1. #465
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    the RELGION reference ws an ANALOGY!? and maybe you should CHANGE dirty to GREEDY!?
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  2. #466
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    the RELGION reference ws an ANALOGY!? and maybe you should CHANGE dirty to GREEDY!?
    Now, it's your turn. Propose an argument for Communism.

  3. #467
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    there is no ARGUMENT to be made either you UNDERSTAND it's precepts and find them SOUL FREEING or you DONT!!
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  4. #468
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    there is no ARGUMENT to be made either you UNDERSTAND it's precepts and find them SOUL FREEING or you DONT!!
    Explain your comment. What do you understand?
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-28-2018 at 07:37 PM.

  5. #469
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    If you examine Marx's proposal, you will conclude it is ludicrous. I am continually amazed at how much his principles are inoperative, and dysfunctional. It is so easy to critique Marx if you stay on the ground where real people live. It is one of the most serious problems for high education. More and more students are being brainwashed with Marxism. Well, if you criticize Marx you may be told you don't understand him. Well, go ahead understand him! Read what he wrote! If you do, and if you understand human nature, you will conclude MARX GOT IT WRONG! Not only are his ideas unrealistic, they conjure up an utopian world.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-29-2018 at 01:18 PM.

  6. #470
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    How do you eliminate private property? How do you eliminate a capitalist government without creating chaos or "criminality gone amok." How do you reduce social class differences to a common denominator for a equalitarian society? How do you eliminate all rights of inheritance? How do you share land for the common good? How do you divide up property without violating individual rights? Is everyone really equal? Are talented individuals equal to less gifted individuals? How about the high school dropout, the psychotic murderer, the town bully, and the laziest person in town? Are they all equal to the town doctor, mortician, musician, or city engineer? Who gets the best land? We know of course, there is no such thing as equality for the distribution of land and resources. You see where this is going? Are we all equal? Will Marxian beliefs make us equal? In order to distribute societal resources, we must have a plan, or a qualification list. Again, Marx didn't take into consideration "competence"of individuals. My favorite example for the ridiculousness of Marxism is building a bridge. How do you build a bridge which won't fall apart with the first heavy truck? How about all those specialized areas such as architecture, engineering, skilled labor, etc.? Don't those functions require an education, which requires stratification of education, abilities, and training? How do you achieve those functions in an "associated" society? How does an industrial society work if you eliminate ownership and management? How do you eliminate distinctions between town and country? How does it work without the allocation of labor based on "competencies" or abilities? How can asociety function without social classes? How can a society function without economic rewards? How can a society function without incentives for outstanding contributions?
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-28-2018 at 11:53 PM.

  7. #471
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    If you examine Marx's proposal, you will conclude it is ludicrous. I am continually amazed at how much his principles are inoperative, and dysfunctional. Again, I believe I am the only person on the planet who has proposed such a critique. Why? It is so easy to critique Marx if you stay on the ground where real people live. It is one of the most serious problems for high education. More and more students are being brainwashed with Marxism. Well, if you criticize Marx you may be told you don't understand him. Well, go ahead understand him! Read what he wrote! If you do, and if you understand human nature, you will conclude MARX GOT IT WRONG! Not only are his ideas unrealistic, they conjure up a fairly land or utopian world.
    yah your a REAL DON QUIXOTE!! it's marxism/communism/socialism AND christianity you have to SLAY!! that's a LOT of WORK must take up ALL your TIME!? and i agree your an ONLY ONE!! poor me, SO SMART!? smarter than all the scholars previous and present!? did you get that SELF AGGRANDIZEMENT tic from tRUMP!?
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  8. #472
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    yah your a REAL DON QUIXOTE!! it's marxism/communism/socialism AND christianity you have to SLAY!! that's a LOT of WORK must take up ALL your TIME!? and i agree your an ONLY ONE!! poor me, SO SMART!? smarter than all the scholars previous and present!? did you get that SELF AGGRANDIZEMENT tic from tRUMP!?
    Oh, oh, I am in trouble now. Lexx put me in my place.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-28-2018 at 11:56 PM.

