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  1. #1
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    Caught out by human perspective

    I think a good way to realise just how much of the Bible was made up by man without God's influence is to look at judgements based on common misbeliefs of the time.

    Now, firstly, I'm not saying God didn't tell Noah the world was flooding, Noah didn't necessarily need to know it wasn't the entire world and God may have had His reasons for saying that instead of the truth, but maybe not as well.

    The theory I've always favoured is that the Euphrates and Tigris rivers overflowed to the extent that they joined in the middle, and considering the limited forms of communication available back then it would have seemed like the whole world to them.

    This can also be used for another point, that the Bible is meant to be taken loosely, not literally.
    For example, I don't think Genesis was ever meant to be scientifically accurate.
    God could've created the Big Bang and everything that followed, but instead of explaining this to a people who had absolutely no understanding of astrophysics He may have just given the abbreviated "7 day version".
    People of the time would've never been able to understand an explanation of the complex details.

    This doesn't mean the stories aren't true in part, and the conclusions people draw after reading the stories don't need to necessarily change, but I think that if more people realised or just thought about the possibility that the Bible isn't an 100% accurate record of history and even that some of it may be coming directly from other past religions, there wouldn't be so many "fundamentalist" mistakes and silly justifications for wars.

    Anyways, there's some thoughts, where's all yours? =)

  2. #2
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    Re: Caught out my human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    I think a good way to realise just how much of the Bible was made up by man without God's influence is to look at judgements based on common misbeliefs of the time.

    Now, firstly, I'm not saying God didn't tell Noah the world was flooding, Noah didn't necessarily need to know it wasn't the entire world and God may have had His reasons for saying that instead of the truth, but maybe not as well.

    The theory I've always favoured is that the Euphrates and Tigris rivers overflowed to the extent that they joined in the middle, and considering the limited forms of communication available back then it would have seemed like the whole world to them.

    This can also be used for another point, that the Bible is meant to be taken loosely, not literally.
    For example, I don't think Genesis was ever meant to be scientifically accurate.
    God could've created the Big Bang and everything that followed, but instead of explaining this to a people who had absolutely no understanding of astrophysics He may have just given the abbreviated "7 day version".
    People of the time would've never been able to understand an explanation of the complex details.

    This doesn't mean the stories aren't true in part, and the conclusions people draw after reading the stories don't need to necessarily change, but I think that if more people realised or just thought about the possibility that the Bible isn't an 100% accurate record of history and even that some of it may be coming directly from other past religions, there wouldn't be so many "fundamentalist" mistakes and silly justifications for wars.

    Anyways, there's some thoughts, where's all yours? =)
    like "good on you"..is "caught out" another catch phrase(pun!)!?caught outa what!?netted by your human perspective!?and what you are saying has merit!but the fact you are saying it is of no effect or the wrong effect to those who justify their actions for war or whatever.to ask is to be weak!!(to those who rule by force)
    the bible being itself a translation down to common terms(of the times) has both the possibility of misunderstanding and understanding.but you said it youself.human perspective.and by definition(bible)the human perspective is up for grabs.(corrupted!?)the christ is meant(sent) to represent(present) the uncorrupted perspective for man.
    the question you have posed to me is are fundamentalists beyond assimilation.(resistance is futile)what do they represent!?what are they really fighting for!?even if they dont "get it" according to the whoever if we accept the fact that a higher power runs it all then what is their ignorant purpose!?if indeed it is ignorant!?what is the western modern world selling that they arn't buying and who is responsible to translate it for them!?is absorption a time related issue!?are there pressures to speed it up!?why is force necessary!?is this a sign of superior intelligence!?or is the real story about something else.ignorance itself.the superior ignorance must eliminate the inferior ignorance.how can the supernatural ever be discovered if the natural is taken as real(for granted).and what is the simple definition of the natural.the struggle for survival!?and when agreed upon how soon does it escalate to the struggle to keep/gain the perks!?does success(cooperative) breed contempt!?if history is both a good and bad teacher is not the real issue the mind that perceives one way or another!?so if it comes down to each man's mind.then the question is.......what is "mind" for man.i define mind as....do as your told.all men are simply doing as their told.(by their mind).their choice(known or not) to follow orders.and familiar orders are the easiest to like and even enjoy.and familiariety breeds contempt!?like minds agree..unlike minds do not!?and what are agreement and disagreement about!?for unless there is a fundamental thread of acceptance that supersedes all disagreements then what is the result for mankind!?and how is this fundamental thread of agreement expressed that overides any misunderstanding!?i would call it goodwill!!the goodwill of the good samaritan.and check out luke 16. :eek: :D :rolleyes:

