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  1. #1
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    This is disturbing

    This is not for the "weak of stomach"

    Lady Mod

    US Forces 'Used Chemical Weapons' during Assault on City of Fallujah

    A Film by Sigfrido Ranucci
    Rainews24
    11.08.05
    WARNING: This video contains graphic and possibly disturbing footage.

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    _____

    Go to Original
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle325560.ece

    US Forces 'Used Chemical Weapons' during Assault on City of Fallujah
    By Peter Popham
    The Independent UK

    Tuesday 08 November 2005

    Powerful new evidence emerged yesterday that the United States dropped
    massive quantities of white phosphorus on the Iraqi city of Fallujah during
    the attack on the city in November 2004, killing insurgents and civilians
    with the appalling burns that are the signature of this weapon.

    Ever since the assault, which went unreported by any Western journalists,
    rumours have swirled that the Americans used chemical weapons on the city.

    On 10 November last year, the Islam Online website wrote: "US troops are
    reportedly using chemical weapons and poisonous gas in its large-scale
    offensive on the Iraqi resistance bastion of Fallujah, a grim reminder of
    Saddam Hussein's alleged gassing of the Kurds in 1988."

    The website quoted insurgent sources as saying: "The US occupation troops
    are gassing resistance fighters and confronting them with internationally
    banned chemical weapons."

    In December the US government formally denied the reports, describing them as "widespread myths". "Some news accounts have claimed that US forces have used 'outlawed' phosphorus shells in Fallujah," the USinfo website said. "Phosphorus shells are not outlawed. US forces have used them very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes."

    "They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not
    at enemy fighters."

    But now new information has surfaced, including hideous photographs and videos and interviews with American soldiers who took part in the Fallujah attack, which provides graphic proof that phosphorus shells were widely deployed in the city as a weapon.

    In a documentary to be broadcast by RAI, the Italian state broadcaster,
    this morning, a former American soldier who fought at Fallujah says: "I
    heard the order to pay attention because they were going to use white
    phosphorus on Fallujah. In military jargon it's known as Willy Pete."

    "Phosphorus burns bodies, in fact it melts the flesh all the way down to
    the bone ... I saw the burned bodies of women and children. Phosphorus
    explodes and forms a cloud. Anyone within a radius of 150 metres is done
    for."

    Photographs on the website of RaiTG24, the broadcaster's 24-hours news
    channel, www.rainews24.it, show exactly what the former soldier means.
    Provided by the Studies Centre of Human Rights in Fallujah, dozens of
    high-quality, colour close-ups show bodies of Fallujah residents, some still
    in their beds, whose clothes remain largely intact but whose skin has been
    dissolved or caramelised or turned the consistency of leather by the shells.


    A biologist in Fallujah, Mohamad Tareq, interviewed for the film, says:
    "A rain of fire fell on the city, the people struck by this multi-coloured
    substance started to burn, we found people dead with strange wounds, the
    bodies burned but the clothes intact."

    The documentary, entitled "Fallujah: the Hidden Massacre," also provides
    what it claims is clinching evidence that incendiary bombs known as Mark 77,
    a new, improved form of napalm, was used in the attack on Fallujah, in
    breach of the UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons of 1980, which
    only allows its use against military targets.

    Meanwhile, five US soldiers from the elite 75th Ranger Regiment have been
    charged with kicking and punching detainees in Iraq.

    The news came as a suicide car bomber killed four American soldiers at a
    checkpoint south of Baghdad yesterday.

    NOTE: Isn't Saddam on trial for using Chemical Weapons on the Iraqi
    population and other crimes against humanity? A reasonable man or woman
    would conclude that if it is a crime for Saddam to use chemical weapons it
    is also a crime for George W Bush to use chemical weapons. Another
    reasonable conclusion would be, George W Bush is committing crimes against
    humanity. Apparently not was the news on television tonight. Because we are fighting "terrorists" and not soldiers, it doesn't fall under the definition of "crime."

    But it should.

    Facts about the Bush family go to http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm#3%20 -- and read the documented facts from the U.S. National Archives. Read Chapter 2 first.

