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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005


    Well, what a shock!! If I didn't know it was somehow Bushs fault, I would be upset. See how many of her supporters get on the right side of this...the answer will be "none". Not one of them will dare to say anything against these traitorous activities. When one does, if ever, it may start a landslide of conscience...what shame, what degradation they should feel. But don't worry...it will not happen. This fvck should be put to death for his activities. And the scum who printed his lies without verification should be right there with him. Imagine how the mothers of soldiers felt hearing this creature squeek out his filth.
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    Why did the press swallow Massey's stories?By Ron Harris


    Media outlets throughout the world have reported Jimmy Massey's claims of war crimes, frequently without ever seeking to verify them.

    For instance, no one ever called any of the five journalists who were embedded with Massey's battalion to ask him or her about his claims.

    The Associated Press, which serves more than 8,500 newspaper, radio and television stations worldwide, wrote three stories about Massey, including an interview with him in October about his new book.

    But none of the AP reporters ever called Ravi Nessman, an Associated Press reporter who was embedded with Massey's unit. Nessman wrote more than 30 stories about the unit from the beginning of the war until April 15, after Baghdad had fallen.

    Jack Stokes, a spokesman for the AP, said he didn't know why the reporters didn't talk to Nessman, nor could he explain why the AP ran stories without seeking a response from the Marine Corps. The organization also refused to allow Nessman to be interviewed for this story.

    Some media did seek out comment from the Marine Corps and were told that an investigation of Massey's accusations had found them baseless. Still, those news outlets printed Massey's claims without any evidence other than the word of Massey, who had been released from service because of depression and post traumatic stress disorder.

    "Why would we have run this?"

    That Massey wasn't telling the truth should have become obvious the more he told his stories, said Phillip Dixon, former managing editor of The Philadelphia Inquirer and currently chairman of the Howard University Department of Journalism.

    Dixon examined dozens of newspaper articles in which Massey told of the atrocities that Marines allegedly committed in Iraq.

    "He couldn't keep his story straight," said Dixon, who has also been an editor at The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times. "First it was a 4-year-old girl with a bullet hole in her head, then it was a 6-year-old girl."

    Editors at some papers look back at the Massey articles and are surprised that they ran them without examining whether the claims were true or without ever asking the Marine Corps about them.

    "I'm looking at the story and going, 'Why, why would we have run this without getting another side of the story?'" said Lois Wilson, managing editor of the Star Gazette in Elmira, N.Y.

    David Holwerk, editorial page editor for The Sacramento Bee, said he thought the newspaper handled its story, a question and answer interview with Massey, poorly.

    "I feel fairly confident that we did not subject this to the rigorous scrutiny that we should have or to which we would subject it today," he said.

    Rex Smith, editor of the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union, said he thought the newspaper's story about Massey could have "benefited from some additional reporting." But he didn't necessarily see anything particularly at odds with standard journalism practices.

    The paper printed a story in which Massey reportedly told an audience how he and other Marines killed peaceful demonstrators. There was no response from the Marine Corps or any other evidence to back Massey's claims.

    Smith said that, unfortunately, that is the nature of the newspaper business.

    "You could take any day's newspaper and probably pick out a half dozen or more stories that ought to be subjected to a more rigorous truth test," he said.

    "Yes, it would have been much better if we had the other side. But all I'm saying is that this is unfortunately something that happens every day in our newspapers and with practically every story on television."

    "The truth suffers"

    Michael Parks sees it differently. He is the director of the University of Southern California Annenberg School of Journalism and formerly the editor of the Los Angeles Times. Parks also reviewed stories written about Massey.

    "A reporter's obligation is to check the allegation, to seek comment from the organization that's accused," said Parks, a Pulitzer Prize winner who covered the Vietnam War as a reporter for the Baltimore Sun. "They can't let allegations lie on the table, unchecked or unchallenged. When they don't do that, it's a clear disservice to the reader."

