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Thread: IFFL again

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    15

    IFFL again

    I went through the previous thread on IFFL and I would like to point out a few things. Yes I am a member ( after 2 years of investigation)

    A few corrections are in order.

    Microsoft does not exclusively use their own money to grow their business. They are a publically traded company and therefore recieve funding from outside sources.

    Banks do not LEND money. They create it from thin air ( which is fine when there are controls on the system) Chartered banks in Canada are able to create 20 times their "paid up capital" every year. If ABC bank has a billion dollars in PUC and creates 20 billion in PUC at a 5% return they double their paid up capital base each year minus expenses ( the preponderance of which is covered by service charges ). By the way they all have offshore subsidiaries which make most of their shareholders profits for them. I know the above is an over simplification but accurate for what it's worth.

    IFFL is not a cult. Many of it's members are well educated ( not vocationally trained) in alternative fields of endeavor ( health,finance,spiritual etc) I have noticed that whenever I am in the company of people with an esoteric knowledge base I feel , at least initially , that I am in a cultish environment. Much of this has to do with the fact that the knowledge transfer between these individuals is conveyed by specialised language which is foreign and intimidating. Go to a country farm auction or hang out with a bunch of snowmobile fanatics and you feel exactly the same way if you have little or no knowledge of that which they speak of. Does not make farmers and snowmobile nuts a cult? If you still believe we are a cult .........then I like being in a cult!

    IFFL is not MLM. It's pay structure is similar to a headhunting organization or an insurance company. If it was an MLM it would have swept the planet by now bacause it is that well concieved.

    Milo Brost in not a flake because he changed carreer paths many times. Just because the majority of people are on the " perpetual security treadmill " does not diminish the pursuits of those in search of a higher existence. The bible says " ask,seek,knock " not " condemn, complain and criticise". Those of us in search of something better are forced by circumstance to keep changing paths as we learn. Those on the "treadmill" are not able to understand. There is an old proverb that says " if the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem begins to look like a nail."

    The fact of life is that all of us have been brainwashed and programmed by influences throughout our life. No exceptions. Some of us begin questioning the inconsistencies in this programming ,at some point , and start "choosing" the brainwashing they are willing to recieve. Once this happens you start becoming the driver of the bus and not a passenger. There is a greater responsibility set upon the driver than on the passengers. Boy , those passengers love to tell you how to drive , but they don't want the responsibility of taking the wheel. Once you take that wheel you can never be a passenger again.

    Just because all the information about IFFL isn't forthcoming at the snap of a finger does not mean that they are hiding something. Does your accountant tell you every detail about how he prepares your taxes. No... you TRUST him because he gets results. So does IFFL. Like one fellow said on the other thread. " SHOW ME THE DISATISFIED MEMBERS"!!!. Every scam is eventually brought down from the inside because of dissatisfaction from within. I have met at least 400 members and they are all very happy. Many of them are ex-financial planners. If you want to know, then become a member. Simple.

    I really feel sorry for those of you that cannot see beyond your own prejudices because you will always have less in your life than your potential if you cannot see through them. At some point everything is a leap of faith . Those of you that will not even put out $1712 to get some facts have much bigger issues than IFFL's education can solve. I will talk briefly about this program to people and they will say " I am going to have to think about it". What exactly are they going to think about if they don't know anything yet. Sounds like Homer Simpson examining his thoughts..............." I want some peanuts".

    Here are some things to think about.


    IFFL is real until you can prove otherwise.The proof is in joining.

    Oil is NOT a fossil fuel. It is an abiotic and is manufactured deep within the earth. Can't sell the "peak oil " theory with that story though.

    Global warming is most likely caused by sun cycles but you can't sell fear with that theory.

    Men have no confidence in themselves anymore and the proof of that is that they won't take any risk that their wives haven't authorised.

    People spend more for stuff to put on the outside of their head than on the inside of their head.

    Nowaday, you MUST examine everything you believe or be swept aside by change.

    Change is the only thing you can really count on.

    A story.