    Remember--- Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

  2. #2
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    Re: This is disturbing

    The only question I have is, if this is credible, why did this take a year to surface?

    .

  3. #3
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    Re: This is disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17
    The only question I have is, if this is credible, why did this take a year to surface?

    .

    Lets not even ask why they would bother....

    Even I am surprised when enemies of our country are encouraged to this extent...meaning even more than usual. They do not need to 'infiltrate' anything...just let our own citizens do it for them.

    You are damn right it's disturbing.

  4. #4
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    Re: This is disturbing

    The evidence shown is a lie. PERIOD.

    This is complete conjecture and assumption. The video does not explain the battlefield before and during Falluja nor explain the 500 pounders that were blasting away at KNOWN terrorist strongholds before the siege. There were many terrorist sites that were there and should have been bombed. If the women family members that were there weren't smart enough to figure out that they were going to die if they stayed there, then so be it. If they decided to raise their children in this manner, then the fault lies with them, not with the artillery. Many will see the video and shout out sympathies.....These people are being lied to by a BBC slant. The citizens of Falluja were told to evacuate, there was going to be a battle there to rid their city of thieves and thugs and terrorists who were killing innocent people indiscriminately. What the video doesn't show is the mass exodus of Falluja before the battle. Why wouldn't they tell you about the 95% of residents that left?


    I'll tell you why; they want you to think that the U.S. Military is just as sinister as the terrorists. This, of course, isn't true. Do the terrorists notify a city before detonating a IED? NO, they don't - this is why we call them terrorists. You'll never even see it comming; then blam-o! you're a blood stain.

    Falluja was a great victory for the credibility of the Military. I am proud of the battle fought there by my brothren in arms. God speed soldiers. We'll welcome you all home soon. :cool:
    Last edited by Raider; 11-09-2005 at 08:33 AM.

  5. #5
    Lenny Loosejocks Guest

    Re: This is disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Lets not even ask why they would bother....

    Even I am surprised when enemies of our country are encouraged to this extent...meaning even more than usual. They do not need to 'infiltrate' anything...just let our own citizens do it for them.

    You are damn right it's disturbing.
    When did the people or Iraq become your countries' enemy? You invaded them, remember?

    Those citizens you refer to are former soldiers who were actually there and ordered to kill civillians in the most horrible way, while you are free sit on your fat arse and spew your hateful drivell from the relative safety of your padded cell. (Hold me back, Steph.)

    Stop, drop, roll!!!

    AAAAAHHHHH!!:cool:

    If you are happy to believe that telling the truth about what is going on over there is tantamount to infiltration by the enemy, then you really need to have an inward look at yourself and decide who really is your enemy. You or them???

    Here's a hint............The twisted, burnt bodies of those poor children of Iraq are not your enemy.....You are!


    :mad:

  6. #6
    Lenny Loosejocks Guest

    Re: This is disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    The evidence shown is a lie. PERIOD.

    This is complete conjecture and assumption. The video does not explain the battlefield before and during Falluja nor explain the 500 pounders that were blasting away at KNOWN terrorist strongholds before the siege. There were many terrorist sites that were there and should have been bombed. If the women family members that were there weren't smart enough to figure out that they were going to die if they stayed there, then so be it. If they decided to raise their children in this manner, then the fault lies with them, not with the artillery. Many will see the video and shout out sympathies.....These people are being lied to by a BBC slant. The citizens of Falluja were told to evacuate, there was going to be a battle there to rid their city of thieves and thugs and terrorists who were killing innocent people indiscriminately. What the video doesn't show is the mass exodus of Falluja before the battle. Why wouldn't they tell you about the 95% of residents that left?


    I'll tell you why; they want you to think that the U.S. Military is just as sinister as the terrorists. This, of course, isn't true. Do the terrorists notify a city before detonating a IED? NO, they don't - this is why we call them terrorists. You'll never even see it comming; then blam-o! you're a blood stain.

