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  1. #1
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    Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    What do you all think? Is this man telling the truth or are his teachings a fraud? Looking forward to all your comments.

  2. #2
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    I never heard of him. I'll take a look at him, but from the entries on google, he appears to be a fruitcake of some kind.

  3. #3
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Well, he is a prolific writer. I can see why some people would call him a fruitcake, he doesn't mince any words. I'll have to read alot more before I can make any judgment of my own but it is very interesting.

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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Ysne,

    Thanks for your replys to my posts.

    listeningone

  5. #5
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    I like some of what he has to say, he is so prolific that I don't really have time to read all of it. I think we all need to form our own opinions though.

  6. #6
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    didn't see anything on the book of JOB over there.........sorta the accims razor for me!!LO, that aint you complex,is it!?:eek: :p :rolleyes:
    Last edited by lexx; 11-16-2005 at 07:55 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Lexx,

    If you want some thoughts on the book of JOB, look on the main page of the website under The "Lake of Fire" Series and click on the link for the article under 16. A. He sights some scriptures from the book of JOB there.
    Last edited by listeningone; 11-17-2005 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Name addresed is wrong.

  8. #8
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Never heard of the guy, Lexx. Then again, people keep telling me about all kinds of theological 'isms' that are spreading like wildfire that I've never heard of.

    Being a part-time theologian obviously puts me in the wrong circles. I'm strangely okay about that :)

  9. #9
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    I went. I looked. He is a Christian crackpot, and his ideas of what constitute the Hebrew language are...eccentric.

    Lexx, you owe me for that one :p

    Yeesh!

  10. #10
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    ComplexKid,

    I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to Christian theology I'm quite ignorant. That's why I opened this discussion. Trying to learn the truth here. And yes, I'm willing to do some of the research myself. I'd like to read more about what you mean by, "He is a Christian crackpot, and his ideas of what constitute the Hebrew language are...eccentric." Particularly what you mean by,"... his ideas of what constitute the Hebrew language are...eccentric." Care to give me a good reference book on the Hebrew language with an English translation that you feel is accurate. Obviously you feel his reference isn't accurate. Whatever that may be. I can't find his reference for the Hebrew language on his website.

  11. #11
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    It would take pages and pages to go through all of it, and I'm not that fanatic. You might want to ask him how he comes up with the concept of 'nahash' (serpent, my computer doesn't speak Hebrew, so that's a transliteration) being in any way, shape, or form related to the word satawn or shatawn (satan, which means 'obstacle' in Hebrew), which doesn't show up until the story of Bilaam and his ass in the Book of Numbers, just for a start. There isn't a satan in Genesis, in other words. Just a serpent. Who gets cursed--not made powerful, and you can see that if you just read the plain text in English.

    The site is full of anti-semitic drivel, and he seems to have taken a really simplistic Calvinism (predestination) to new depths--I can't speak fully to the nuances of Calvinism, but there's probably a Christian here who can. It isn't the only theology on the block, and this guy I think is going overboard even if he is taking a calvinst stance. I can't fully comment on the koine Greek, but I can't find anything in the Christian bible that utterly negates free will, and this guy says there ain't no such thing as free will. That seems to be his big theological 'point'. Fairly depressing stuff.

    For a Jewish bible, I'd probably try either Aryeh Kaplan's 'Living Torah' series, or the most recent edition of the Judaica Press Tanach.

    If you mean learning Hebrew, I'm reviewing some softwares and books now but can probably find some links for you if you're interested.

    The Greek Testament was written in Greek, and that I can't help you with much except for a few things that are obviously late interpolations, like the Pericope Adulterae and a few other blatant 'errors or hasty rewrites'. I'm not a Christian, and don't go too far down that road, at least in a scholarly sense.

    As beliefs go, we're all free to believe what we want, of course, but what he's pushing seems to have pretty much no scriptural basis, and in the places where we've got a secular history (like the Pharisees--check them out in the Wikipedia, then check his site) that's fairly reliable, he's contradicting that.