    In many cases, journalists covered Massey as he was speaking at public gatherings. Some reporters said that because he was making public statements, they didn't feel an obligation to check his claims. Some editors worried they could be accused of covering up his claims if they didn't report on his speech.

    Dixon and Parks disagree.

    "We're not stenographers, we're journalists," Dixon said. "What separates journalism from other forms of writing is that we practice the craft of verification. By not doing that, that's saying they're abdicating any responsibility from exercising news judgment."

    Parks said the journalist's responsibilities when covering someone who makes allegations while speaking in a public forum can be different from those when seeking an interview with an accuser.

    "Still, if the person making the allegation has spoken at a public forum, and the audience has heard it, the obligation of the reporter remains to get the other side."

    Dixon said: "As a journalist, you want to put accurate information before the public so they can make opinions and decisions based on accurate information. When something like this happens, harm is done, the truth suffers. "

    [email protected] | 202-298-6880
    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Please...it ain't that hard to figger...the press and their friends LOVE the idea of the American soldier as a monster...they LOVE IT. It is what they live for...any anti-war vet is treated like a king, any war hero who is not anti-war is dirt to them. This guy was the 'belle of the ball'...imagine-one of those "animals" realizing the error of his ways- OMG, the floor would have been slippery. If he would have claimed atrocities by the enemy, there would have been an in-depth investigation. Then, when the allegations were proven true, they would have been buried. If you cannot be arrested and charged for THIS crime, then what WOULD you have to do?
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-09-2005 at 10:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    Next gig for this guy? Scam.com left-leaning editorialist. Rall, Pizzo, and this guy. LOL
    __________________________________________________ _______

    Is Jimmy Massey telling the truth about Iraq?By Ron Harris

    Jimmy Massey former marine staff sergeant says Marines intentionally are killing innocent Iraqi civilians.


    For more than a year, former Marine Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey has been telling anybody who will listen about the atrocities that he and other Marines committed in Iraq.

    In scores of newspaper, magazine and broadcast stories, at a Canadian immigration hearing and in numerous speeches across the country, Massey has told how he and other Marines recklessly, sometimes intentionally, killed dozens of innocent Iraqi civilians.

    Among his claims:

    Marines fired on and killed peaceful Iraqi protesters.

    Americans shot a 4-year-old Iraqi girl in the head.

    A tractor-trailer was filled with the bodies of civilian men, women and children killed by American artillery.

    Massey's claims have gained him celebrity. Last month, Massey's book, "Kill, Kill, Kill," was released in France. His allegations have been reported in nationwide publications such as USA Today, as well as numerous broadcast reports. Earlier this year, he joined the anti-war bus tour of Cindy Sheehan, and he's spoken at Cornell and Syracuse universities, among others.

    News organizations worldwide published or broadcast Massey's claims without any corroboration and in most cases without investigation. Outside of the Marines, almost no one has seriously questioned whether Massey, a 12-year veteran who was honorably discharged, was telling the truth.

    He wasn't.

    Each of his claims is either demonstrably false or exaggerated - according to his fellow Marines, Massey's own admissions, and the five journalists who were embedded with Massey's unit, including a reporter and photographer from the Post-Dispatch and reporters from The Associated Press and The Wall Street Journal.

    "Psychopathic killers"

    Massey, 34, of Waynesville, N.C., was with the 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines based out of Twentynine Palms, Calif. The unit went to the Middle East in January 2003 and participated in the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March of that year.
    Massey was discharged in December 2003, shortly after returning from Iraq due to depression and post-traumatic stress syndrome.
    During a hearing in Canada, Massey said, "We deliberately gunned down people who were civilians."
    The Marine Corps investigated Massey's claims and said they were "unsubstantiated."

    From the beginning, Massey misled reporters.

    In early interviews, he told how he had lost his job at a furniture store because of his anti-war activities. But when asked about the incident in an interview Oct. 19 with the Post-Dispatch, Massey said he had quit his job but never had felt pressure to leave.