    Falluja was a great victory for the credibility of the Military. I am proud of the battle fought there by my brothren in arms. God speed soldiers. We'll welcome you all home soon. :cool:
    Raider, you believe what you have to because it helps you sleep at night. The 5% who stayed may not have had the benefit of choosing whether to leave or stay. Think about that!


    :(

  7. #7
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    Re: This is disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    The evidence shown is a lie. PERIOD.

    I'll tell you why; they want you to think that the U.S. Military is just as sinister as the terrorists. This, of course, isn't true. Do the terrorists notify a city before detonating a IED? NO, they don't - this is why we call them terrorists. You'll never even see it comming; then blam-o! you're a blood stain.

    Falluja was a great victory for the credibility of the Military. I am proud of the battle fought there by my brothren in arms. God speed soldiers. We'll welcome you all home soon. :cool:
    I don't know how you can call the video evidence a lie. It's there in living color after all.

    The one thing you neglect to understand is that the military is a tool, they do as instructed. It's the ones in charge that are as bad as any terrorist, they aren't personally affected by the outcome of any action the military takes. Commander - in - Chief's should be right there in the thick of things doing some actual "leading" on the battlefield as in days of old and not sitting in air conditioned offices pushing paperwork that might condemn our soldiers or other humans to this kind of fate.

    Videos like this show the unglamorous side of war. The side the controlled news media never show.

    Lady Mod

  8. #8
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: This is disturbing

    What is the agenda of the "independent U.K.? Does anyone know its'
    orientation?
    Also, I wouldn't accept anything from Al Jeezera. They are a propaganda
    machine of Al Quieda.
    Isn't it interesting that virtually the ONLY news correspondents that
    can safely operate in the area now (even though they are non-combantats)
    are mostly "reporters" of Arab extraction. That's another handy way for them
    to shut down any sembelance of impartial and democratic oriented news
    reporting sources. Then, they can very handily shape the events reported
    to suit their agenda.
    Also, don't forget how handy it is, especially now days, to alter video
    and photography.
    Finally, you can tell when they are getting their ass kicked and american
    troops are getting the best of them, is when they start pumping out the
    adverse propaganda.

  9. #9
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    Re: This is disturbing

    Coontie, does that mean that America knew in advance that this war was a lost cause and that's why the administration started pumping out adverse propaganda about weapons of mass destruction? Just wondering what you think.

    This video will never air on the local news broadcast. Probably only the Internet so for it to sway public opinion, they got a whole lot of work ahead of them if that is the end result they want.

    Lady Mod

  10. #10
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: This is disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Coontie, does that mean that America knew in advance that this war was a lost cause and that's why the administration started pumping out adverse propaganda about weapons of mass destruction? Just wondering what you think.

    This video will never air on the local news broadcast. Probably only the Internet so for it to sway public opinion, they got a whole lot of work ahead of them if that is the end result they want.

    Lady Mod

    Lets just say that the present administration "blundered" into this foray
    dumbly, blindly, as Jr. wanted to attempt to duplicate the deeds of Daddy.
    Of course Daddy was smart enought to stay out of Baghdad and Saddam's
    tribal village.
    Too bad they failed to consider (done blindly, intentionally) the terribly
    blood thirsty and barbaric bunch our troops were coming up against,
    or they didn't care, because it wasn't going to be them.
    Sad to say, and terrible, the only way to beat this bunch at their own
    game is to fight them on their terms, which is to a great extent un-
    civilized and barbaric; they're still evolving, haven't been in out of the
    desert and tents too long...
    We cannot maintain the standards of the Geneva Convention and in the
    same instance allow our soldiers an even fighting position.
    What is surfacing now, from there, sadly, is that our military, man
    for man are trained fighting technicians: they become embroiled in the
    thick of the combat, see the enemy for who and what they are and
    resort to doing to them what they understand and dislike, what is effective.
    I think it is terrible. But who's in the combat situation? It seems easy for
    us to sit in the comfort and cleanliness of our homes, cities and
    work places, so far removed from these Hells and judge them.
    If I were there, I would hope, personally, that I would be able to
    hold it together and NOT resort to barbaric tactics. But who knows?
    God... :(
    Last edited by coontie; 11-10-2005 at 08:04 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: This is disturbing