  3. #3
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    I agree SubJunk. There is another aspect that has often puzzled me as well. I have had discussions with yeccies regarding all sorts of dodgey scientific theories they have thrown up to explain how the universe could have been created only 6000 years ago. They come up with theories on radiation has changed over years, the speed of light has slowed down, continents drift faster than we think etc. etc. etc. A few of these make absolutely no sense at all - the rest are even worse.

    Now what I don't understand is why they don't just say God made the universe to appear old?

    I say 'I can observe light from a star that is x distance away. Since light travels at a finite speed I can conlude that that light has been travelling for y amount of years so the universe must be at least that old.
    They say 'Well obviously the speed of light has changed over the years.' When this is debunked in its most simple form it gets more and more complex and more and more outrageously wrong.
    Why don't they say 'God created that ray of light 6000 years ago and put it halfway between you and the star.'
    or 'God put the continents where they are, but he put lots of evidence around to suggest that they had been moving.' instead of saying 'You are wrong, Gondwana broke up 6000 years ago (despite this requiring continental drift of several kilometers per year).'
    etc.

    You get my point. I really am curious about this. Of course, if they did say that there would be no scientific way to disprove them, and religion and science could remain seperate. In fact, they could consider science to be a religious study, because we would be studying the 'evidence' that god had left for us. I don't know, maybe they just want an argument.

  4. #4
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza
    I agree SubJunk. There is another aspect that has often puzzled me as well. I have had discussions with yeccies regarding all sorts of dodgey scientific theories they have thrown up to explain how the universe could have been created only 6000 years ago. They come up with theories on radiation has changed over years, the speed of light has slowed down, continents drift faster than we think etc. etc. etc. A few of these make absolutely no sense at all - the rest are even worse.

    Now what I don't understand is why they don't just say God made the universe to appear old?

    I say 'I can observe light from a star that is x distance away. Since light travels at a finite speed I can conlude that that light has been travelling for y amount of years so the universe must be at least that old.
    They say 'Well obviously the speed of light has changed over the years.' When this is debunked in its most simple form it gets more and more complex and more and more outrageously wrong.
    Why don't they say 'God created that ray of light 6000 years ago and put it halfway between you and the star.'
    or 'God put the continents where they are, but he put lots of evidence around to suggest that they had been moving.' instead of saying 'You are wrong, Gondwana broke up 6000 years ago (despite this requiring continental drift of several kilometers per year).'
    etc.

    You get my point. I really am curious about this. Of course, if they did say that there would be no scientific way to disprove them, and religion and science could remain seperate. In fact, they could consider science to be a religious study, because we would be studying the 'evidence' that god had left for us. I don't know, maybe they just want an argument.

    you dont get it!?it's up to the followers to come up with the god made the universe "look" old!!it's groupy fill in thing!!you see it all the time in any discipline.and by the way,they have already done it!!filled in the blanks themselves!!and ever hear of "the hook" applied to the songs in the music industry!?fishers of men has many meanings!! :eek: :D :rolleyes:

  5. #5
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    you dont get it!?it's up to the followers to come up with the god made the universe "look" old!!it's groupy fill in thing!!you see it all the time in any discipline.and by the way,they have already done it!!filled in the blanks themselves!!and ever hear of "the hook" applied to the songs in the music industry!?fishers of men has many meanings!! :eek: :D :rolleyes:

    UH!! Does Lexx ever talk in English!! :p

    Ha Ha!

  6. #6
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by HillbillyHunny
    UH!! Does Lexx ever talk in English!! :p

    Ha Ha!
    never learned english........actually i call it six-pack shorthand...minus the "drawl"!!ok....12 pack!!thought you of all people(hunny)would understand!!or are ya sayin ya do!!:p :D :rolleyes:
    Last edited by lexx; 11-14-2005 at 09:06 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    never learned english........actually i call it six-pack shorthand...minus the "drawl"!!ok....12 pack!!thought you of all people(hunny)would understand!!or are ya sayin ya do!!:p :D :rolleyes:

    Ah! Ha! Thought I'd get a rise outta ya! He! He! :D

  8. #8
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Actually - the word used for day in the 7 days of creation story could have meant a period of time longer than a day -- When you take that into consideration, this version of creation does not exclude the theory of evolution.

