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  1. #673
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM View Post
    Communism failed... the USSR is proof of that. The countless pages written here are nothing more than an exaggerated rant. Communism failed. Discussion over. However, pure Capitalism has also failed... the U.S. is proof of that. Our healthcare system is the most expensive in the world not the best. The best would be taking care of those that are in need. Not selling insulin for $700.00+ for a month's supply or jacking the price of an epipen to a terrifying cost per dose... because you can. Our infrastructure is obsolete and crumbling because the companies that set it up and manage it do not want to make the investment or are only making the bare minimum investment to keep it limping along in order to maintain profits. Any 'bullet-trains' running in the U.S.? How about that interstate road system? It's falling apart. Our bridges? Really?
    Communism failed... Capitalism has failed. Perhaps it may be time to develop toward the social-democratic models? Please be aware... the U.S. is the ONLY developed nation without some form... any form of health care for it's citizens! My Brother-in-law broke a tooth in Germany a few years ago and received 'top-notch' dental care for less than the cost of an office visit in the U.S.. No waiting... in and out. Of course with advice to follow up with his regular dentist when he got home to the U.S.. The point is... he was able to finish his vacation comfortably and with a minimum of inconvenience.
    We can do better than what we already have.
    Just because billionaires are doing well does not mean that we as a nation are doing well. Maybe it's time to put the kool-aid cup down and take a good, hard, realistic look at our country and where we're going with it.
    On the thread I have discussed capitalism, but not exclusively in the USA. I have discussed capitalism compared to communism in the world. I have also discussed the shortcomings of capitalism. The point of my discussion is when compared to communism, capitalism, based mostly on economics, works better. I know there is a lot of material on the thread, but I have covered subjects you've mentioned. My point is based on essential functions capitalism is superior to communism. You can bemoan all you want about weaknesses of capitalism for health care, etc., but, compared to communist nations like the former USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, and collapsed East European nations, the U.S. is superior. For a fair analysis, you must be objective and compare all nations.

    Oh, if you want to discuss Communist China, you must acknowledge they "use capitalism" to finance communism.

    The essential part of my argument against communism is when applied it doesn't function because by reducing social differences you curtail human nature vis-à-vis opportunities to develop "competency-based needs." It is all there on the thread. If you want, we can discuss, but read what I've posted.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-16-2019 at 09:08 PM.

  2. #674
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    What's to discuss... they've failed. I said so and so did you. If you want to attempt to teach an economics or polisci class I suggest you get your teaching credentials in order and go to a school that will hire you to teach those subjects. Otherwise you're just so much wasted space.

  3. #675
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM View Post
    What's to discuss... they've failed. I said so and so did you. If you want to attempt to teach an economics or polisci class I suggest you get your teaching credentials in order and go to a school that will hire you to teach those subjects. Otherwise you're just so much wasted space.
    What the hell does that have to do with my thread? Evidently, you haven't read it! It is alright to criticize, but know what you say! The thread isn't about economics, it is about communism! Yes, economics is part of the discussion, but the thread is about COMMUNISM!
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-16-2019 at 10:20 PM.

  4. #676
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    i would like to clarify that while i agree with a lot of marx quotes and agree that the ideals of communism would be good i am NOT a chinese or OTHER form of communist!! i favor regulated capitalism!!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  5. #677
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i would like to clarify that while i agree with a lot of marx quotes and agree that the ideals of communism would be good i am NOT a chinese or OTHER form of communist!! i favor regulated capitalism!!
    The problem is the kind of regulation you want is stifling, it destroys capitalism. In particular, there would be little room for entrepreneurship, which is the seedbed of capitalism. Here is some advice, think your position through to include all contingencies. As far as I know, hardly anyone has thought threw the implications of communism, not even Marx!Why doesn't anyone get it! Are there that many stupid intellectuals in our world? ha. ha.

    In short, how can you have a society based on the elimination of social differences when "competency-based" evaluations are essential for self-esteem maintenance. How can people function when they are not allowed to freely develop their competencies?
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-17-2019 at 08:47 PM.