    You remind me of those individuals who refuse to believe the Holocaust happened or that we really did go to the moon. Guess we never used napalm on the people of Vietnam either. Pity. What would it take for you to accept the fact that this administration is turning us into monsters? I feel sorry for our troops because they are the ones who have to carry out these horrible orders. We have replaced Saddam and become what he was. Does that make you proud? All I can feel is repulsion. You can't have freedom without truth folks but unfortunately, you won't see videos like this on our national news. I don't feel like I'm living in America anymore, I feel like I'm living in the RNC's new version of the Soviet Union.

  12. #12
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    Re: This is disturbing

    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=7429

    This appears to be true after all.

    .

  13. #13
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    Re: This is disturbing

    UK's deadly legacy: the cluster bomb
    Ben Russell, Political Correspondent, The Independent



    It is feared that thousands of bomblets lie unexploded in Iraq, capable of maiming or killing innocent civilians. This week, more than two years after they were dropped, Britain is finally being held to account

    21 November 2005

    Tony Blair is facing fresh fury over the use of controversial munitions in the Iraq war. Campaigners lambasted the Ministry of Defence over its use of deadly cluster bombs and shells during the invasion, warning that they could contravene international law.

    MPs are to table a raft of new questions today over the affair amid fears that thousands of bomblets released during the war will leave a deadly legacy for Iraqi civilians. They warned that any unexploded bomblets could kill or maim civilians for years to come.

    The dispute over British use of cluster bombs will be intensify this week with the publication of a report by the pressure group Landmine Action, which raises questions over the efforts made to ensure that the weapons did not harm civilians. It comes as international signatories to the international convention on conventional weapons meet in Geneva this week, amid pressure for a moratorium on the production of cluster bombs and tough new limits on their use.

    The report, funded by the Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Fund, said British officials had failed to gather field data about the failure rates of cluster bomblets, and had done "little or nothing to gauge the humanitarian impact of these weapons".

    It said that the UK had "failed to undertake any significant effort to understand better the impact of cluster munition use and has continued to use them. As was foreseeable, these cluster munitions have been a cause of civilian casualties."

    Michael Moore, the Liberal Democrat defence spokesman, said: "This is a very significant report which raises some very serious issues. There is clearly a lack of information and I will be tabling questions and writing to the Secretary of State with a copy of this report seeking detailed answers to the questions it raises. The jury may be out on the political legacy of the coalition's time in Iraq but the military legacy could be absolutely devastating."

    Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour MP for Islington North, also said he would raise fresh questions about the affair. He said: "My concerns about the issue of cluster bombs are as strong as they ever were. Unexploded bomblets lying around can be picked up by farmers and children in the community and can be lethal. They can be buried and can be as bad as land mines."

    A report published in 2003 by the group Human Rights Watch said British forces had killed dozens of civilians in and around Basra using ground launched cluster munitions.

    Britain confirmed in 2003 that it dropped substantial numbers of cluster bombs during the campaign. The Ministry of Defence said that 2,000 bomblet shells were fired by artillery on the ground and 68 cluster bombs were dropped from the air during the war.

    Ministers insisted that the weapons were targeting "specific military targets", but later confirmed that British troops used cluster bombs in built up areas. The revelation sparked a storm of protest after The Independent revealed in 2003 that Adam Ingram, the Armed Forces minister, had admitted that the use of cluster bombs against civilian targets would not be legal.

    Parliamentary written answers released at the time also confirmed that the MoD had carried out no reviews or assessments of the civilian casualties caused by unexploded bomblets used in the Gulf region, Kosovo or Afghanistan. The Ministry insisted last year that it had cleared more than one million unexploded bombs in southern Iraq, including 6,000 sub-munitions, or bomblets.

    Ministers insist that the cluster bombs are not indiscriminate and represent an acceptable "balance between the threat to civilians and the need to protect British forces". But critics said the answer provided too little detail to determine whether British forces had removed all threats to Iraqi civilians.