    My neighbor came over and asked if he could borrow my lawnmower and I said " NO..... I am frying an egg right now". He said " what has you frying an egg got to do with me borrowing your lawnmower? " I said " if I don't want to loan you my lawnmower ,any excuse will do".

    What excuse will you use for your life?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    22

    Re: IFFL again

    That's exactly what the Amway guy told me! Almost word for word!

    I do believe that the members are happy. How long will they be happy if the ASC shuts the place down. Freezes assets and all your money is offshore in Milo's accounts. I give that the investments and returns are real. A major issue I see is that IFFL is acting in the furtherance of a trade. That's legal talk. The ASC requires that you have a license to sell securities if you in any way act in furtherance of a trade. They are not teaching! To explain: If I have a website and I list a few of my top stock picks and some one reads my site and buys the stock based on my website, then I have acted as an advisor and need to be licensed. IFFL walks a very thin line here in my opinion. Its kind of like I convince you to buy something. I do everything required to make the purchase but ask you to hit the enter key on my keyboard. Now I can tell the regulators that you made the purchase. I only taught you how to buy it! Yeah ... right. I don't think they would buy that.

    Doesn't it seem strange to you that his recommendations are owned by or run by himself or a cronie? I attended a meeting the other night and attempted to have an investment discussion with a few of the "members" and the presenter. It was difficult as many of them had no idea what investing is all about. Simple terms like asset allocation, diversification, risk, credit ratings seemed foreign to them. I was the only one at the meeting wearing a tie. Not that its necessary but the crowd was more of a sweatpants and jeans kind of group that sat on the edge of their chair in eager anticipation of the speakers next words which they have probably heard a dozen times already. I was in a room full of greedy suckers. One fella sold his farm and put every dollar in. From the ASC website that average Alberta investor is in for around $130k. Either these people are very wealthy or they are not diversified. I hope for your sake and all the other investors that they don't lose everything. Milo could just end up rooming with Boaz Manor out in Israel. Investments can and do explode. There are no guarantees. That's why due diligence is important. I've done mine.

    No offense to you personally targa2 but the presenter just came across as slimy. He dissed every financial company and profession. Then, when he found out I was a stock broker and financial planner ... and after I pointed out a few of his false statements he acted like an ignorant jerk. When I asked for some information to take home with me he told me I could not have any unless I came up with $1700. I'm sorry buy slimy and unprofessional are too kind.

    He dissed ... and the members ... and any MLM'er will diss the whole working till 65 and retire thing. He scolded us for having the work till 65 attitude. We should be retiring in 7 years and live a life of luxury. This guy is 69, still working and says he loves it. Practice what you preach dude. Then after telling us to invest all of our money with Milo offshore (sshh!! don't tell your accountant) he announced that he is buying gold coins and putting them in his mattress! (OK ... I exaggerated the mattress part) I will admit that gold may be a good idea right now for a portion of your portfolio but I don't see it as a buy and hold forever deal. Historically gold follows inflation. You know the old saying "an once of gold will buy you a good suit". The members I spoke with didn't know the history of gold, or copper or zinc but were gung ho about buying precious metals. A wise man named Warren Buffet is famous for advising people to buy what you know and understand. With IFFL I don't know and I don't understand.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2

    Tax man knocking on door.

    Tax man is knocking on door of Institute salesman, William L Nelson
    See thread at Alabama board
    http://alabamaagainstfraud.com/phpBB....php?p=706#706

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    8

    Re: IFFL again

    'Microsoft does not exclusively use their own money to grow their business. They are a publically traded company and therefore recieve funding from outside sources.'

    Banks do not LEND money. They create it from thin air ( which is fine when there are controls on the system).... ...'By the way they all have offshore subsidiaries which make most of their shareholders profits for them. I know the above is an over simplification but accurate for what it's worth. '

    I don't know nor care about IFFL, but it is obvious Targa you have zero concept of raising capital by banks, Tier I capital requirements by banks, and lastly offshore profit generation by banks.