  9. #473
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Marxism has been around long enough for us to know if it works or not. Where is an example of a successful Communist (Marxian) nation, one where people have amble freedom, or opportunities to pursue work interests without government control or interference? People must be allowed to develop competence-based needs. As I have stated, an important reason why Communism doesn't work is because it forces people to conform to stringent government rules and regulations; therefore, preventing them from having the freedom to develop self-interests for healthy dispositions.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-29-2018 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #474
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    self interest leads to healthy dispositions!? did al capone have a healthy disposition!? communism does NOT imply CRIMINALITY will be LOOSED to wreak havoc!! it implys a UNENCUMBERED atmosphere of UNDERSTANDING of man's TRUE NATURE!! not like tRUMP who is PROMOTING criminality as he represents the CALIGULA of the modern world!? you imply human nature is evil!! and should be manipulated by the CHARLATANS making themselves WEALTHY while doling out rewards to the DESERVING SERVANTS!! all wrapped up in the WE'RE the NICE GUYS FACADE!!
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  11. #475
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    self interest leads to healthy dispositions!? did al capone have a healthy disposition!? communism does NOT imply CRIMINALITY will be LOOSED to wreak havoc!! it implys a UNENCUMBERED atmosphere of UNDERSTANDING of man's TRUE NATURE!! not like tRUMP who is PROMOTING criminality as he represents the CALIGULA of the modern world!? you imply human nature is evil!! and should be manipulated by the CHARLATANS making themselves WEALTHY while doling out rewards to the DESERVING SERVANTS!! all wrapped up in the WE'RE the NICE GUYS FACADE!!
    To begin, I never said, or inferred Al Capone or someone like him is an ideal model of human behavior. Read what I posted! What I said repeatedly is humans who pursue their competence needs tend to have health dispositions. By that I mean, as an example, if you have certain aptitudes for doing certain things, you should pursue activities which allows you to realize your full potential in those activities.

    I never said or implied human nature is evil. You say communism "implys a UNENCUMBERED atmosphere of UNDERSTANDING of man's TRUE NATURE!!" What do you think is man's true nature? What did Marx say about man's true nature.? If you read what I have posted you will find quotations by Marx, or you could read what Marx wrote, don't just guess! You got a lot of things wrong!

    One of my main points about Marx is hardly anyone has read what Marx wrote, and when they do they don't understand his meanings. Again, here is one of my statements about Marx. Read it, or if you don't want to read what I have posted about Marx, read what Marx wrote.


    https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar.../Manifesto.pdf


    Here are excerpts of his writings.

    Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable. 1.Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4.Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the resources. Proletarians and Communists populace over the country. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production. When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisieis compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.


    Here are some important questions based on what Marx wrote.

    How do you eliminate private property? How do you eliminate government without creating chaos or "criminality gone amok." How do you reduce social class differences to a common denominator for a equalitarian society? How do you eliminate all rights of inheritance? How do you share land for the common good? How do you divide up property without violating individual rights? Is everyone really equal? Are talented individuals equal to less gifted individuals? How about the high school drop out, the psychotic murderer, the town bully, and the laziest person in town. Are they all equal to the town doctor, mortician, musician, or city engineer? Who gets the best land? We know of course, there is no such thing as equality for the distribution of land and resources. You see where this is going. Are we all equal? Will Marxian beliefs make us equal? In order to distribute societal resources, we must have a plan, or a qualification list. Again, Marx didn't take into consideration "competence" of individuals. My favorite example for the ridiculousness of Marxism is building a bridge. How do you build a bridge which won't fall apart with the first heavy truck? How about all those specialized areas such as architecture, engineering, skilled labor, etc.? Don't those functions require an education, which requires stratification of education, abilities, and training? How do you achieve those functions in an "associated" society? How does an industrial society work if you eliminate ownership and management? How do you eliminate distinctions between town and country? How does it work without the allocation of labor based on "competencies" or abilities? How can a society function without social classes? How can a society function without economic rewards? How can a society function without incentives for outstanding contributions. How can a society function without a government? What is the meaning of "free development," [/U] If there are few examples, and it can't happen, why is one required to believe in Marxism?

