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  1. #33
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    unfortunately for cnance the so called gospel of thomas is a fake written by a sect called the gnostics!? and used by those who want to make a name for themselves and sell books!? ad to that his claims you have to take the bible with a grain of salt as they say and this gives him complete license to create whatever stories he cares to IMAGINE for the same reason......create fame and admiration for HIMSELF!? end of story!! SCAMMER EXPOSED!?
    I have one thing to offer regarding the above argument and it may seem a contradiction to my previous stance on religions. IF I were to have access to a time machine and I only had one shot (and this has always been my position), I would travel back to the time of Jesus and follow his every move. That would clear up a lot of shit for me. Ill bet he was just a man with a message and an offer of a "no cost" god as opposed to the gods of Rome who needed sacrifice and sacrifices cost money. All you needed to do was repent at the end and even if you had sinned all your life, you would be welcomed into Heaven (worked for Rasputin). Whats not to like

    I would love to see dinosaurs but I'm not sure if I could breathe the air.

  2. #34
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    unfortunately for cnance the so called gospel of thomas is a fake written by a sect called the gnostics!? and used by those who want to make a name for themselves and sell books!? ad to that his claims you have to take the bible with a grain of salt as they say and this gives him complete license to create whatever stories he cares to IMAGINE for the same reason......create fame and admiration for HIMSELF!? end of story!! SCAMMER EXPOSED!?
    It is such a waste of time discussing with an illiterate. Do you know what gnostic means? Here is the confirmation for The Gospel of Thomas not being a fake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

    Oh, can you read big words? ha. ha.

    Oh, yes, you must refute research findings in order to declare the four NT gospels to be authentic. Here they are again. No matter what, you can't deny the truth of these findings. You can, of course, do your usually deceptive tricks, but it won't work. You could also learn to read better so you can understand big words. Ha. Ha.

    Just because the entire Christian community believes the NT gospels doesn't mean they are accurate. Assuming you have an open mind about our discussion, here are some important references for you to read. The Missing Gospels by Darrell L. Bock, PH.D., The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. The book by Mack is the most important. Using a brilliant analysis supported by the world's foremost biblical scholars, Mack traces the time line for the Jesus movement, documenting when Jesus movement leaders changed the Jesus narrative from Jesus a wise man to Jesus the son of God. If you reject his analysis, you must present a cogent argument.

    As a scholar, I have researched the Jesus family. There is absolutely no historical evidence for Joseph and Mary. What you find are what early church leaders wrote without historic affirmation. They, like NT authors, made up stories. Again, if you do serious research, you'll find prior gospels conflicting with NT gospels. Mostly, you don't find Jesus stories (narratives) in prior gospel.
    One of my most remarkable findings is about the NT gospel narratives. You find no one single gospel narrative in prior gospels, those gospels the church tried to destroy. What you find in historical documents are prior gospels with only Jesus sayings. As an example, The Gospel of Thomas has about 40% of Jesus sayings found in the four NT gospels, but no Jesus narrative story. Isn't that interesting. As it turns out, those NT gospel authors were excellent writers of fiction
    .

    Refute these findings if you can. I know you can't, but I also know you will deny these findings. Can you read books. If not, just admit you have no case.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-12-2017 at 04:54 PM.

  3. #35
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    no matter what you CLAIM as to authenticity from things in the past it's ALL HERESAY and OPINION!! you admitted people tried to DESTROY evidence as you put it what makes you think that the current gospels were NOT a victim of such a campaign!? just becuz there has been no discovery yet!? i didnt say the gnostics did NOT EXIST i just said they wrote gospels according to their OWN OPINIONS!! you know LIKE YOU SAID ABOUT THE BIBLE!! the authors ADDED or OMITTED things that did/didnt fit their own THINKING!? you just dont UNDERSTAND the MAGNETIC PULL of RICHES thru controversy/DISCOVERY!? you play the CAPITALIST GAME but think there are pure honest sincere souls that just do controversial things for pure human benefit!? all your ARGUMENTS are BIASED to SERVE your LUNACY!! like i said before, you have NOT been around enough crazy people to recognize your own OBSESSIONS!!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  4. #36
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    It is such a waste of time discussing with an illiterate. Do you know what gnostic means? Here is the confirmation for The Gospel of Thomas not being a fake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas


    Refute these findings if you can. I know you can't, but I also know you will deny these findings. Can you read books. If not, just admit you have no case.
    LoL,
    From Cnance's source.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel...nce_and_author;
    As one of the earliest accounts of the teachings of Jesus, the Gospel of Thomas is regarded by some scholars as one of the most important texts in understanding early Christianity outside the New Testament. In terms of faith, however, no major Christian group accepts this gospel as canonical or authoritative. It is an important work for scholars working on the Q document, which itself is thought to be a collection of sayings or teachings upon which the gospels of Matthew and Luke are partly based. Although no copy of Q has ever been discovered, the fact that Thomas is similarly a 'sayings' Gospel is viewed by some scholars as an indication that the early Christians did write collections of the sayings of Jesus, bolstering the Q hypothesis.