    1. Capital raising by Banks: All larger banks raise capital in same way other corporations do (called ALM or Asset Liability Management by banks), they issue debt of various maturies, issue Equity and preferred stock (usually non-redeemable by the holder), and lastly like all other company's via their retainted earnings. The major difference between banks and a corporation that manufactures a product is that a bank will take and 'hold' customers money which is an accounting liability to the bank though it effectively lowers the cost of the bank to lend to other company's.

    2. Tier I Capital Requirements: Any major bank worth its name has Tier I Capital that exceeds 6%, and is usually at or near 7%. Though the requirements is 4% under BIS rules, individual government regulators will usually have requirements of excess reserve capital if a bank has overseas operations within their juristiction.

    3. Offshore Profit Generation: Though certain subsidiaries of large banks will have offshore operating enties in tax advantaged areas, profitability generated in each area is taxed according to the rules of that government, with potential legal offsets or legal specific economic agreements that also have tax advantages.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    15

    Re: IFFL again

    Hi ajm184. I am a Canadian so don't confuse your Fed Res banking practices for ours. In 1991 the reserve requirements for Canadian chartered banks were reduced to ZERO. A Canadian chartered bank is allowed to lend/create up to 20 times its "paid up capital" in a calender year. Several years ago CIBC had 1170 branches of which 42 were in the Carribean. The 42 in the Carribean made 70% of its shareholders profits. I am not complaining because I use some of their tactics to my advantage as well. My only complaint is that the banks can leverage their assets 20 to 1 and I can leverage mine 3 to 1 according to the banks' guidelines. When do I get to play their game?

    What do you mean by "raise capital" when referring to banks. When a bank "loans" money it is implied that they are loaning out depositors money which is not the case. When a "loan " is issued the money comes into existence the very minute the application is signed. This is new money that did not exist seconds earlier. I did not learn this from IFFL ,I learned it from Paul Hellyer who was our finance minister and has studied the national and world banking system for 50 years. He is 82 years old and has probably forgotten more about banking and currency than most of us know.

    Are you denying that your system is much different? As I understand it your reserve requirements are .03% for certain loans and zero for all the rest.

    Banks and corporations also do stock "trades" within thier framework that would be considered loans by public standards but under the banking regs' they are determined to be trades so they are a non-taxable event. For the rest of us we don't get to play legal word magic to avoid being taxed on these transactions. These "trades" increase their paid up capital base so they can manipulate ther base and "create" more money.

    No, I do not remember all the banker jargon for these concepts but I know a hell of a lot more than zero about banking. I am a consumate student of all things to do with money. I belong to the Canadian Action political party whose primary platform is banking and montary reform. Many of our staff are banking officials and former members of larger political parties some of whom served the finance minister.

    My brother in law was a bank manager for 22 years and says I know more about the monetary system than anyone else he knows.

    So here's a question for you if you are so educated.

    Tell me how your 12 district Fed Res system and it's relationship to the street level banks differs from The Bank of Canada/ chartered bank system here in Canada?

  6. #6
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    Nov 2005
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    15

    Re: IFFL again

    Hey there Bob Loblaw. I have heard some presenters diss the mainstream as well and I don't care for it. Mind you when I see fund managers making $192,000,000 salary and there fund is underperforming the TSX average I can't imagine how anyone could want to dissent. When you see CIBC paying 2.4 billion to stay out of court for the Enron fiasco you see why we like to point fingers. J.P. Morgan might go down for 3 times that much over Enron.
    Don't mistake criticism of the system at large for criticism of the smaller players in the financial industry. Most financial planners I know drive rickety cars and and have no time to themselves. I pitty them because I know how hard and stressful their job is. I also see them leaving their jobs to work with us pretty often.

    I'm sure it's OK for the ASC to sit around criticising IFFL ,and one would assume ( incorrectly ) that they always follow the rules. The Alberta Sec Comm is currently under investigation for some improprieties themselves. Look it up for yourself.

    Yes we walk a fine line but we are still on this side of it. There's a difference between selling securities and telling a peer member what worked for yourself. I know some of those reading this whom are unfamiliar with certain aspects of law will say that's nitpicking but the law is very specific about what it says and does not say. We employ some very experienced legal advisors to direct us on these issues.