    The Landmine Action report also warned yesterday that the bomblets could have a 10 per cent failure rate, and said that in conflict zones such as Kosovo unexploded munitions were still being found years after the end of hostilities.

    It said a British Government report had acknowledged that airborne cluster bombs had an "unacceptable" failure rate, and warned: "It is far from clear that those making decisions about the use of cluster munitions routinely do so or even could do so with a serious sense of the possible effects of the weapons."

    Simon Conway, the acting director of Landmine Action, said: "These weapons were designed for use against columns of vehicles on the German plains. If you fire an artillery shell into a populated area fighting irregular troops like in 2003 and you use a weapons system like this in that context it can be indiscriminate."

    A spokesman for the MoD insisted: "Cluster munitions are entirely lawful weapons. If we did not use them we would have to use something much more hazardous to civilians."



    Similar type of article from the same newspaper. It is part of the main stream media. The figures underplay the danger of these weapons, since one, air delivered bomb can sow more than 30 000 BLU (Bomb Light Units), and with a failure rate of 10-15% admitted by the manufacturers, and de-miners generally expecting nearer 25-30% with some types, you can see that we will be killing in Iraq even when we leave.

    Gordon.

  14. #14
    umdkook Guest

    Re: This is disturbing

    i just dont understand what Bush and the people in charge of the Iraqi war are thinking. the arrogance is appalling.

  15. #15
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    Re: This is disturbing

    Guardian newspaper UK follow up on use of WP weapons

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Behind the phosphorus clouds are war crimes within war crimes

    We now know the US also used thermobaric weapons in its assault on Falluja, where up to 50,000 civilians remained

    George Monbiot
    Tuesday November 22, 2005
    The Guardian


    The media couldn't have made a bigger pig's ear of the white phosphorus story. So, before moving on to the new revelations from Falluja, I would like to try to clear up the old ones. There is no hard evidence that white phosphorus was used against civilians. The claim was made in a documentary broadcast on the Italian network RAI, called Falluja: the Hidden Massacre. It claimed that the corpses in the pictures it ran "showed strange injuries, some burnt to the bone, others with skin hanging from their flesh ... The faces have literally melted away, just like other parts of the body. The clothes are strangely intact." These assertions were supported by a human-rights advocate who, it said, possessed "a biology degree".

    Article continues

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I, too, possess a biology degree, and I am as well qualified to determine someone's cause of death as I am to perform open-heart surgery. So I asked Chris Milroy, professor of forensic pathology at the University of Sheffield, to watch the film. He reported that "nothing indicates to me that the bodies have been burnt". They had turned black and lost their skin "through decomposition". We don't yet know how these people died.
    But there is hard evidence that white phosphorus was deployed as a weapon against combatants in Falluja. As this column revealed last Tuesday, US infantry officers confessed that they had used it to flush out insurgents. A Pentagon spokesman told the BBC that white phosphorus "was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants". He claimed "it is not a chemical weapon. They are not outlawed or illegal." This denial has been accepted by most of the mainstream media. UN conventions, the Times said, "ban its use on civilian but not military targets". But the word "civilian" does not occur in the chemical weapons convention. The use of the toxic properties of a chemical as a weapon is illegal, whoever the target is.

    The Pentagon argues that white phosphorus burns people, rather than poisoning them, and is covered only by the protocol on incendiary weapons, which the US has not signed. But white phosphorus is both incendiary and toxic. The gas it produces attacks the mucous membranes, the eyes and the lungs. As Peter Kaiser of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons told the BBC last week: "If ... the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because ... any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons."

    The US army knows that its use as a weapon is illegal. In the Battle Book, published by the US Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, my correspondent David Traynier found the following sentence: "It is against the law of land warfare to employ WP against personnel targets."