    "I left on good terms," he said.

    He also backtracked from allegations he made in a May 2004 radio interview and elsewhere that he had seen a tractor-trailer filled with the bodies of Iraqi civilians when Marines entered an Iraqi military prison outside Baghdad. He said the Iraqis had been killed by American artillery.

    He told listeners that the scene was so bad "that the plasma from the body and skin was decomposing and literally oozing out of the crevices of the tractor-trailer bed."

    He repeated the story in the Post-Dispatch interview. But when told that the newspaper's photographs and eyewitness reports had identified the trailer contents as all men, mostly in uniform, Massey admitted that he had never seen the bodies.

    Instead, he said, he received his information from "intelligence reports." When asked if those reports were official documents, he answered, "No, that's what the other Marines told me."

    Changing stories

    The details of Massey's stories changed repeatedly.

    For example, he almost always told his audiences and interviewers of an event he said he'd never forget: Marines in his unit shooting four civilian Iraqis in red Kia automobile.
    In some accounts, Massey said Marines fired at the vehicle after it failed to stop at a checkpoint. In another version, he said the Marines stormed the car.
    Sometimes he said three of the men were killed immediately while the fourth was wounded and covered in blood; sometimes he said the fourth man was "miraculously unscathed."

    Sometimes he said the Marines left the three men on the side of the road to die without medical treatment while the fourth man exclaimed: "Why did you shoot my brother?"
    There is no evidence that any of the versions occurred.

    In another story that Massey often tells, he and other Marines in his platoon fired upon a group of innocent demonstrators shortly after they arrived in Baghdad. Massey said that the demonstrators were protesting the Marines' presence, holding signs in English and Arabic.

    The Marines heard a shot, Massey said, and in panic began firing into the demonstrators.

    In some versions, the demonstrators were near a checkpoint. In other versions, they were outside a prison on a road about 200 meters away, or anywhere from 5 to 15 miles from Baghdad International Airport.

    Massey told a version of the story before an immigration hearing in December in support of an American soldier trying to flee to Canada. Then, Massey said he and the Marines killed four of the demonstrators. In other interviews, he said the Marines shot at 10 demonstrators and killed all of them but one, whom he let crawl away.

    Lt. Kevin Shea, the commander of Massey's platoon, recalls that on the morning after they arrived, about 20 Iraqis from a nearby community did approach the Marines to ask what was happening. Shea said that he had explained what the Marines were doing and that the Iraqis had gone back to their homes.

    Civilians shot

    The Marine Corps readily admits that some of its men shot civilians, but not intentionally, they said. The Post-Dispatch reported on the second day of the war that Marines in one battalion had mistakenly shot and killed members of a British-based television network while shooting at Iraqi attackers.

    When Marines moved into Baghdad a month later, the Post-Dispatch reported two separate automobile-related incidents in which Marines from Massey's battalion inadvertently shot and wounded 12 civilians. All of the passengers survived after treatment by medical personnel.

    In a fourth incident, Maj. Dan Schmitt said, Marines shot "what we believe to be a non-combatant" because when the Marines raised their arms in a signal to stop, the vehicle continued moving quickly at them.

    An Iraqi doctor who helped treat the wounded passengers told them that they needed to use another hand signal because they one they were using indicated solidarity, not stop.

    But none of the five journalists who covered the battalion said they saw reckless or indiscriminate shooting of civilians by Marines, as Massey has claimed. Nor did any of the Marines or Navy corpsmen who served with Massey and were interviewed for this story.

    One of the checkpoint shootings is apparently the basis for one of most poignant recollections claimed by Massey in numerous speeches and interviews: The shooting of a 4-year-old girl in the head.

    While touring with Sheehan in Montgomery, Ala., he told of seeing the girl's body. "You can't take it back," he said, according to the local newspaper.

    But in the interview with the Post-Dispatch, Massey admitted that he never had seen the girl.

