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  1. #1
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    Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    I believe obedience is the most important subject for salvation. Obedience is a difficult concept for humans. In almost all cases, people will redefine or amend God’s commandments. Throughout the Old Testament obedience to God is a central theme. I had a dream about obeying God. It was about OT times. A voice said, “They didn’t obey my commandments, not one single commandment!”

    We have legends, myths and modern day stories of the hereafter, but no one really knows. There seems to be no alternative but God's world. Let us suppose you die and go to heaven. What would you want? First, you see the two Gods in a sphere and are amazed at the phenomena of their holy beauty and the way they interact with angels around them. Then you look around at angels. What are they doing? They are mesmerized by the two Gods. Flashes of bright light shoot from their holy bodies. Would you stay or would you wonder around heaven looking for other ways to occupy yourself? What would you do without God? That is the key question for salvation. If you reject God, there is no alternative, you cease to exist. I think the reason for there may be no humans in heaven is because God knows they don’t want to be with Him. Humans are independent; they seek lives apart from God.

    I don’t believe there are intermediate stages in heaven. You are either in the presence of God, or you have no existence. If one thinks through the whole idea of obedience, he or she may wonder about the consequences of disobeying God. Whose world do we want to live in? The problem is God's world is the only possibility. Humans are not spiritual beings. Just like other species, they live die and turn to dust. God created angels as eternal companions. Humans are collateral damage from the fall of paradise, and, subsequently, they suffer the same fate as other species. God attempted to bring about His holy order on earth (Bible), but it has failed. However, based on Revelation 21 in which God promises humans a Holy City, there may be another chance. However, without “obedience,” it will not happen.
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-12-2018 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    yah that's got some kinda truths in it but it's pretty mixed up!! does satan exist!? is he without god!? why DONT people WANT to be with god!? does god WANT everybody to be in HEAVEN!? is the kingdom of god HEAVEN without earth or does it include earthly life!? what if EVERYONE is going to heaven but only SUFFER NOW becuz of satan!? you said god killed the dinosaurs becuz they were suffering under satan WHY has he NOT killed man!? but WAIT bible says he DID!! more than ONCE!? why does the RAINBOW save our BUTTS NOW!?
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  3. #3
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    I had a dream about people in heaven which directly relates to the fate of humankind.

    My dream was about a large sphere shaped structure in heaven. It had a bare bones frame with no covering; inside were many rows of benches so people could sit and see outside. I could see a small section of the dome. About half the benches were occupied, suggesting there was plenty of room for more people. People sat alone and in pairs on benches. There appeared to be many unoccupied benches. Above the structure was a large throbbing light, it was God’s holy presence. I don’t know for sure, but It may have been larger than the sphere. With each throb of God's holy light, there was a loud thump inside the sphere. No one was looking up at God. Instead, they looked around inside the dome preoccupied or bored. My interpretation is God would allow millions, or perhaps billions, of people into heaven. However, based on the reaction of people inside the dome-shaped structure, it may not be what people want or desire.

  4. #4
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    throbbing light!! sounds like a CHEAP BROTHEL!? was the music SEXY!?
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  5. #5
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Obedience is a difficult concept for humans. In almost all cases, people will redefine or amend God's commandments. I believe this is the most important topic for salvation. Throughout the Old Testament obedience to God is a central theme.

  6. #6
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    Obedience is a difficult concept for humans. In almost all cases, people will redefine or amend God's commandments. I believe this is the most important topic for salvation. Throughout the Old Testament obedience to God is a central theme.
    your WRONG it's an EASY CONCEPT!! in fact people OBEY every day!! they do exactly as they're TOLD or if they have more freedom of will as they CHOOSE!! but generally this choosing is within a framework set up by outside forces!? which develop into habits!? there are certain choice available within those habits!?
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  7. #7
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    For human societies, evidence for disobedience of civilized laws may be found with criminal records, they clearly show the degree to which people violate laws. Then, we have statistical evidence of group behavior in various areas of activity; it is a record of how individuals deviate from group norms. The evidence is clear in all groups, there is deviant behavior. Oh, yes, there are groups which appear to have lower rates of deviance, such as military units. However, it is useful to study how those groups come into conformity to established norms. It’s a consequence of boot camp training, or what trainees learn in military academies or schools. However, even for strongly conforming groups, we find deviant behavior.

    In short, there is a lot of evidence for disobedience indicating the degree of deviant behavior found in all human societies. Locate the group, discern norms of the group, and you’ll find deviant behavior.