    At the end of the day we all have our quirks I guess.
    Last edited by ComplexKid; 11-18-2005 at 10:06 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Complexkid,

    Thanks for the reply. It's most appreciated.

    It's obvious this guy has his own beliefs and an agenda to have others believe as he does. I think we all have to remember that when reading or listening to someone's interpretation of a religious text. I try to keep am open mind about what I read and listen to in that regard. Of course even I'm guilty of filtering what I read and listen to based on my own beliefs. So, I guess we're all quirky in that way.

    And I completely agree that we all have the free will to believe what we want to. I haven't read all he has to say on that subject, but I'm quite sure I will not believe all of his arguments that we don't have free will.

  13. #13
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    hello,

    I think he is telling the truth.

    someone said "He is a Christian crackpot" He isnt a Christian, neither am I. He and I both are Believers in Christ.

    someone said "I can't find his reference for the Hebrew language on his website." He uses many lexicons, and concordances. All you need is a greek and hebrew lexicon to find the meanings of many different words. he has a new article on his site that explains called "which bible translation is the best"

    someone said "but what he's pushing seems to have pretty much no scriptural basis" maybe read his articles to see if there is scriptual basis for what he writes. The lake of fire article is very long but FULL of scriptures. I cant seem to figure out how anyone could miss this.

    someone said"I will not believe all of his arguments that we don't have free will." why didnt you read what he said about supposed freewill.

    someone said "but I can't find anything in the Christian bible that utterly negates free will, and this guy says there ain't no such thing as free will. That seems to be his big theological 'point'. Fairly depressing stuff." I can find several scriptures showing that people who THOUGHT they had freewill actually dont. Plus there is NO proof that freewill exsists. Think about it, free being free from outside causes. is anything really free from outside causes? Freewill is a unproven theory.
    God be with us
    david

    http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/

  14. #14
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Bowl, I don't deal in biblical translations as a rule, I just read it in Hebrew. As for his beliefs about Christianity or 'believers in Christ' if you will, he still sounds pretty over-the-edge. Granted, anti-semitism is a Christian belief (or a belief of believers in Christ, or at least something prominent in the GT), but he isn't just saying that the Jews are evil and carnal (and as a disbeliever in Christ I absolutely disagree with him on that one), he's saying all sorts of other things that do not square with either scripture or history.

    If you believe that way and it makes you happy, that's fine. But his interpretations are pretty eccentric, and many have no scriptural basis.

    Some stuff about sin and free will (translated)

    Did Cain have to kill Abel?

    Gen 4:6 God said to Cain, 'Why are you so furious? Why are you depressed?
    4:7 If you do good, will there not be special privilege? And if you do not do good, sin is crouching at the door. It lusts after you, but you can dominate it.'

    On keeping the Torah

    Deut 30:11 This mandate that I am prescribing to you today is not too mysterious or remote from you.
    30:12 It is not in heaven, so [that you should] say, 'Who shall go up to heaven and bring it to us so that we can hear it and keep it?
    30:13 It is not over the sea so [that you should] say, 'Who will cross the sea and get if for us, so that we will be able to hear it and keep it?'
    30:14 It is something that is very close to you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can keep it.
    30:15 See! Today I have set before you [a free choice] between life and good [on one side], and death and evil [on the other].

    These would seem to indicate choice of some sort, no?

  15. #15
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    yes, i agree that we make choices. But none are free from outside causes. basically GOD knows what were going to choose.

    GOD be with you
    david

  16. #16
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    Re: Truth or Fiction? L.Ray Smith bible-truths.com

    Quote Originally Posted by bowlbyx
    yes, i agree that we make choices. But none are free from outside causes. basically GOD knows what were going to choose.

    GOD be with you
    david
    can the lost choose!?without help!?can a society survive without mercy!?why was the christ "necessary" for man!?explain so even unbelievers will get it!hehe!!meanwhile i'm goin over to check out your site!maybe i'll learn somethin.gain the understanding(of atlas)!hehe!
    Last edited by lexx; 01-06-2006 at 02:09 PM.

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