    "Lima Company was involved in a shooting at a checkpoint," he said. "My platoon was ordered to another area before the victims were removed from the car. The other Marines told me that a 4-year-old girl had killed."

    Girls unharmed

    No 4-year-old died in the incident or was even wounded, according to witnesses including a Post-Dispatch photographer at the scene who filed photos of the incident that were published in the newspaper.

    Two women and two girls were in the car that the Marines shot when it failed to stop at a checkpoint and continued to approach the Marines at high speed, said Maj. George Schreffler, then the commanding officer of Lima Company. Schreffler was there at the time.

    Petty Officer Justin Purviance, who treated them, said the two women were wounded but survived. The girls were unharmed, he said.

    In other speeches, Massey has said he personally shot a 6-year-old child. In some versions, the child was a boy; at other times, a girl.

    "How is a 6-year-old child with a bullet in his head a terrorist, because that is the youngest I killed," Massey told a Cornell University audience in March. In a speech in April in Springfield, Vt., he said: "That's war: a 6-year-old girl with a bullet hole in her head at an American checkpoint."

    In a speech in Syracuse in March, the Post Standard newspaper quoted him as saying, "The reason the Marines teach you discipline . . . is so that you can confront the enemy and kill him. . . . Or so you can put a bullet into a 6-year-old, which is what I did. "

    In the interview with the Post-Dispatch, Massey said he never personally had shot a child.

    "I meant that's what my unit did," he said.

    He could not provide details.

    Nor could he name any Marine who could corroborate any of his stories.

    "Admitting guilt is a hard thing to do," he said.

    __________________________________________________ __________

    How many dead US soldiers will this guy be personally responsible for?
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-09-2005 at 10:13 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2005
    SW United States

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    The question I bet the media doesn't pursue is "Who told Massey to say these things?" They will sweep this under the rug because the answer will surely make the left look bad, and we all know the liberal media would never let that happen.

    I seem to remember a certain white house reporters question that the media pursued vigorously, because they thought it was a planted question. But that would have made the republicans look bad, so that got top priority.


  4. #4
    umdkook Guest

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    yo shut up about the left you two----get a new punchline.

    the media loves to pursue these stories becuase of people like YOU who scour the internet and TV looking or articles like this.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by umdkook
    yo shut up about the left you two----get a new punchline.

    the media loves to pursue these stories becuase of people like YOU who scour the internet and TV looking or articles like this.

    So....you don't think it is important that the "go-to guy" on sheehans tour is a lying scumbag? Who tells lies about our soldiers, our WAR HEROES? This is why we scour the internet, because of people like you who DON"T CARE.

    We got dchristie postin' crap he KNOWS are lies and then bobble-heads like you going "yup, thats what they do, yup, yup"
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-10-2005 at 07:30 AM.

  6. #6
    umdkook Guest

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    of course i think its terrible, but who cares about Cindy sheehan???
    her *****ass got arrested when she got near the white house, thank god. its too bad she didnt stay in jail.

    Anyone who blasts teh white house or the militaryt for a soldier dying in Iraq deserves ZERO attention, and rather a kick in teh ass...

    i care very much about our soldiers and have never waivered my support for them (god half of them are younger than me, and im not that old). i dont like it when you and people like you blame Liberals when someone attacks Bush or the military or the US in general. I dont call every conservative a traitorous fack just becuase the most important one, our Prez, is an ass.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    This particular incident is directly concerned with lies being told across the country by someone who has been supported and propped up by moveon.org. It cannot go by without comment.

    Most of my posts are about the liberal agenda which I find abhorrent and, in some cases, evil. The targets are the politicians...it ain't any more personal than that. This agenda is something that does not go away or even change much depending on which party is in power or in the White House. The slide is just steeper during a dem presidency. The fact that the big media outlets feed at the teat of p.c. gives me plenty of stuff to bring up. If I could get an honest reading of the news, without any slant, I would not need the fvcking internet.