    My understanding of obedience in heaven is related entirely too how God’s creatures regard God. The test of obedience to God would be when a creature of God rejects God. Specifically, the test would be when the creature is in the presence of God, or part of God’s holy circle. I propose God created angels in order to participate in the “great interaction” between the two Gods. People might say, well, I suppose God is an egomaniac, He wants everything to be about Him. Well, if it weren’t about him, what would it be about? What creature of God could equal God? Would other creatures of God want to be with or worship another creature? If so, what would that creature offer? These are precisely the questions one should ask in order to understand what “obedience to God” means. Satan set himself apart from God and, when the other angels surrounded him, he attacked and hurt them. So, we have a valuable test case for what it means to disobey God. When God communicated with his chosen people on earth He applied the same heavenly rules, which meant they had to obey His commandments. Otherwise, they would be obeying their own rules or rules of another creature. In conclusion, in order to have a relationship with God, you must obey His commandments!
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-14-2018 at 06:21 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    well the story goes ONLY the CHRIST obeyed god perfectly and so made PATH for others to TAKE without all THE trying and failing!? if you know the christ and are not ashamed then you got a ticket to heaven!? i like the oriental phrase......SAVING FACE!!
    Last edited by lexx; 02-14-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    If you do scholarly research, the kind critics can't refute, what do you find? Here is an excellent reference for those who want to do respectable research. It is The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. The book summarizing scholarly findings, which verify the existing of a prior gospel, one used by NT authors to write their gospels. In short, scholars are in agreement that NT authors used prior gospels for their gospels.Then, if you do some more research you'll find that all those "NT gospel stories" about the son of God are not found in prior gospels. Those prior gospels, in particular The Gospel of Thomas, have Jesus sayings. What is interesting about those sayings is we find Jesus making statements about the "kingdom of God." If Jesus was God, wouldn't He talk about heaven? If you carefully follow Mack's analysis of the NT gospels what you find is Jesus movement leaders changing the Jesus narrative. Thirty to Forty years after Jesus was murdered, they decided Jesus was the son of God. Prior to that time, they defined Jesus as a sage, or wise man. Then, about the same time, they decided Jesus was crucified. Research it! You find no historical documents verifying the crucifixion of Jesus. My theory is Jesus movement leaders needed a really good martyrdom story to promote a new religion.

    God, a duality, was Jesus. There is no son of God.
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-14-2018 at 07:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    doesn't explain how people get BORN AGAIN!! without all that STUDY and TRYING!? you want to deny the christ that's your problem!! your THEORY is FULL of HOLES anyway and all becuz of some dreams!? hopefully MOST of the people that READ this are NOT THAT GULLIBLE!?
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  11. #11
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    doesn't explain how people get BORN AGAIN!! without all that STUDY and TRYING!? you want to deny the christ that's your problem!! your THEORY is FULL of HOLES anyway and all becuz of some dreams!? hopefully MOST of the people that READ this are NOT THAT GULLIBLE!?
    How is this for being gullible? God, an "eternal" being, has a son, who had a beginning. Then, His son is murdered and all those who believe in him are saved, including murders, rapist, mass murders, Hitler, etc. All the bad people are saved for believing an incredible fairy tale. How about all those animals. Oh, they must die, they aren't human. Besides, they have low intelligence. Only smart animals go to heaven.

    Oh, yes, we have the trinity, accept it don't work. It had to be made up by men who don't understand the definition of "eternity." If Jesus had a beginning, then how can the Trinity be eternal?
    It keeps going back to the same nonsense. Oh, I got it! There is no eternity! God was born just like the rest of us. What is God's birth date?

    How about the Holy Spirit? So, one day God decides to divide himself up. He doesn't need so much holiness, so he spreads it around. Now, preachers and priests can say this or that, and everyone better believe them because if you don't you have offended God!!!! Oh, yes, God is spread around everywhere, in all places where clerics, or good people go. Don't worry about anything, the Holy Spirit will protect you. It is kind of like a magic marker, just point it and wow wee, a miraculous transformation occurs. I want one of those, who sells it? Does it come in a bottle, or do you have to have a special prescription?
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-15-2018 at 11:16 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Maybe there are examples of obedience to God in prior gospels, they would be most original because they had not been edited to conform to a new church platform. What if, as suggested by those prior gospels, Jesus (God) issued proclamations related to His "Kingdom of God," and His followers or anyone in the crowd questioned what He said, or amended it? I suppose one might say, it is democracy, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. But what if God objected because He had proclaimed His word, His authority, and His eternal truth. Well, going back to democratic principles, why doesn't God just change His mind? Heaven could use a new decorative design. Maybe the angels are siting to close together. Maybe the two Gods spend to much time interacting with one another, they should pay more attention to the angels. Maybe one angel is not getting enough attention. Maybe God should allow the angels to do some creative or abstract art, the walls of heaven need redesigning. Oh, well, maybe it will always be like that. "Leave it the way it is!" says God. "Oh, no, sounds pretty autocratic," says a free spirited angel. I got it, we need a convention of philosophers and other free thinkers to decide the debate. Would God accept amendments to His heavenly kingdom?
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-15-2018 at 12:22 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    How is this for being gullible? God, an "eternal" being, has a son, who had a beginning. Then, His son is murdered and all those who believe in him are saved, including murders, rapist, mass murders, Hitler, etc. All the bad people are saved for believing an incredible fairy tale. How about all those animals. Oh, they must die, they aren't human. Besides, they have low intelligence. Only smart animals go to heaven.

