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  1. #1
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    If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    It's not easy to make life from nonliving matter.
    Especially if you don't have one good reason
    for that to happen.

    Law of entropy - "The key insight was that the world is inherently active, and that whenever an energy distribution is out of equilibrium a potential or thermodynamic "force" (the gradient of a potential) exists that the world acts spontaneously to dissipate or minimize. All real-world change or dynamics is seen to follow, or be motivated, by this law." http://www.entropylaw.com/entropy2ndlaw.html

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    Last edited by Skywriting; 10-28-2017 at 05:48 AM.
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    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

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  2. #2
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    It's not easy to make life from nonliving matter.
    Especially if you don't have one good reason
    for that to happen.

    Law of entropy - "The key insight was that the world is inherently active, and that whenever an energy distribution is out of equilibrium a potential or thermodynamic "force" (the gradient of a potential) exists that the world acts spontaneously to dissipate or minimize. All real-world change or dynamics is seen to follow, or be motivated, by this law." http://www.entropylaw.com/entropy2ndlaw.html


    ok is this a god is genius example in the making!? and question IS LIFE made from nonliving matter!? more like living FORMS are made from matter!?
    Last edited by lexx; 10-29-2017 at 08:59 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    ok is this a god is genius example in the making!? and question IS LIFE made from nonliving matter!? nore like living FORMS are made from matter!?
    And what is the purpose of these living forms?
    What value do they add to
    chemistry
    heat
    energy
    mass
    radiation?

    If the tendency is toward death, why is there life at all?
    Is the moon or mars working to create life for some reason?
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  4. #4
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    And what is the purpose of these living forms?
    What value do they add to
    chemistry
    heat
    energy
    mass
    radiation?

    If the tendency is toward death, why is there life at all?
    Is the moon or mars working to create life for some reason?
    you know the ol' saying why ask why!? but i was driving at the point life is not made of matter!? life forms are!life is in spirit!of course that sems odd to correlate when plants and animals, insects and all other living creatures are considered!?
    Last edited by lexx; 10-29-2017 at 09:11 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    you know the ol' saying why ask why!? but i was driving at the point life is not made of matter!? life forms are!life is in spirit!of course that sems odd to correlate when plants and animals, insects and all other living creatures are considered!?
    Non-living forms are also made of matter, so there is no help from that fact.
    Again, why would non-living forms desire toward living forms....since none seem to to that. AND living is not all that easy. To what is causing it to be here. We have millions of examples, and we are litterally wading in life our entire existence. There should be at least one or two scientific theories about why life is here?


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    Last edited by Skywriting; 10-31-2017 at 07:14 PM.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  6. #6
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    i mean as far a science is concerned life evolved from the elements when they combined in a certain way by ACCIDENT!! maybe it was LIGHTNING that started the whole thing AKA frankenstein!? you know that story shows the scientific rationale at work but the creature enjoyed no MEANING for its life!? it was an animal in human form!?
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  7. #7
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    It's not easy to make life from nonliving matter.
    All matter, atoms, are non-living.

    Besides learning to spell 'genius' may I suggest you learn the difference between energy, atoms, molecules, and cells. After working on these you may be ready for more complex things like physics and biology.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    Law of entropy - "The key insight was that the world is inherently active, and that whenever an energy distribution is out of equilibrium a potential or thermodynamic "force" (the gradient of a potential) exists that the world acts spontaneously to dissipate or minimize. All real-world change or dynamics is seen to follow, or be motivated, by this law." http://www.entropylaw.com/entropy2ndlaw.html
    The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics deals with the transfer of energy (heat), hence the name used is thermodynamics. Entropy is a 'property' within thermodynamics. Also the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies to a 'closed system', the Earth is not a 'closed system'.

    Try this source;
    https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/thermo2.html

    It's for kids but it is more informative on the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics then your 'creationist' crap.

    Oh, and here's another article for you from some physicists that have actually given their names.
    infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/entropy.html;
    Entropy Explained (2003, 2005)

    Richard Carrier



    Addendum A to "Bad Science, Worse Philosophy: the Quackery and Logic-Chopping of David Foster's The Philosophical Scientists" (2000)


    Introduction


    The concept of entropy is generally not well understood among laymen. With the help of several physicists, including Wolfgang Gasser and Malcolm Schreiber, I have composed the following article in an attempt to correct a common misunderstanding. Contrary to what many laymen think, there is no Law of Entropy which states that order must always decrease. That is a layman's fiction, although born from a small kernel of reality. The actual Law of Entropy is better known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The First Law is that energy is not created or destroyed, and the Third Law is that absolute zero cannot be achieved--each of these laws is actually entailed from the first, in conjunction with certain other assumptions. But it is the Second Law that many laymen incorrectly think says that order must always decrease.