  9. #9
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by HillbillyHunny
    Ah! Ha! Thought I'd get a rise outta ya! He! He! :D
    an avatar would help!!till then,it's only mental!! :eek: :rolleyes:

  10. #10
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    hey sub!!you got that "matrix" look!!

  11. #11
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Good point on the length of time that God may have taken to create the earth. They probably were longer (using my feeble wisdom for this thought)
    In Genesis God warned Adam and Eve regarding the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He said that if they ate of the fruit of that tree, in that day they would surely die. Now how long did Adam live? 930 years if I am correct. That is under 1000 years, which some have said is a day in God's eyes. God kept His word on speaking that.

    So, each day of creation could be equivalent to 1000 years in our eyes right? We also have no idea how long it was that Adam and Eve were in the garden before they sinned. So that leaves a gap to fill in.

    Now I can understand why people say the big bang. The Bible says that God did create things just by speaking his word, but we would understand it as an instantaneous thing that happened. God made something out of nothing in essence. Does that jive?

  12. #12
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    If you want to learn about the Big Bang, there are a lot of good books by people like Stephen Hawking to read. It started from a singularity, which is almost nothing, but something all the same.
    If God exists of course he could've created the Big Bang =)
    Hehe lexx these are my new sunglasses, they're great.

    I personally have always thought that most of Genesis was just to explain very complicated things to a very uncomplicated/not-yet-advanced civilisation.
    They'd have just scratched their heads and said "screw this!" if it were to mention science!

  13. #13
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    If you want to learn about the Big Bang, there are a lot of good books by people like Stephen Hawking to read. It started from a singularity, which is almost nothing, but something all the same.
    If God exists of course he could've created the Big Bang =)
    Hehe lexx these are my new sunglasses, they're great.

    I personally have always thought that most of Genesis was just to explain very complicated things to a very uncomplicated/not-yet-advanced civilisation.
    They'd have just scratched their heads and said "screw this!" if it were to mention science!
    what is complicated!?or maybe who is complicated!?is god complicated!? is love complicated!?what is advanced!?what has changed for the better visa-vi human relationships!?for to follow god the supposed ruler of all.....can that be complicated!?is that advanced!?or is it simple and wonderful and unbelievable(even fearful)(to most)(and myself) and how is it done,and is trust in him rather than self reliance,otherwise known as the "system",and where the wind blows and how low can you go and the least of them i know and myself i let go and judge judy i show!!that what is to be is not up to me but mercy my plea for other than thee for who can truly see the place that will eventually be home to all that can call on the one who rules the all and everything hehe!!what do i know..........i aint there yet!!
    :eek: :p :D

  14. #14
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Lexx, you're a poet and didn't know it. hehe :D

  15. #15
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    what is complicated!?or maybe who is complicated!?is god complicated!? is love complicated!?what is advanced!?what has changed for the better visa-vi human relationships!?for to follow god the supposed ruler of all.....can that be complicated!?is that advanced!?or is it simple and wonderful and unbelievable(even fearful)(to most)(and myself) and how is it done,and is trust in him rather than self reliance,otherwise known as the "system",and where the wind blows and how low can you go and the least of them i know and myself i let go and judge judy i show!!that what is to be is not up to me but mercy my plea for other than thee for who can truly see the place that will eventually be home to all that can call on the one who rules the all and everything hehe!!what do i know..........i aint there yet!!
    :eek: :p :D
    What I meant is they were uncomplicated in comparison to what we are now. I suppose they were also uncomplicated in comparison to the Japanese living at the same time and earlier, too.

  16. #16
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    Re: Caught out by human perspective

    what are the differences in complication then and now or whenever or whoever.what do you mean by complication!?less time to contemplate!?or too much to contemplate on!?..........or both!! :eek: :D :rolleyes:
    Last edited by lexx; 11-29-2005 at 08:18 AM.

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