    Oh, yes, we have the trinity, accept it don't work. It had to be made up by men who don't understand the definition of "eternity." If Jesus had a beginning, then how can the Trinity be eternal?
    It keeps going back to the same nonsense. Oh, I got it! There is no eternity! God was born just like the rest of us. What is God's birth date?

    How about the Holy Spirit? So, one day God decides to divide himself up. He doesn't need so much holiness, so he spreads it around. Now, preachers and priests can say this or that, and everyone better believe them because if you don't you have offended God!!!! Oh, yes, God is spread around everywhere, in all places where clerics, or good people go. Don't worry about anything, the Holy Spirit will protect you. It is kind of like a magic marker, just point it and wow wee, a miraculous transformation occurs. I want one of those, who sells it? Does it come in a bottle, or do you have to have a special prescription?
    everyone had a START except god (theoretically) and yes the prescription is you BELIEVE!! and yes it's kinda like MAGIC!? you must not GET OUT MUCH!? and tRUMP news is nOT the only tv channel!!
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  14. #14
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    Oh, yes, we have the trinity, accept it don't work. It had to be made up by men who don't understand the definition of "eternity." If Jesus had a beginning, then how can the Trinity be eternal?
    It keeps going back to the same nonsense. Oh, I got it! There is no eternity! God was born just like the rest of us. What is God's birth date?

    How about the Holy Spirit? So, one day God decides to divide himself up. He doesn't need so much holiness, so he spreads it around. Now, preachers and priests can say this or that, and everyone better believe them because if you don't you have offended God!!!! Oh, yes, God is spread around everywhere, in all places where clerics, or good people go. Don't worry about anything, the Holy Spirit will protect you. It is kind of like a magic marker, just point it and wow wee, a miraculous transformation occurs. I want one of those, who sells it? Does it come in a bottle, or do you have to have a special prescription?
    I think of it differently. Here on earth, every father is also a son. And that same father might also be a fireman or a business consultant.

    I think of it as God wearing different hats.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  15. #15
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    I think of it differently. Here on earth, every father is also a son. And that same father might also be a fireman or a business consultant.

    I think of it as God wearing different hats.
    I suppose you can look at it that way. I take the position that there is no son of God. It is not logical for the assumption of an eternal God. Two Gods in one explains much about the NT gospels. Jesus spoke of himself as both son and father, or, perhaps, he just spoke of himself as two entities, but, not understanding, his followers interpreted it as father and son.

  16. #16
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    Re: Obedience: God’s Prerequisite for Salvation.

    In relationship to obedience there is the issue of perfection. Assuming God is perfectly holy, perfectly omnipotent, or all powerful, and both of the two Gods are equal with respect to these attributes, then we have the essence of perfection. So, when Satan challenged God, he opposed two perfect Gods by pretending to be perfect. How could a creature of God equal God or be perfect? In order for Satan to be perfect, he would have to be equal to the two Gods. It appears most of what theologians have stated about God is incorrect inasmuch as they don't recognize God as a duality. Furthermore, by declaring the Trinity to be God, they have multiplied their error. How can there be a Trinity when there is no son of God? I suppose we could, because of God's duality, declare God to be Binary. Oh, no, that sounds tacky.

    Any creature who challenges the two Gods in a sphere must be superior to them in order to take over heaven. Otherwise, on what basis can one execute a rebellion? How do you destroy perfection to take over the Kingdom of Heaven? How would you maintain the vastness of heaven if you are a creature of its creator? Then, there are the angels around the two Gods, never leaving their presence. How do you gain the attention of the angels when you are not perfect or have no holiness or power equal to the two Gods?
    Last edited by Cnance; 02-15-2018 at 10:56 PM.

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