    In traditional thermodynamics, entropy is a measure of the amount of energy in a closed system that is no longer available to effect changes in that system. A system is closed when no energy is being added to or removed from it, and energy becomes unavailable not by leaving the system, but by becoming irretrievably disordered, as a consequence of the laws of statistical mechanics.

    .................
    [click link for full article]
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  8. #8
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    All matter, atoms, are non-living.
    Correct. And why would these ever form into living forms?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    Besides learning to spell 'genius' may I suggest...
    Misspellings in titles get better response.



    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    you learn the difference between energy, atoms, molecules, and cells. After working on these you may be ready for more complex things like physics and biology.
    After reading those library books, what theories or formulas for life procreation did you learn?

    I am waiting for your advanced education to explain why life exists.
    Or why it started?
    Or what is life's advantage over non-life planets? (all the rest)



    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics deals with the transfer of energy (heat), hence the name used is thermodynamics. Entropy is a 'property' within thermodynamics. Also the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies to a 'closed system', the Earth is not a 'closed system'.
    How is your thermal theory for life affected by closed or open systems? It there a different theorem for each type?



    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    It's for kids but it is more informative on the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics then your 'creationist' crap.

    So then there are first, laws of science, "then" creationist crap?
    You buy into one then the other?

    I've read some creationist stuff in the past.
    Thanks to what they teach, I've moved on.
    Last edited by Skywriting; 11-02-2017 at 02:55 PM.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  9. #9
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i mean as far a science is concerned life evolved from the elements when they combined in a certain way by ACCIDENT!! maybe it was LIGHTNING that started the whole thing AKA frankenstein!? you know that story shows the scientific rationale at work but the creature enjoyed no MEANING for its life!? it was an animal in human form!?
    Life is pretty fragile. Kind of like the sex model, men are useful when a woman wants offspring. Then have food for the kid and shelter....and enough offspring so that some are left after predators. Then plenty o mates for the offspring.

    Chemistry is the same. One or two lightning strikes don't create life, nor the support system needed to keep those two thousand strikes "alive" if each one did produce a FranKen-life.

    So why were conditions right and what sustained life and why?

    What theory,
    thermal,
    chemical,
    electrical,
    is sustaining life today?
    Why does it continue?

    Let's suppose that each lightning strike created a Herman Munster,
    one Eddy, and one Grandpa. Who would cook the food?
    Would they have a place to live? Would there be food to eat?
    Who would they mate with? Three Munsters for each lightning
    strike and no mates for sex, and nobody to cook dinner, supposing
    there was food available. Just algae to eat? If your lucky!

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    Last edited by Skywriting; 11-02-2017 at 02:49 PM.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  10. #10
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    All matter, atoms, are non-living.
    It's not easy to create life from nonliving matter.
    Would you agree?


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    Last edited by Skywriting; 11-01-2017 at 11:46 AM.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  11. #11
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    the difference between the scientific approach and the religious 1 is the former seeks to show life originates from matter while the latter claims life is the CAUSE of matter!? life defined as god the creator! so i was just thinking science uses the term ENERGY to represent the life force of the universe!? is that separate from the idea of consciousness!? guess i'll have to google it!!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  12. #12
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    All matter, atoms, are non-living.
    It's not easy to create life from nonliving matter.
    Would you agree?
    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    Wow, talk about quote-mining and dishonesty.

    The homepage for the link in the OP is at:
    http://www.entropylaw.com/index.html;
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    What is that there at the end of the title;
    ORDER FROM DISORDER
    And what is this part in the preview?
    According to the old view, the second law was viewed as a 'law of disorder'. The major revolution in the last decade is the recognition of the "law of maximum entropy production" or "MEP" and with it an expanded view of thermodynamics showing that the spontaneous production of order from disorder is the expected consequence of basic laws.
    Wow, this website Skywriting linked to is, in fact, claiming that, "order from disorder is the expected consequence of basic laws."

    Also notice that at the bottom of the homepage that I linked to it says "(c) Copyright 2001". That was 16 years ago. So, that would make this info about 26 years old.

    And if you check that websites references at;
    http://www.entropylaw.com/References.html
    You will find that the works of a "Swenson, R." is the reference for just about everything on that website.

    After a bit of digging I found that this is Dr. Rod Swenson, of the Department of Psychology at the University of Connecticut.

    Interestingly enough, I found that Dr. Swenson gave a lecture at the Swiss Institute of Contemporary Art in New York about 16 moths ago.
    https://www.swissinstitute.net/event...ion-of-social/;
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    And, what is that there where it says,
    Rod Swenson is most known for his identification and elaboration of the Law of Maximum Entropy Production (“LMEP” or the “4th Law”) more than 25 years ago. Along with his analysis of autocatakinetic (canonical self-organizing) systems, with LMEP Swenson turned the prevailing view of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (the Entropy Law) as a law of disorder on its head. He showed why instead “the world is in the order production business,” accounting for the ubiquitous and opportunistic transformation from disordered to more ordered or highly ordered states that characterizes evolution on Earth from the origin of life to the rise of nation states and global economies.
    Wow, just WOW!
    The website linked to in the OP, in fact, states the opposite to what the OP is claiming it says.



