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  1. #33
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    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    Which day is the "True Sabbath"?; Any day one would like!
    There is only one day which God sanctified as the Sabbath. No way for any of us to change that. God also gave us the freedom of choice. So in essence, you are correct Coontie. If we want to do things our way, any day will do. If we want to do God's will, there is only one Sabbath that was designated as such.

    We are to spend time with God everyday, but the Sabbath is a special day, different than the rest. It is the sign that shows who are God's people. If we follow the day as changed by man, rather than the one designated by God, we are in essence choosing man over God. And we are not being forced into this by God either. It is by our free will that we choose the day we set aside from everything else, to spend with God.

  2. #34
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work...
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    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawb
    There is only one day which God sanctified as the Sabbath. No way for any of us to change that. God also gave us the freedom of choice. So in essence, you are correct Coontie. If we want to do things our way, any day will do. If we want to do God's will, there is only one Sabbath that was designated as such.

    We are to spend time with God everyday, but the Sabbath is a special day, different than the rest. It is the sign that shows who are God's people. If we follow the day as changed by man, rather than the one designated by God, we are in essence choosing man over God. And we are not being forced into this by God either. It is by our free will that we choose the day we set aside from everything else, to spend with God.
    I see you've had a fresh key-winding... Hope your spring holds out!

  3. #35
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    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by coontie
    I see you've had a fresh key-winding... Hope your spring holds out!
    LOL ! yeah, it must've been late when I typed that one. Time for some zzzzzzz

  4. #36
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    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Hey Rawb, haven't seen you around in a while. I thought you knew by now that Jesus did not fulfil the Jewish prophecies (the ones in the Nevi'im) about what a messiah has to do--including being 100% human, no god or demigod status, and no second comings. That's why several messiah candidates were disqualified--they died before they fulfilled the prophecies.

    The short list (shamelessly stolen from R Stuart Federow):

    So how have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?
    The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and God, rather than two HUMAN parents, as was Hercules, and Dionysis, as well as many other pagan gods.
    The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5). But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was God.
    The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.
    The Messiah cannot trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30). But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.

    According to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:
    The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.
    The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.
    The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)
    The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of God is God (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
    The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.
    The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.
    The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.
    There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.
    After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.
    Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);
    The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;
    The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);
    All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);
    The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)
    Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);
    Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);
    The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)

    These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian's New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

    Even Christians recognize that none of the changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism as read in the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.

    Cheers, mate!
    Hello CK,
    it is late for me, so I will try to be semi-coherent here.

    The difference between the first coming and the need for the second is explained in the Bible as well. The first coming of Jesus was as a lamb. A sacrifice for the sins of the world. The old Testament showed the sanctuary that Moses had constructed as God commanded, and the sacrifice of lambs was done to atone for the sins of whichever person committed the sins. The lambs in the old testament points us to the savior and His purpose the first time. He was sacrificed on the cross, rested in the tomb for the Sabbath, and arose on the first day of the week. When He ascended, He went to work in the Heavenly sanctuary, where He is to this day. The judging of the living is being conducted now. After 2300 days the Holy place of the sanctuary was cleansed, (the judgement of the dead was complete) and then Christ went from the Holy to the most Holy place in the Sanctuary. The earthly sanctuary was a model for the Heavenly one.

    Once the judgement of the living is complete, that is when Christ will say "It is finished" and prepare to return to earth to bring His faithful followers home with Him. The whole purpose of the second coming is to bring His faithful home to be with Him.

    Now that is my understanding of what the Bible is saying anyway. I will respond to the rest after I get some zzz here.

  5. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    27,212

    Re: Which day is the true Sabbath?

    by an by......this thing about the first and second coming(no porno allowed!!hehe!!or is it!?...is it what!?/when/where!?the sly man asks!?hehe!!)and who is the sly man prey tell!?by an by.....for the teacher will appear when the student gets his head outa his .........by an by....hehe!!moon amtrack why dont cha boy/girl!?hehe!!been done before i guess.....it's all been done before i guess!?LOOK!who are you protectin!?..........MYSELF!!of course!!.......ya right!?give it up!!get down ta the nitty gritty!!...........OK!!...dont hurt me!!i confess!it's all about the ........the........other guy..you know.....him/them/they/those/you name it!!IT"S not my FAULT!!D A M M I T !!.........there.ya satisfied now!?back off then!!get outa my face!!or ELSE!!now look what cha done!i missed the TRAIN!!hehe!!
    Last edited by lexx; 02-06-2006 at 09:21 AM.

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