    By the way , what the hell has your tie got to do with anything. I know some farmers who have more money then god who would never wear a tie. I never wear one to meetings cause it feels pretentious to me. I dress just a little better than I expect my guests to dress. I call that tactful and artful salesmanship. If I was presenting to people who wear suits and ties I would dress accordingly.

    Oh Yah..... London Life is apparently being sued for their Freedom 55 ad campaign. I have no axe to grind with working till 65 I just hate the idea that I have to because the system is designed that way.

    It occured to me the other day that, while these type of boards can be a useful tool , they tend attract people who seem to be looking for something to be wrong with everything ( I'm not pointing at you Bob). Those who are uneducated enough to fall for a scam are going to do it regardless of what is said in this forum and defenders of Ponzi schemes don't seem to care if it's illegal as long as they get paid. I'm sorry your experience with an IFFL presentation was negative Bob. I can't defend every presenter. They are all unique. I know that the ones I work with are good people of integrity and I really enjoy there company and there philosophy about life.

    I don't talk to people about getting rich because I don't think that's what we are about. What I see is an opportunity to create a slightly better version of what people are already shooting for a little bit earlier. We are not some MLM scheme that promisses riches for an $80 starter kit ,although I have seen some people work hard and make very big money with MLM.

    It is a shame that people cannot see the "cracks" in the system we live in every day and dissent against that instead of tearing down something like IFFL that tries to create a platform for people to have something a little better. Why aren't we bashing CIBC for their connection to Enron on this board? Why haven't we all gone and pulled our accounts and made a point about integrity with them. These are serious question that have a deeper meaning than most are willing to look at. What about soem of the mutual fund companies ( which I won't name ) that are under investigation for some serious breaches of law. Will we pull out of those and go down the road.

    Of couse we won't because they are listed on the stock exchange and have ads in the local papers which somehow miraculously makes them above serious criticism. If IFFL was listed publically tomorrow and paid 8% in a dividend fund people would line up like robots to buy in. I mean seriously... have we all lost our friggin minds. It would be humourous to watch the antics of the general public lemming act if it weren't so sad to see the results.

    We have been so conditioned to reject anything that does not fit in a certain set of parameters that we balk whenever something doesn't "quack like a duck". The reason IFFL does not quack like a duck is cause it ain't a duck.

    My mother still says I should have went to work for GM cause I would get a pension. How can she be so sure of that? Does she have a crystal ball?

  7. #7

    Re: IFFL again

    Targa2, your point of view is thorough and you raise good points.

    I would love to toss $70,000 into IFFL. I would be able to retire as soon as the monthly payouts started.

    But Targa2, you have to be aware that the ASC has halted trading on one of the main stocks that IFFL uses to generate their large payouts. There is no immediate end in site to this halt in trading. There has been a statement issued that the investors involved with IFFL will have the chance to rescind their agreements. This may have already happened, but not as far as I can tell.

    The whole set up would be a true gift for so many people if it is actually maintainable. I don't know that it is currently so.

    Thanks for your input on this unusual company.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    15

    Re: IFFL again

    Because you are not an IFFL member I cannot tell you what I would like to Followmeout. This is a temporary setback and I know exactly what you are referring to. It will get solved shortly as it has in the past. Watch and see. I will let time prove my point and not my words.

    Anything that is honest in it's intention and follows the letter of the law is sustainable. We are both.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
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    Re: IFFL again

    Your points are well taken Targa2. I wish you and your members well. I do regret my tie comment as I did not mean to offend. Many of my clients are farmers and will admit to dressing down when I go to the farm. I will also admit to being skeptical prior to attending the meeting. The fella that invited me is well known around town as someone who jumps on every bandwagon that comes through town from health products to air cleaners and now he's on a mission for IFFL. He asked for my opinion as a "mainstream" stock broker /financial planner. My caution is less a function of the base investments than is the fact that is appears it is a one man show.
    Bob- over the hill but under the speed limit

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    15

    Re: IFFL again

    Hunter. I went back and read that post again from the Vancouver Sun. Let's clear a few things up.