    Here is one of Marx's most ridiculous statements. "In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all."

    What kind of associations can do this? Do we post signs saying any and all are welcome to apply, and all will be paid the same? Oh, yes, I am certain people will run to get a job! How do you allocate work without knowing competences or abilities (degrees, education, skills, and experience)? What if another nation threatens to conquer, don't you need a government to defend citizens? If you have free education, who pays for it? Where do you find idealists to accomplish such feats? What happens to all of the highly competent people who may embarrass others with their superior know how and achievements? Doesn't Marx infer we are equal? How do you eliminate ambition, abilities, and experiences which differentiate humans form one another? Don't people want to enjoy the fruits of their labor? How do you make people want to live in harmony with one another while dealing with their differences? As for housing, it means if you have a large house you must share rooms with others? How do we have a society based on associations? Who owns or operates businesses when some have little or no ability? Doesn't ability mean social difference? We don't want symbols of human attributes showing. Do we? Everyone must dress the same. We must strive for equality. All gifted musicians must allow lousy musicians to play in the band or orchestra. Ha. Ha. You can spend much time finding examples of Marx's ridiculous propositions. It is all there In writings of Marx.

    Read postings for examples of the impossibility of making people equal. It requires a strong central government to enforce rules! Capitalism works best in a free society. Communism works best in a strong government where government officials dictate rules and regulations. In communist societies, free elections are forbidden. In capitalist societies, free elections are essential. In order to believe equality for an entire society can be achieved, we must first find examples of it the real world.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-30-2018 at 01:24 AM.

  12. #476
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    seems to me marx was attempting to take the IDEALS of RELIGION and saying why do we need a god to succeed!? we can do it thru our own understanding and co-operation!? trust in god can become trust in government!?
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  13. #477
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    seems to me marx was attempting to take the IDEALS of RELIGION and saying why do we need a god to succeed!? we can do it thru our own understanding and co-operation!? trust in god can become trust in government!?
    Is lexx ready to help socialism, a type of government he favors? Maybe, he can go to Venezuela and help government officials stabilize the collapsing Socialist nation. If your read Marx you discover him defining Socialism as a societal condition preceding Communism. Then if you study most collapsing socialist nations you discover they didn’t get there, Communism didn’t happen because socialism failed! Venezuela is presently undergoing a tragic collapse as millions of people flee the nation. Even it a nation survives the brutal transition from socialism to communism, the chances of it surviving to become prosperous, or economically sound, are remote, if not impossible. Venezuela is a good example of what happens when Marxists take over a nation.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36319877

    Where in the world is an example of a successful Marxist socialist nation? Maybe, Lexx can enlighten us.

    lol



    Last edited by Cnance; 12-30-2018 at 07:24 PM.

  14. #478
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    venezuela is UNDER ATTACK from the USA FINANCIALLY!! socialism MUST NOT be allowed to SUCCEED!! dont help that venezuela has low knowledge leaders from the bario!? it's like christianity must NOT be ALLOWED to succeed!! of course that's an EASY TASK as most so called christians would NEVER volunteer to DIE for the CAUSE!!
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  15. #479
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    venezuela is UNDER ATTACK from the USA FINANCIALLY!! socialism MUST NOT be allowed to SUCCEED!! dont help that venezuela has low knowledge leaders from the bario!? it's like christianity must NOT be ALLOWED to succeed!! of course that's an EASY TASK as most so called christians would NEVER volunteer to DIE for the CAUSE!!
    You made up a big lie. There is no evidence the US is attacking Venezuela with financial resources to bring it down. It is what out of touch liberals do, they lie a lot. Reality is too depressing. lol

    Face it, socialism doesn't work. For you to refute my argument, evidence is required!

    You are mixing up religion with politics. Religious discussions belong on religious threads.
    Last edited by Cnance; 12-31-2018 at 01:49 AM.

  16. #480
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    next thing you'll CLAM is that the USA is NOT financially ATTACKING the COMMUNIST countrys TOO!? the USA has a TRACK RECORD of third world PRIVATE EXPLOITATION!! and its all about your socialism VS authoritarian capitalism!!
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