  6. #678
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Here are my comments about "entrepreneurship, the seedbed of capitalism."

    It is an obvious truth that entrepreneurship survives and thrives in a capitalist economy where there is sufficient freedom to encourage and reward businessmen with innovative ideas. Moreover, in a capitalist nation, economic rewards for successful entrepreneurship are adequate so as to encourage innovation of products for marketing and mass consumption. Everyone knows stories about people like Bill Gates who with awe inspiring product innovation and marketing skills are able to build a company from the ground up to become a mega firm employing thousands of people. On almost every criterion, entrepreneurship violates principles of communism. The very idea of an awe-inspiring product allowing an entrepreneur to mass produce for successful sales and mounting profits is antithetical to communist principles promoting egalitarianism and equal distribution of land, resources, and, most definitely, the confiscation of wealth.

    In order for a society to become communist, capitalism must be curtailed, which means there is little if no incentive for businessmen to open up the marketplace with a new product. Assuming the communist government would confiscate profits from a booming company, how is the new company going to expand production facilities when the government limits profits? Then, there is the issue of ownership.

    Assuming, as in the case of Communist China, the government has absolute control, how do entrepreneurs thrive without land acquisition as their product base expands. There would have to be cooperation between communist government leaders and entrepreneurs. The big problem, of course, is what to do when the two factions have little in common? In Communist China, we find the government allowing capitalistic practices in order to make the economy prosper. It is a huge contradiction, but it is one which Chinese communist officials have been able to endure. Even so, we find capitalist enterprises in Communist China on the wane. Recently, there has been an exodus of Chinese firms from China to other nations in South East Asia. Moreover, Chinese communist officials have not been able to reconcile their ideology of equalitarianism with a policy of permissiveness for capitalism. However, one must not lose sight of the finer details of Chinese Communist rule. The Chinese Communist government has ownership rights to the land. Therefore, the “Communist Party” controls the nation.

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230295155_1
    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opini...-or-dispirited
    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chinese-companies-moving-abroad-to-avoid-trade-war-with-the-US-45934.html
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2019/06/10/thailand-sees-threefold-increase-in-chinese-companies-looking-to-move/#5bb635ab388f
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-17-2019 at 10:18 PM.

  7. #679
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    In the academic world, especially in sociology, Marx and Communism are popular subjects. However, most of these discussions ignore the consequences of Communism insofar as millions of people have been persecuted, imprisoned, and slaughter in large numbers. When will it end? When will academics deal with reality instead of living in fantasy worlds? Oh, I have a lot of experience inasmuch as I spent several years in a sociology department surrounded by Marxists. Academics live in fantasy land, they accept the ideals of Marxism while ignoring, or minimizing, the brutal consequences. The Marxian experiment is over! History has given us facts. For world nations, Marxism has resulted in brutal regimes with the destruction of farm land, homes, loss of freedom, and, most of all, the largest number of killings in world history!

    "Collectively, communist states killed as many as 100 million people, more than all other repressive regimes combined during the same time period. By far the biggest toll arose from communist efforts to collectivize agriculture and eliminate independent property-owning peasants. In China alone, Mao Zedong’s Great Leap Forward led to a man-made famine in which as many as 45 million people perished – the single biggest episode of mass murder in all of world history . In the Soviet Union, Joseph Stalin’s collectivization – which served as a model for similar efforts in China and elsewhere – took some 6 to 10 million lives . Mass famines occurred in many other communist regimes, ranging from North Korea to Ethiopia . In each of these cases, communist rulers were well aware that their policies were causing mass death, and in each they persisted nonetheless, often because they considered the extermination of “Kulak” peasants a feature rather than a bug."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.cb2ecd0b4fa9
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-19-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  8. #680
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Here is a comparison for lexx, so that he can learn why his commie ways are so destructive. No, Trump is not like lexx. He is not a commie. Based on history, communism is one of the most destructive forms of government ever! Never to late, lexx. Become a Trump support, reject communism, and have a good night sleep.