    In standard " trying to create some sizzle for the reader " style the columnist stoops to the usual antics.

    He tries to create guilt by association. The first case which he does so he lumps Nick Thill ,Micheal Ruge and Milo Brost into the same category by showing all three as presenters for the same organization run by T Harv Eker. This is tantamount to calling the Red Cross communists because they are share the same office building as the Communist Party of America.

    The three presenters are independent of each other but David has cleverly made it appear that they are somehow linked.

    He does so a second time by implying that Alex Muljiani's and Eldon Warman's beliefs about the tax system in Canada are the same as IFFL's beliefs. Just because Alex is a representative of IFFL does not imply that they have the exact same belief system.This is implying that the individual represents the whole when in fact it does not ,any more than the tail wags the dog. Last time I checked the majority of Canadians hate the tax system. Muljiani and Warman just happened to do something about it.Alex also stopped promoting his tax course 4 years ago.

    David attempts to make another loose connection by reporting that Detax Canada sells "prime bank debenture schemes". So what has this got to do with IFFL??????

    Here's how he does it again.... follow along. He connects T Harv Eker to Milo to Muljiani to Eldon to Prime bank schemes etc etc etc. All of a sudden they are magically "one in the same" including all of their past and present major and minor beliefs and improprieties. Nice try jackass. A couple of Google searches and the guy is now an expert on what all of these people know and do.

    It's this kind of cut and paste reporting that makes an intelligent person ill. Exactly why I never read a paper or watch the news. It's primarily sensationalist bull___t.

    Hers some news that should make you suspicious.

    A LARGE NUMBER OF THE NAZI SCIENTISTS WERE BROUGHT INTO THE UNITED STATES AFTER WW2 UNDER A C.I.A. "OP" CALLED " OPERATION PAPERCLIP"

    Do you trust your government? Maybe we should be paranoid about what they are doing while we sleep!

  11. #11

    Re: IFFL again

    Quote Originally Posted by Targa2
    Because you are not an IFFL member I cannot tell you what I would like to Followmeout. This is a temporary setback and I know exactly what you are referring to. It will get solved shortly as it has in the past. Watch and see. I will let time prove my point and not my words.

    Anything that is honest in it's intention and follows the letter of the law is sustainable. We are both.
    Targa2, I am definitely watching everyday. So far I see no solution even possible until at least May 2006.

    Followmeout

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    15

    Re: IFFL again

    To Bob. No offence taken. People should be sceptical.Thats the cautionary necessity to keep people from making dumb mistakes as I have in the past. (ie. bank debenture schemes.... how stupid was I then.) However, caution should be used to ALERT not AVOID. It should put the person on notice to investigate fully. If something sounds too good to be true it usually is, but not always. If it is indeed too good to be true it should also be fairly simple to dicredit it's legitimacy. I spent 2 years trying to find the cracks in IFFL and could not. I lost $35,000 in a prime bank scam in 1999 / 2000 so I had some serious questions to ask.

    To Followmeout. I predict that this current issue will be resolved by the end of January at the latest. This is not the first occassion this has happened and we are not the cause of it. Every time we have a challenge like this we get better on the other side of it. Hang in there and keep watching.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    22

    Re: IFFL again

    Quote Originally Posted by Targa2
    To Followmeout. I predict that this current issue will be resolved by the end of January at the latest. This is not the first occassion this has happened and we are not the cause of it. Every time we have a challenge like this we get better on the other side of it. Hang in there and keep watching.
    That's interesting. How is this going to be resolved in January, when the securities commission has the entire month of May set aside for a hearing regarding Capital Alternatives, and a number of individuals (including King Milo).

    Are you telling us that all the alegations made by the ASC are false? They have a long, long list of concerns, many of which stem from outright lies told by the people involved.

    As a previous poster said "If the IFFL people will lie to rev. Canada, the ASC, and others, what makes people think that they are telling their "members" the whole truth?"