    Most scholars do not consider Apostle Thomas the author of this document and the author remains unknown. J. Menard produced a summary of the academic consensus in the mid-1970s which stated that the gospel was probably a very late text written by a Gnostic author, thus having very little relevance to the study of the early development of Christianity. Scholarly views of Gnosticism and the Gospel of Thomas have since become more nuanced and diverse. Paterson Brown, for example, has argued forcefully that the three Coptic Gospels of Thomas, Philip and Truth are demonstrably not Gnostic writings, since all three explicitly affirm the basic reality and sanctity of incarnate life, which Gnosticism by definition considers illusory and evil.

    In the 4th century Cyril of Jerusalem considered the author a disciple of Mani who was also called Thomas. Cyril stated:

    Mani had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas. For he is not one of the twelve apostles but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.

    Many scholars consider the Gospel of Thomas to be a gnostic text, since it was found in a library among others, it contains Gnostic themes, and perhaps presupposes a Gnostic worldview. Others reject this interpretation, because Thomas lacks the full-blown mythology of Gnosticism as described by Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. 185), and because Gnostics frequently appropriated and used a large "range of scripture from Genesis to the Psalms to Homer, from the Synoptics to John to the letters of Paul."
    Still cherry picking your info Cnance.
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

  5. #37
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    yah thanks nomaxim i mean who's got time o DRAG this well meaning luny to his SENSES!? it would take a lifetime or someone who has the will and time to devote but FIRST there has to be a SIGN!! without that it's simply a waste of time!?
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  6. #38
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    yah thanks nomaxim i mean who's got time o DRAG this well meaning luny to his SENSES!? it would take a lifetime or someone who has the will and time to devote but FIRST there has to be a SIGN!! without that it's simply a waste of time!?
    Why don't you learn to read, here is nomaxim's posting.

    As one of the earliest accounts of the teachings of Jesus, the Gospel of Thomas is regarded by some scholars as one of the most important texts in understanding early Christianity outside the New Testament. In terms of faith, however, no major Christian group accepts this gospel as canonical or authoritative. It is an important work for scholars working on the Q document, which itself is thought to be a collection of sayings or teachings upon which the gospels of Matthew and Luke are partly based. Although no copy of Q has ever been discovered, the fact that Thomas is similarly a 'sayings' Gospel is viewed by some scholars as an indication that the early Christians did write collections of the sayings of Jesus, bolstering the Q hypothesis.

    Most scholars do not consider Apostle Thomas the author of this document and the author remains unknown. J. Menard produced a summary of the academic consensus in the mid-1970s which stated that the gospel was probably a very late text written by a Gnostic author, thus having very little relevance to the study of the early development of Christianity. Scholarly views of Gnosticism and the Gospel of Thomas have since become more nuanced and diverse. Paterson Brown, for example, has argued forcefully that the three Coptic Gospels of Thomas, Philip and Truth are demonstrably not Gnostic writings, since all three explicitly affirm the basic reality and sanctity of incarnate life, which Gnosticism by definition considers illusory and evil.

    In the 4th century Cyril of Jerusalem considered the author a disciple of Mani who was also called Thomas. Cyril stated:

    Mani had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas. For he is not one of the twelve apostles but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.

    Many scholars consider the Gospel of Thomas to be a gnostic text, since it was found in a library among others, it contains Gnostic themes, and perhaps presupposes a Gnostic worldview. Others reject this interpretation, because Thomas lacks the full-blown mythology of Gnosticism as described by Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. 185), and because Gnostics frequently appropriated and used a large "range of scripture from Genesis to the Psalms to Homer, from the Synoptics to John to the letters of Paul."

    If you had read my reference from Wikipedia you would find the same information. What you need to refute is 40% of Jesus sayings from the Gospel of Thomas are found in the four NT gospels. If you don't believe it, do your own research. Take a copy of The Gospel of Thomas and then look for those Jesus sayings in the four NT gospels. I bet you can't do it!

    In addition, here is irrefutable evidence for the false son of God narrative.

    The Missing Gospels by Darrell L. Bock, PH.D., The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. The book by Mack is the most important. Using a brilliant analysis supported by the world's foremost biblical scholars, Mack traces the time line for the Jesus movement, documenting when Jesus movement leaders changed the Jesus narrative from Jesus a wise man to Jesus the son of God. If you reject his analysis, you must present a cogent argument.

    Why don't you do your own research?
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-12-2017 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #39
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    yah thanks nomaxim i mean who's got time o DRAG this well meaning luny to his SENSES!? it would take a lifetime or someone who has the will and time to devote but FIRST there has to be a SIGN!! without that it's simply a waste of time!?
    Nah, we don't want to drag him to our side. He amuses us. I prefer him where I can poke him with pointed sticks of logic

  8. #40
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    I am taking a long vacation from sewer rats (lexx and chesty). I have never experienced so much filthy talk, foul ideas, lies, insults, distortions, and absolute evil. I wont be back. They have a lot of postings to dump on with their filthy rhetoric, and I am certain Satan is pleased with their destructive efforts.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-14-2017 at 08:10 PM.