    The ideology of capitalism

    • People need freedom
    • When people compete against one another, they achieve greater things
    • Some people have more than others because they make better use of their abilities
    • Governments should not interfere with the rights of individuals to make their own living
    • The government should interfere in the economy as little as possible


    The ideology of communism

    • People need one another
    • When people work together as equals, they achieve greater things
    • No-one should have more than anyone else - everybody's needs are equally important
    • Governments should make sure that everyone's needs are being met
    • There is central control of the economy


    https://www.sahistory.org.za/article...t-start-russia

    If you contrast and compare ideologies of capitalism with communism, you reach striking conclusions about why communism is not a good fit for society.


    1. For all human societies, “freedom” appears to be a very important condition for the development and survival of citizens, or, if you will, subjects of the state. It is directly related to people’s competencies. As I have proposed, competence is a basic condition of humans inasmuch as it motivates people to develop and nurture their abilities. Moreover, the issue of “competency” assumes people are not equal, and therefore are not inhibited by restrictions to develop their best abilities.



    The military is a good example of what happens when people are subject to commandments, rather than opportunities to realize human potential. We know, of course, the necessity of military discipline for the successful defeat of an enemy. Does the military, however, inhibit freedom to develop one’s full potential. We can discuss the military with ideas about both advantages and disadvantages of military life as it pertains to human potential. The most crucial idea for “military repression” is basic training where military recruits learn military discipline so as to function as a unit to defeat an enemy. Recruits in bootcamp are subject to discipline to learn military standards and skills to defeat an enemy. After the recruit has been disciplined to military rule, the soldier, or sailor is assigned to regimental groups to learn specialties enabling them to use weapons and techniques to attack and defeat the enemy. It is during the secondary phase of military training that the soldier or sailor becomes a formidable adversary for defeating the enemy by developing competencies for military tasks. In coordination with other members, recruits learn to utilize weaponry or military assets necessary to attack and destroy the enemy. If, after bootcamp training, or officer training programs, the soldier or sailor, is not assigned to additional training to optimize competencies, there would be no utilization of human potential for a successful military operation.

    What is important in our example of military discipline is the method by which it produces an army or navy. Bootcamp training is necessary to teach recruits military discipline to carry out orders for the successful completion of battle plans. After the first phase of bootcamp training, experienced military personnel determine, according to tests, military drills, and professional acumen, the proper allocation of men for training programs. Subsequently, we have a well-trained army or navy prepared to defeat an enemy.

    There are numerous examples of how people are processed in the armed forces, or in civilian training programs for the efficient allocation of human resources. The list for the allocation for human labor includes military training, vocational schools, on the job training programs, college and university programs, and, of course, the competitive marketplace where survival or termination of a good or service is determined by job performance.

    In short, the means by which human resources are utilized depends on “competency needs” and how those needs are fulfilled in most areas of human activity. Capitalism has succeeded as a social and economic system primarily because it allows for an efficient use of human resources in numerous areas of activity. Communism, on the other hand, restricts freedom for individuals to realize “competency needs,” therefore stifling individual freedom.

    One may equate communism with an army or navy inasmuch as it is government control of human capital. However, even though the government proposes equality, it utilizes knowledge of social differences for soldiers and sailors for the efficient use of military forces. However, in the marketplace, a communist government violates individual freedom by allocating labor through stifling government bureaucracies and controls impinging on individual freedoms. By not allowing the free market to determine proper utilization of human resources, a communist government causes inefficiency in the marketplace.

    In central planning offices removed from government owned companies, and not in direct contact with market demands or fluctuations, government bureaucrats plan for the allocation of material resources and labor, the consequences of which are inefficiencies of productivity and wasteful use of human resources.

    While a communist government may have a lethal armed force capable of defending the nation or defeating an enemy, it’s economy may be in jeopardy from the inefficient allocation of labor and material resources. This phenomenon of government control producing military efficiencies while at the same time bringing about economic dysfunctions leading to national disaster is found with the collapse of the USSR, the decline of the Cuban economy, the eminent collapse of Venezuela, and other government failures. The crux of the problem for these communist nations is while they may be able to produce effective military forces, they cannot, because of economic failures, sustain the nation.