    Once you realize the travesty of what happened in California yesterday has EVERYTHING to do with getting the message out, you will understand why I keep posting.
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-10-2005 at 07:43 AM.

  8. #8
    umdkook Guest

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    im not too sure what the real saying is, but this one is just as good.

    SOMETIMES a news story is just a news story....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    speakin of war criminals....you dont mind if i do!?!i remember that after world war 2 "WE" as is commonly known as the USA greatly admired and accepted the rocket scientists and who the hell knows else to a great and wealthy life OVER HERE due to the're EXPERTISE and GENIOUS!arn'rt you suckers jealous!!but of course this tottally explains your silly and pathetic inhuman retoric like a bunch a rockstar chasin teeny bopper groupys!!please....notice me!!i wanna be a SOMEBODY!!......anybody!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    Smear Job?
    Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:13:12 -0800 Massey responds By Jimmy Massey
    An Iraq vet responds to charges he lied about American war crimes
    Editors note: Jimmy Massey is a 12-year veteran of the United States Marine Corps who served as a Staff Sergeant in the 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines, Weapons Company, during the invasion of Iraq. Shortly after returning, Massey began speaking out about atrocities he says he commited and witnessed in Iraq. He recently released a downloadable book entitled Kill, Kill, Kill: A Soldiers Remorse (written with Claire Schaeffer-Duffy) that chronicles his time in Iraq. Earlier this month, Ron Harris, a reporter for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch who was embedded in a unit near Masseys, charged Massey with lying about the alleged war crimes in an article entitled Is Jimmy Massey Telling the Truth About Iraq? Harris then appeared on CNN on Nov. 6th where he repeated the charges. The following is Masseys response to Harris article:

    When Im on my death bed and I have to face God with all the sins I committed throughout my life, when I come to the sin of killing innocent people in Iraq, I know I will only be able to meet my maker if I tell the truth now.

    My story has been widely published in mainstream American and international press, as well as widely circulated on right-wing pro-war websites, for more than 1 year and 8 months. In December, 2004, MSNBC interviewed Pentagon Marine Corps spokesman Maj. Douglas Powell about me saying, Were not saying hes lying, but his perception of what the situation was in relation to the rules of engagement, and what was justified, is different than ours. In a letter written to the editor of the Mountaineer, which was the first newspaper to publish my story in February 2004, Major Dan Schmitt, my former Commanding officer said, There is no profit for anyone in discrediting his story in any way.

    Prior to the Marine Corps briefing my unit to refuse to make any comment regarding me, my claims were corroborated in interviews with my fellow platoon members conducted by Natasha Saulnier, the co-author of my autobiography Kill, Kill, Kill. One of my platoon members, speaking from Camp Pendleton, CA, last winter, admitted that Civilians get in the way Yes, there were civilian casualties, women and children as well we didnt check them up to see if they had weapons yes, that was at the checkpoint where all the stuff happened. Another said, We were all pissed off [at shooting women and children]. Nobody was doing it on purpose, and another corroborated the incident in which our platoon had fired on and killed unarmed protestors.

    Beverley Ann Dexter,the Navy psychiatrist who performed my exit examination back home, wrote on record that the patient initially presented to the mental health dept on 30, May 03 after he was medivaced back from the Iraq war with the diagnosis of major depressive disorder and PTSD, recurrent. He reports that he had become extremely distressed over seeing many dead bodies of individuals in civilian clothes. A particularly disturbing event was an occasion when a man questioned him about why troops had killed his brother whom the man said was a civilian.

    Major newspapers and media outlets published my story. Neither the Marine Corps nor any of my platoon members filed any charges against me as a result of my claims in over 20 months. Nor did they attempt any defamation campaign to counteract my allegations that the large numbers of civilians killed in the invasion, as a result of failed strategies, fomented anti-American sentiment, and fueled the insurgency.

    Until Saturday.