    Last night the blogger Gabriele Zamparini found a declassified document from the US department of defence, dated April 1991, and titled "Possible use of phosphorus chemical". "During the brutal crackdown that followed the Kurdish uprising," it alleges, "Iraqi forces loyal to President Saddam may have possibly used white phosphorus (WP) chemical weapons against Kurdish rebels and the populace in Erbil ... and Dohuk provinces, Iraq. The WP chemical was delivered by artillery rounds and helicopter gunships ... These reports of possible WP chemical weapon attacks spread quickly ... hundreds of thousands of Kurds fled from these two areas." The Pentagon is in no doubt, in other words, that white phosphorus is an illegal chemical weapon.

    The insurgents, of course, would be just as dead today if they were killed by other means. So does it matter if chemical weapons were mixed with other munitions? It does. Anyone who has seen those photos of the lines of blind veterans at the remembrance services for the first world war will surely understand the point of international law, and the dangers of undermining it.

    But we shouldn't forget that the use of chemical weapons was a war crime within a war crime within a war crime. Both the invasion of Iraq and the assault on Falluja were illegal acts of aggression. Before attacking the city, the marines stopped men "of fighting age" from leaving. Many women and children stayed: the Guardian's correspondent estimated that between 30,000 and 50,000 civilians were left. The marines treated Falluja as if its only inhabitants were fighters. They levelled thousands of buildings, illegally denied access to the Iraqi Red Crescent and, according to the UN's special rapporteur, used "hunger and deprivation of water as a weapon of war against the civilian population".

    I have been reading accounts of the assault published in the Marine Corps Gazette. The soldiers appear to have believed everything the US government told them. One article claims that "the absence of civilians meant the marines could employ blast weapons prior to entering houses that had become pillboxes, not homes". Another said that "there were less than 500 civilians remaining in the city". It continued: "The heroics [of the marines] will be the subject of many articles and books ... The real key to this tactical victory rested in the spirit of the warriors who courageously fought the battle. They deserve all of the credit for liberating Falluja."

    But buried in this hogwash is a grave revelation. An assault weapon the marines were using had been armed with warheads containing "about 35% thermobaric novel explosive (NE) and 65% standard high explosive". They deployed it "to cause the roof to collapse and crush the insurgents fortified inside interior rooms". It was used repeatedly: "The expenditure of explosives clearing houses was enormous."

    The marines can scarcely deny that they know what these weapons do. An article published in the Gazette in 2000 details the effects of their use by the Russians in Grozny. Thermobaric, or "fuel-air" weapons, it says, form a cloud of volatile gases or finely powdered explosives. "This cloud is then ignited and the subsequent fireball sears the surrounding area while consuming the oxygen in this area. The lack of oxygen creates an enormous overpressure ... Personnel under the cloud are literally crushed to death. Outside the cloud area, the blast wave travels at some 3,000 metres per second ... As a result, a fuel-air explosive can have the effect of a tactical nuclear weapon without residual radiation ... Those personnel caught directly under the aerosol cloud will die from the flame or overpressure. For those on the periphery of the strike, the injuries can be severe. Burns, broken bones, contusions from flying debris and blindness may result. Further, the crushing injuries from the overpressure can create air embolism within blood vessels, concussions, multiple internal haemorrhages in the liver and spleen, collapsed lungs, rupture of the eardrums and displacement of the eyes from their sockets." It is hard to see how you could use these weapons in Falluja without killing civilians.

    This looks to me like a convincing explanation of the damage done to Falluja, a city in which between 30,000 and 50,000 civilians might have been taking refuge. It could also explain the civilian casualties shown in the film. So the question has now widened: is there any crime the coalition forces have not committed in Iraq?

    www.monbiot.com

  16. #16
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    Re: This is disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    Isn't it interesting that virtually the ONLY news correspondents that can safely operate in the area now (even though they are non-combantats) are mostly "reporters" of Arab extraction. That's another handy way for them to shut down any sembelance of impartial and democratic oriented news reporting sources. Then, they can very handily shape the events reported to suit their agenda.
    You think the U.S. government doesn't have it's hands all over U.S. media? I'm starting to think the only way of getting your hands on "real" news is by getting news from other countries off the internet.

    American media is very biased in what they show and say.

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