    I will be watching to see how this hearing comes out, can't wait.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    15

    Re: IFFL again

    Here's the interesting thing about people. Those who haven't got the courage to step out and do something different will always line up for a witch hunt. It's not really a question of whether or not some wrong was done here. What occurs to me is that the tone of your message suggests that you just want to see someone burn at the stake simply because they came up with something you weren't smart enough or courageous enough to think of. Shame on you. Problem is ....it's tough to learn anything when you are busy pointing fingers. Finger pointers think they already know everything don't they.

    It reminds me of when I was in MLM. People would call us a cult because we would cheer for the simple accomplishments of ordinary people at weekly meetings. Sure it was made up phony enthusiasm, but we all knew that ,so it was fun putting on the act. What is really amazing to me is that the same critics of this display would go to a hockey game and cheer until their voice was hoarse for some lunkheads they don't even know.

    Organized sports must be a cult.... have you seen the way the fans act?

    The problem in the world of the "status quo" is that innovation is dangerous to the hegemony of the "powers that be." Do you think for a minute that CRA and ASC and all the rest of the alphabet soup gang really serve the interests of "little old you and me". Boy ... I wish I was still that naive. One day you will come to realize that these institutions serve only the power brokers responsible for their inception.. They were established to maintain the systems that serve the elite or they were corrupted to serve that purpose somewhere along the line. Period.

    Do some reading for gods sake. Start with these.


    1) The Architecture of Modern Political Power. ( google it )

    2) Imperium ( google it )

    3)Tragedy and Hope. ( written by Bill Clintons' mentor )

    These are over a 1000 pages each so I will talk to you again in a year or so.

    PS. A little tidbit to illustrate my point. The IRS was caught sending out bogus " notices of assesment" for small amounts to see how many people would pay them without complaint. It seems that a large number of respondents paid the amounts ( usualy in the $2000-$3000 range) without so much as a single question . They ascertained that most people would rather pay the amout without questioning it than get into a confrontation with "the beast". Several thousand such assesments were sent. Uh hu .....we're free.

    Oh yah.....I'm not going to bother answering your question cause I already said I would let time prove my point.
    Last edited by Targa2; 12-20-2005 at 02:46 AM.

  15. #15

    Re: IFFL again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
    The fella that invited me is well known around town as someone who jumps on every bandwagon that comes through town from health products to air cleaners and now he's on a mission for IFFL.
    I have long since been known in my family as the one who jumps on every bandwagon that comes around, and IFFL is my latest scheme and dream. My bandwagon jumping all these years has been worth it. My net worth is solid and increasing daily. My friends talk down about my risk taking ventures and my stock market trading, but risking and losing and then learning to control risk are exciting and revitalizing features of my life. I have more and more options in my life as I get older. I will be taking on the forex market next.

    I see this thread has died. I would love to see IFFL be something that I could safely park some of my funds into while I continue to grow the rest of my portfolio. IFFL's setup would allow me to retire and manage the rest of my money full time.

    But alas, as eager as I am for the next great scheme, this one screams trouble. Targa2, there is no way you could have investigated this for 2 years and found something solid. I'm not even a member and I see potholes so big that there is no way around them, you'll crack your axle for sure in this one! And my objections have nothing to do with ASC and their allegations.

    I have tremendously enjoyed the antics and energy of the strategist who did his best to sign me up. At one point, my pen almost hit the signature line! But there were just a few things that didn't make sense to me, and one more day of internet investigation blew the entire thing out of the water for me, for now.

    I will be watching anxiously at the end of January for the halt order to be lifted. If by some miracle that happens, I will then look for a strategist who can answer an intelligent question and drop the sales hype for 5 minutes! My current strategist cannot.

    I don't believe that paying $1710 would provide me with the information needed to make a sound decision. I think that would only give me the names of the companies involved, and I already have those names. The internet tells the rest of the story.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    1

    Re: IFFL again

    I have also been in this for over a year, and YES it is for real. No scam

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