    Quantico Marine Base Public Affairs Officer Lt. Col. Richard Long, former director of Public Affairs and the embedded reporter program in Iraq, began circulating an article Monday published in the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Saturday, November 5, by former embedded reporter Ron Harris, accusing me of lying. Harris not only was not assigned to my Weapons Company, (he was with Lima), and was not present for any of the incidents he disputes, but before last week, had not spoken with me once since my return.

    On Monday, Harris appeared on CNNs American Morning, in an unrebutted interview stating, not only did I not see any protesters, nobody saw any protesters, and nobody ever interviewed the marines, which I did all of. Nobody ever checked his story. They dont even have another source that says on background or another source who didnt want to be quoted. Apparently, it is more important to Ron Harris to promote fiction than tell the truth. When he finally did call me and my co author two weeks ago to prepare his article, I told him I didnt know how he could live with himself by concealing the truth, and told him he would have to answer to a higher power.

    Harris apparent contempt for me seems to stem from the fact that one and a half years ago, I exposed him for having greatly embellished an incident at Rasheed Military complex in his April 9, 2003, article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch. (Note the caption confirming Harris assignment to Lima Company). In the article, Harris described a dramatic, daylong battle glorifying heroic deeds and describing guerillas hiding behind civilians. Speaking at the Boston Veterans for Peace Convention in 2004, I said Harris had greatly exaggerated the combat in what was subsequently hailed as an example of American military prowess. I confessed publicly thatcontact that day was thin and sporadic, and that as my unit entered Iraq it came upon empty Iraqi military bases with weapons lying on the road. I noted that We shot it up with everything we had, and we were laughing and having a good time. The Iraqis let us in the country; we didnt take it.

    It is ironic that Ron Harris should accuse others of bad reporting. It was Ron Harris himself that misquoted me as having mentioned a 4 year old with a bullet in her head, and then conveniently used his own misquote to accuse me of lying. Simply doing a web search for Jimmy Massey and 4 year old, you will find that the only source even suggesting that I knew of an incident when Marines had killed the child is Harris own story. My only related quote had been Lima Company was involved in a shooting at a checkpoint. My platoon was ordered to another area before the victims were removed from the car. The other Marines told me that a 4-year-old girl had been killed.

    Most importantly, this incident is not even mentioned by me and my co-author in Kill, Kill, Kill because it relied on a second hand account. Harris would know this if he had read the book that he denounced so virulently on CNN and in his article, but he has not and cannot read it because it is only out in French, a language he openly admits he cannot speak. After nearly 2 years of remaining silent despite knowledge of my confessions, why has Harris saved his charade for the publication of a book of which he has absolutely no knowledge?

    Fumbling for incriminating evidence, Harris reports that while touring with Sheehan in Montgomery, Ala., [I] told of seeing the girls body. Cindy Sheehan and I were never together in Montgomery. In a similar confusion, Harris goes on to claim that I have said I personally killed a 6-year-old.Before numerous interviews and reports frayed its edges, my original statement had been I brought these series of events up through the chain of command. Each time I was told they were terrorists, or they were insurgents. My question to the marine corps at that point became, how was a 6 year old child with a bullet hole in its head a terrorist or insurgent?

    In the aforementioned April 9, 2003, article, Harris refers to a makeshift morgue and quotes Lt. Col. Belcher, Commander of 3rd Battalion, 7tth Marines without deeming it relevant to make further investigation, These are apparently Iraqi soldiers that were killed in the attacks. Some people had leg wounds, chest wounds, tears, cuts, shrapnel holes. Why did Ron Harris swallow the commands stories?

    Apparently, Harris didnt read any more of the articles in USA Today or Vanity Fair that he cites in his article than he did of Kill, Kill, Kill. USA Today and Vanity Fair never published my accounts of mounting civilian casualties in Iraq. Both of their stories were about military recruiting practices, and not concerned with Iraq.

    If Ron Harris or the Marine Corps Public Affairs office want to mount a smear campaign against me and those who published my story, they could begin by buying a couple copies of the book and reading it. They will be pleased to know that a portion of the profits will go to establishing PTSD treatment centers for U.S. veterans.