  9. #41
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I am taking a long vacation from sewer rats (lexx and chesty). I have never experienced so much filthy talk, foul ideas, lies, insults, distortions, and absolute evil. I wont be back. You have a lot of postings to dump on with your filthy rhetoric, and I am certain Satan is pleased with your destructive efforts.

    So, what you waiting for Chuckie evil doll

  10. #42
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    i think what cnance meant to imply is that if 40% of the sayings are found exactly the same in another document then it means the newer 1 is false!? kinda like plagiarizing!? and what does that have to do with the holy spirit which i guess he denies TOO!? i mean he is also claiming there is no salvation!? he mixes a lot of claims TOGETHER based on his idea there is NO HOPE so to speak!? oh wait......maybe if we just obey
    god......god will say.....hmmm that guys not so bad after all!?
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  11. #43
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i think what cnance meant to imply is that if 40% of the sayings are found exactly the same in another document then it means the newer 1 is false!? kinda like plagiarizing!? and what does that have to do with the holy spirit which i guess he denies TOO!? i mean he is also claiming there is no salvation!? he mixes a lot of claims TOGETHER based on his idea there is NO HOPE so to speak!? oh wait......maybe if we just obey
    god......god will say.....hmmm that guys not so bad after all!?
    So how do you obey that which has never spoken. This shit just goes in circles. As I have said (before it's offered). Men have "professed" to carry the word of "god" but whether it was for good or self serving reasons, it was just the word of man. Humanity is doomed to blindness if it refuses to open its eyes (but blissful in their ignorance) 🙈🙉🙊

  12. #44
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    i think you mentioned the idea god is personal............ and so speaks to us thru the holy spirit within. all inner speaking is by spirits either voluntarily or involuntarily!? we learn these personal relationships by association!? after birth and perhaps before!?
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  13. #45
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i think you mentioned the idea god is personal............ and so speaks to us thru the holy spirit within. all inner speaking is by spirits either voluntarily or involuntarily!? we learn these personal relationships by association!? after birth and perhaps before!?
    What does "holy" mean. And once again, I have to clarify with regards to a personal god meaning that everyone who subscribes to the concept of "god" has their own personal version of what this may want but never what it actually is. Do I believe in "the Holy Spirit"? Tell me what it is and then I'll tell you if that's believable. I will never accept an assumption as an answer to a question. I would rather leave the question open for further consideration. Too many assumed answers with not a shred of proof causing too much conflict. Who is right? Who is wrong? Is it that important? Too many believers in too many stories and now another one dreaming yet more versions. Madness

  14. #46
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    what is the purpose of descriptions or explanations unless its a filter like a parable that says if you get this you PASS(ON)!?
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  15. #47
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    what is the purpose of descriptions or explanations unless its a filter like a parable that says if you get this you PASS(ON)!?
    Ok. If the moral of the parable is the important part, that's fine, pass it on but when the moral is considered worthless unless it comes from a " higher power" then clarification of what this higher power is becomes necessary. If they make "moral sense" for whatever reason, then one should never detract from that by throwing in that it's gods morals or some krazy spirit. It shouldn't matter who it came from if it makes the required connection. Would not you agree.

  16. #48
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    Re: God's Plans Gone Astray

    I believe my most significant dream about God is what I posted on this thread. It needs repeating.

    Humans make freewill choices to obey or disobey God. I had a dream about God's commandments. It was about white sheets of paper in space with God's moral codes written on them, nearby where dark sheets of paper with human moral codes written on them. The theme of the dream was God's commandments are not acceptable to humans; they rewrite them for their own purpose. Evidently, God will not negotiate His decrees or commandments. In the context of human culture and morality, you might conclude God is a moral dictator; he does not negotiate His holy commandments. If you accept God as perfect, it would follow that his decrees or commandments are not subject to negotiation.

    It is about the human dilemma with God. The OT is a record of humans disobeying God, and it is also a record of humans recording God's commandments. Supposedly, God's commandments were written down by His chosen people. However, we only have their writings, we have no record of the unedited version of God's commandments. I admit to knowing no more or no less than what my dreams have revealed. However, using my intellect, I have made general conclusions based on what I have learned. Because of so much opposition from people, I suspect I am on the right track. I am certain humans would defend their moral codes inasmuch as they are part of human societies. I have encountered clerics, and they are certain of moral edicts from church leaders. We know of course about Jewish holy books and the impact on Jewish culture. It would really be interesting to read those original commandments, the ones from the hand of God.

    Ready everyone, expect foul mouth and insulting remarks from your favorite circus clowns, the ones in the center of the arena blasting away with foul insults and hate God talk. As for my long vacation, I got bored. I really like discussing God. Contrary to many disgruntled people, I don't have a case against God. God is perfect, holy, and eternal. Humans are not.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-17-2017 at 01:13 PM.

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