    Quote Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post
    It's not easy to create life from nonliving matter.
    Would you agree?
    As PZ Myers once stated;
    The second law of thermodynamics argument is one of the hoariest, silliest claims in the creationist collection. It's self-refuting. Point to the creationist: ask whether he was a baby once. Has he grown? Has he become larger and more complex? Isn't he standing there in violation of the second law himself? Demand that he immediately regress to a slimy puddle of mingled menses and semen.
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics:
    For the PZ Myers quote and also;
    The laws of thermodynamics are a grand-sounding term often bandied around in discussions of science, pseudoscience and general woo. Despite being scientific laws themselves, they are often cited by pseudoscientists (e.g., creationists) as a reason for why some other bit of science must be wrong. The classic example of this is "evolution must be wrong as it violates the laws of thermodynamics". As well as being ironic, such claims are usually also bullshit.
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  13. #13
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics deals with the transfer of energy (heat), hence the name used is thermodynamics. Entropy is a 'property' within thermodynamics. Also the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies to a 'closed system', the Earth is not a 'closed system'.
    I apologize for my error here. I am an Archæologist and not a Physicist after all.

    I should have stated that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies to a "Isolated system" and not a "Closed system".

    Per rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics there is a difference;
    Thermodynamic systems

    Open system — Exchanges both matter and energy with its surroundings
    Closed system — Exchanges energy, but not matter, with its surroundings
    Isolated system — Exchanges neither energy nor matter with its surroundings
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  14. #14
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    Wow, talk about quote-mining and dishonesty.

    The homepage for the link in the OP is at:
    http://www.entropylaw.com/index.html;


    What is that there at the end of the title;


    And what is this part in the preview?


    Wow, this website Skywriting linked to is, in fact, claiming that, "order from disorder is the expected consequence of basic laws."

    Also notice that at the bottom of the homepage that I linked to it says "(c) Copyright 2001". That was 16 years ago. So, that would make this info about 26 years old.

    And if you check that websites references at;
    http://www.entropylaw.com/References.html
    You will find that the works of a "Swenson, R." is the reference for just about everything on that website.

    After a bit of digging I found that this is Dr. Rod Swenson, of the Department of Psychology at the University of Connecticut.

    Interestingly enough, I found that Dr. Swenson gave a lecture at the Swiss Institute of Contemporary Art in New York about 16 moths ago.
    https://www.swissinstitute.net/event...ion-of-social/;

    And, what is that there where it says,


    Wow, just WOW!
    The website linked to in the OP, in fact, states the opposite to what the OP is claiming it says.




    As PZ Myers once stated;


    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics:
    For the PZ Myers quote and also;
    I don't mind if people claim that entropy toward disorder does not exist. The only reason for the claim is zero support for order. Like zero point zero.

    I have seen ONE example of order forming, in crystal structures, but the amount of energy continues to drop after the formation of crystals.

    Without the original entropy law, no one could reach this conclusion:

    Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

    What exactly is the heat death of the universe and where can I find out ...

    Heat Death: The Ultimate Fate of Our Universe | RealClearScience

    I'll avoid any quotes, as you request.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  15. #15
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    Wow, talk about quote-mining and dishonesty.
    It's not easy to create life from nonliving matter.
    Would you agree?


    A baby grows from two cells that join.

    There is no increase in complexity.
    The amount of information in those two cells is multiple times the resulting adult. There is redundancy as well as nearly infinite complexity in those two cells. Half of all the information in each of the two cells is lost as the two combine. So the result is half of the original. So the claim of increased complexity assumed from "Size" is.. just... so.............. slack.
    Last edited by Skywriting; 11-04-2017 at 06:41 AM.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

  16. #16
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    Re: If God exists, He's a genious. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    I apologize for my error here. I am an Archæologist and not a Physicist after all.

    I should have stated that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies to a "Isolated system" and not a "Closed system".

    Per rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics there is a difference;
    No problem.

    Which of those, closed or open
    isolated or communal
    here or there
    claim to provide insight into
    why life has developed where
    there is no life?

    I don''t care which you use or even if you use them.

    WHAT laws of nature point toward life?

    Look out your window, and explain.

    Sun, wet mud, thermodynamics, electricity, fluid properties.....what?
    Last edited by Skywriting; 11-04-2017 at 06:48 AM.
    Please do correct me when I'm Wrong.
    Matthew 7:12
    In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

    Get Answered Prayer - Steps 1, 2, & 3

    Any other questions? - Sky

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