    Jimmy Massey is a 12-year veteran of the United States Marine Corps who served as a Staff Sergeant in the 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines, Weapons Company, during the invasion of Iraq. He can be reached at: [email protected].

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal


    Former Marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey has published a book in France called, "Kill Kill Kill." It accuses U.S. soldiers of atrocities in Iraq, including the killing of civilian men, women, and children.

    Our next guest says Massey is lying and he can prove it. Joining us now is "St. Louis Post" dispatch writer Ron Harris. He was embedded with Jimmy Massey's unit in Iraq. Welcome, Ron.

    RON HARRIS, "ST. LOUIS POST": Thank you. COSTELLO: You know, if this guy is lying, that's just vile. Because he's saying some vile things about our men and women over in Iraq.

    HARRIS: Yes, that's very true. I mean, he is claiming that marines intentionally killed civilians, that he intentionally killed civilians. And at times, he claims that they intentionally killed civilians based on orders from the superiors. And the fact is, it just isn't true.

    [CAROL] COSTELLO: OK, let's get to specifics now. He claimed, as you said, that Marines fired on and killed peaceful Iraqi protesters and were sometimes ordered by higher-ups to do that. How can you disprove that?

    HARRIS: Well, two or three things. Number one, I was there in Iraq when -- I was in Baghdad when we initially pulled in. I was with Massey's unit. I was embedded with the unit, as were three other -- four other journalists, actually. And we went to that prison and I was there the next morning.

    And not only did I not see any protesters, nobody saw any protesters. And not for weeks. Because during that time, it was a very, very dangerous period. It was basically four kinds of Iraqis. There were Iraqis who were happy to see the marines. There were Iraqis who were shooting at the marines and me, too, and the other journalists. There were Iraqis who were looting and that was probably what we saw most of. And there were finally Iraqis staying at home because they were afraid.

    COSTELLO: Yes, but Ron, if there was completely untrue, I mean, this guy has made it into pretty big publications like "Vanity Fair." He's written a book that's bee published in France.

    HARRIS: Oh, it's been published everywhere. Nobody -- in not one publication or not one broadcast, is there any corroboration. It's just Jimmy Massey's story. Nobody ever called a journalists who were covering him. Nobody ever interviewed the marines, which I did all of. Nobody ever checked his story. They don't even have another source that says on background or another source who didn't want to be quoted. It's just Jimmy Massey's story.

    COSTELLO: Well, let's face it -- let's say these stories were true. Would the marines -- wouldn't be forthcoming about that. Oh, yes, we killed innocent Iraqi people. They're not going to admit that.

    HARRIS: No, no, no. That's not true. In fact, the marines, we were there embedded with the marines. And the marines did shoot innocent civilians. And we covered that. In fact, covered that -- the photographer with me, Andrew Cartero (ph) shot pictures of innocent civilians who had been accidentally shot by the Marine Corps. We wrote stories and Andy took photographs of a British television crew that was shot and killed by the Marine Corps on the second day of the war. COSTELLO: Well, Ron, let's go to some of those photos. We have one photo that this photographer took, and it shows two women who are bloody. You say this further disproves Jimmy Massey's story. In what way?

    HARRIS: In that case, Jimmy Massey claimed that a 4-year-old girl was shot in the head. That was the particular shooting incident. In fact, there were civilian shot in that car by Marines. Nobody died.

    Andrew Cartero, again, the photographer for "The Post Dispatch," took those photographs. And as you can see in those pictures, there are people there. Nobody died. I talked to the medic who treated them. And I traveled with him for more than a month, Petty Officer Justin Poviance (ph). He told me nobody died in that incident.

    COSTELLO: Well, let's go to one other picture, and this is really gruesome. So I' going to warn people to turn away if you want to see it. But this a tractor trailer. Jimmy Massey says it was filled with women, children and men. What do you say?

