing this or that with relatives. They may be in heaven with relatives, but they're all in the same boat, or dome, partaking of the two Gods in a holy sphere. I understand my story doesn't fit with any contemporary religious community. Polytheism is the most serious problem for humankind.

    Even assuming the son of God is in heaven, how would it be? Would people be worshiping or seeking counsel with the son of God? If so, for what purpose, and for how long? No, I don't think it is possible, and, unlikely, because there is no son of God. Humans have a difficult time without a deity resembling themselves. After Jesus (God) was murdered by Roman soldiers, Christian leaders created the son of God as an explanation. Christianity is therefore a pagan religion. As far as I know, Judaism is the only religion which continues to worship the OT Lord, the true God of the universe.
    Last edited by Cnance; 09-12-2018 at 06:23 AM.

  6. #166
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Because humans demand conditions, or refuse to accept God without requirements, there is no salvation. However, it will never be known until after death. Since humans don't communicate after death with the living, it will never be known.
    Last edited by Cnance; 09-12-2018 at 01:32 PM.

  7. #167
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    Re: Obedience: Godís Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Humans have freewill and, unlike God, they have no prior knowledge of outcomes. I don't believe God favors one human over another because of their religion. It depends on God's morality, which may or may not agree with human morality. For mortal creatures, physical laws influence freewill choices along the arrow of time, and obedience to God's morality is most important for God's approval. It doesn't make any difference if we apply theological or philosophical frameworks, humans cannot escape the consequences of their actions. For angels in heaven, interactions with God constitutes a record of divine accord.

    For human societies, evidence for disobedience of civilized laws may be found with criminal records, they clearly show the degree to which people violate laws.Then, we have statistical evidence of group behavior in various areas of activity; it is a record of how individuals deviate from group norms. The evidence is clear in all groups, there is deviant behavior. Oh, yes, there are groups which appear to have lower rates of deviance, such as military units. However, it is useful to study how those groups come into conformity with established norms. It’s a consequence of boot camp training, or what trainees learn in military academies or schools. However, even for strongly conforming groups, we find deviant behavior.

    In short, there is a lot of evidence for disobedience indicating the degree of deviant behavior found in all human societies. Locate the group, discern norms of the group, and you’ll find deviant behavior.

    My understanding of obedience in heaven is related entirely too how God’s creatures regard God. The test of obedience to God would be when a creature of God rejects God, and the test would be when the creature is in the presence ofGod, or part of God’s holy circle. I propose God created angels in order to participate in the “great interaction” between the two Gods. People might say, well, I suppose God is an egomaniac, He wants everything to be about Him. Well, if it weren’t about him, what would it be about? What creature of God could equal God? Would other creatures of God want to be with or worship another creature? If so, what would that creature offer? These are precisely the questions one should ask in order to understand what “obedience to God” means. Satan set himself apart from God and, when the angels surrounded him, he attackand hurt them. So, we have a valuable test case for what it means to disobey God. When God communicated with his chosen people on earth He applied the same heavenly rules, which meant they had to obey His commandments. Otherwise, they would be obeying their own rules or rules of another creature. In conclusion, in order to have a relationship with God, you must not question his holy word.
    Last edited by Cnance; 09-12-2018 at 11:02 PM.

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