    While a communist government may have an efficient military, it cannot sustain military operations without a well-functioning market with capital expenditures from the efficient sale of goods and services. For several decades, in the USSR, the government controlled the economy with relative success until the free market world economy impacted with more efficient uses of labor and material resources. Thus, we have an example of world nations defeating a communist nation with free markets, or more efficient allocation of labor with “competency needs” of workers more fully utilized.

  9. #681
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Communism must be the worst kind of government ever! It says, work hard we need your money. Lazy people love it; they can live off everyone else's labors. It says we are equal even though we aren't. It says entrepreneurs harm society and should be eliminated. It says all the tall heads should be shopped off, ha. ha. It says all those with big houses should let the poor live in spare bedrooms. It says capitalists should serve life person terms for making a lot of money. It says free speech should be eliminated because it might upset government officials. It says smart people should take dump pills to eliminate put-downs from dump people. It says awards for successful outcomes should be eliminated; it may cause others to have low self-esteem. It says sporting events should be carefully monitored for fear of offended bad athletes. It says old people should take suicide pills to eliminate social and medical costs for younger people.

  10. #682
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    Is it true, lexx has joined the Chinese Communist Party? I have heard they are looking for dedicated trump haters who also hate America. Apparently, Chinese communist officials have reserved a special cabin
    for lexx on the edge of a snake swamp. He'll be very happy there with so many Anti-Trump followers.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-07-2020 at 03:10 AM.

  11. #683
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    The ridiculous implications of communism can be found in multiple examples of real world activities. As an example, take a sporting event, the one hundred yard dash. Inevitably there will be winners and losers. Well, suppose we impose communist rules. How do we level the playing field? Do we take away awards from the winners? Do we give losers special favors because they lost? How do we make everyone feel equal or even special?

    Take a larger example, how about the social structure of a capitalist society. We assume its structure is based on different abilities. As for the absurdity of communism, allow a construction worker to design a building, or a medical technician to perform an operation. How about a untrained singer bellowing the national anthem at a football game? Let incompetent workers take over their plants or workplaces. What would happen? We can go on and on with so many examples of the absurdity of communism. I am waiting for a rebuttal. Aren't there any Marxists out there?

    Is there a good argument for communism?

    Assuming Communism is a stateless or moneyless society where class distinctions (upper class, middle-class and lower-class) don’t exist, how is it possible? No matter how you justify such a society, it is "utopian." Eventually, it will fail. People require reinforcement or self-esteem maintenance, which means they need to know if their best efforts are acceptable. How can they know others perception of their efforts if rewards or feedback is lacking? You work and achieve your goals, another person works and fails. Should both live in the same kind of home, receive the same paycheck, and have the same retirement income? To see the application of this idea, consider numerous lookalike apartment buildings built by the USSR for the labor force. Shouldn't the better worker get more money? Shouldn't entrepreneurs receive remuneration for their talent and productive ideas? There are many, many examples of the ridiculousness of Communism, it is la la land.

  12. #684
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    Re: Is Communism the best fit for society?

    I claim communism defies human nature. If it were the right social order, why do so many communist societies collapse? Where in the real world do you find equality? What groups of people or individuals are equal? I suggest you find equality in some government organizations where government officials control resources and people for what leaders propose to be “proper conduct.” In free markets, individuals are not constrained by government dictates or organizations. They seek to define themselves according to what they do best. Why do communists struggle to establish a dysfunctional society? Could it be they don’t understand human nature?

    I propose people are different because their identity and ambitions are based on competency needs. People are motivated to gain social recognition for competence, not social equality. Everyone, in one way or another, strives to developed what “they can do best” in order to achieve. As for evidence, it is everywhere in the real world. Young people learn what they can do best, develop competences, and then allow themselves opportunities to “achieve,” or excel at activities or endeavors most likely to satisfy “competence needs.”

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