    HARRIS: We were there. Those are photographs by Andrew Katraro. I saw it. Michael Phillips from "Wall Street Journal" saw it. Robbie Nesbit (ph) from Associated Press saw it. Those were men on a military base who had been killed by U.S. artillery, but there were no women or children in those tractor trailers. Those tractor trailer were used as sort of a makeshift morgue. They were refrigerated trucks, and they had been killed by American bombing. Initially the military thought that they had been killed by Saddam Hussein. They thought maybe it was a war crime.

    COSTELLO: OK, I have to ask you this before I have to let you go.


    COSTELLO: Why would this staff sergeant, Jimmy Massey, lie about these things, and say such terrible things about his own comrades?

    HARRIS: Well, one of the things that has happened -- number one, Jimmy Massey, I don't know why, but I can just speculate a couple of things. Number one, Jimmy Massey was honorably discharged for post- traumatic stress syndrome. The second thing, Jimmy Massey has profited off of this. He does have a book. He has a Web site in which he sells his story on a CD for a hundred dollars. I think it's called jimmymassey.com. So it's been profitable for Jimmy Massey to keep telling this lie.

    COSTELLO: Ron Harris from the "St. Louis Post Dispatch," thank you for joining us this morning.

    Where are the rest of the MSM dupes--from the Associated Press to the Washington Post to Vanity Fair and USA Today--who blindly peddled Jimmy Massey's lies and lionized him under the guise of responsible journalism?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    The basic idea of debate is that each time you stand up, you bring something new to the argument. You dont just re-hash the same stuff as last time, or just regurgitate it in a slightly different way. You could talk about the validity of two opposing points or co-relate various points in order to give a different emphasis, but if you just say the same thing again and again, the debate deteriorates into a shouting match, and as you no doubt learned from recent experiences, some people are prone to say rash things under those circumstances. If you have nothing to say, it is best to say nothing.
    I did not have anything new to add to this specific incident. That is why I printed the article without comment from myself, and this was done to give Mr. Massey a right of reply on this forum where it would seem that otherwise he would not have had that opportunity. I did not comment on other posts in order that others would have a chance to view both articles together and make their own minds up.
    I will however now comment on the motives proposed by Mr Harris, when he states
    Well, one of the things that has happened -- number one, Jimmy Massey, I don't know why, but I can just speculate a couple of things. Number one, Jimmy Massey was honorably discharged for post- traumatic stress syndrome.
    So does this mean that all other returning service personnel with PTSS will also exhibit the same symptoms, What are these symptoms? Is it limited to lying? What relevance does honourably have? What happens if it is dishonourable? A sudden attack of telling the truth?
    This is a very cheap shot, Dont believe him, hes mad. This is an unfounded and disgraceful slur not only on Mr Massey but also on all others who have suffered post traumatic stress or indeed any other such related illnesses. I believe that the only relevant part of Mr. Harris answer was, I dont know., and he should have left it at that rather than take the rather too well orchestrated opportunity to add meaningless drivel with the obvious intent of creating inferences which have no basis in fact.
    Harris then goes on to say, The second thing, Jimmy Massey has profited off of this. He does have a book. He has a Web site in which he sells his story on a CD for a hundred dollars. I think it's called jimmymassey.com. So it's been profitable for Jimmy Massey to keep telling this lie.
    If Mr Harris, or indeed anyone else, had taken the trouble to visit the site, for which he has given the correct address, he would find that these CDs are in fact DVDs and are on sale at two for fifty dollars, rather than the one hundred dollars each which he states. Prominently displayed on the site is a statement that current sales stand at ten DVDs giving a total income before costs of two hundred and fifty dollars.
    Some of the other points of this debate are yet to be settled, but this is a demonstrably false statement from Mr Harris, and in my eyes, and so too in a court of law, that would seriously damage his credibility, and also that of his supporters.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005

    Re: sheehans sidekick a war criminal

    Here is a good link shedding some light on Harris's comments regarding Massey:


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