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  1. #17
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    Well here is a bad example, but there was a Pagan writer called Thallus who apparently referred to Jesus and said that when he was crucified there was an earthquake and unusual darkness.
    The problem with this is that no one can seem to find what Thallus wrote, there are only third-party references to that writing.

  2. #18
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    I thought Josephus mentioned Jesus working miracles.

    Pliny the Younger also mentioned Jesus in letters to Emperor Trajan.
    The Babylonian Talmud also mentions Jesus being "hanged".
    Then there's Lucian of Samosata mentioning the "leader of the Christians who was crucified" or something to that effect.
    I'm sure there are more...
    Pliny the Younger--you may be right.
    Babylonian Talmud--I think you're mixing up Jesus with Yeshu ha Notzri
    Lucian--questionable--Christianity didn't exist during Jesus' lifetime (if he lived), and crucifixion was a popular Roman sport. Christians started getting crucified in Rome sometime after that though.
    Josephus--the miracles part was Iraneus's invention.

    Which still comes back to no first-hand accounts by anyone we know was real. I would need to look it up, but I know there are accounts of weather reports and weird weather/astronomical phenomena of the time, and there wasn't an earthquake or eclipse in those when there should've been. May take a couple days to find a reference on that, though, and if I can't, we'll hand you that one.

  3. #19
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    didn't one of the medit. island volcanoes explode about that time? that would certainly explain the phenomena.

  4. #20
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Babylonian Talmud--I think you're mixing up Jesus with Yeshu ha Notzri
    Nope it was Jesus.
    As for the earthquake and darkness I don't know of any other accounts of it, it's not a very good source but it's one.

  5. #21
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    Can you give me the Talmudic cite, please?

  6. #22
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=talmud+jesus
    If this doesn't turn up anything, and it does, I can find you the quotes

  7. #23
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    It's the same old same old. I know the guy who comes out at the top of the searches, and he says that Balaam and Yeshu ha Notzri have nothing to do with Jesus either--I tend to agree with him, the dates would be off-the-charts if they were all the same. I've asked a few other people who are better scholars than me. (Not hard to find.)

    There are a bunch of fundamentalist Christian pages in there saying the talmud slanders (I think they mean 'libels') Jesus, but one of them was the same bunch who put up that daft 'the talmud encourages paedophilia' web site, the address of which I have mercifully, lost.

    So it's either tekyu, or Christians don't do much talmud study in seminary. Some do, I know, but uhh...not these ones. I'll see if I can refine the search terms some but I don't think it's there.

  8. #24
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    It's the same old same old. I know the guy who comes out at the top of the searches, and he says that Balaam and Yeshu ha Notzri have nothing to do with Jesus either--I tend to agree with him, the dates would be off-the-charts if they were all the same. I've asked a few other people who are better scholars than me. (Not hard to find.)

    There are a bunch of fundamentalist Christian pages in there saying the talmud slanders (I think they mean 'libels') Jesus, but one of them was the same bunch who put up that daft 'the talmud encourages paedophilia' web site, the address of which I have mercifully, lost.

    So it's either tekyu, or Christians don't do much talmud study in seminary. Some do, I know, but uhh...not these ones. I'll see if I can refine the search terms some but I don't think it's there.
    I guess I'll have to copy and paste the quotes directly.
    It's not the christian sites I'm meaning, and yes there are a lot, but I was thinking more along the lines of Hebrew websites, maybe a Hebrew records/history website. I'll have a look

  9. #25
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    You are aware that Judaism has had a whole lot of false messiahs, too, yes? Christians aren't the only ones who suffer religious mania.

    During the time period in question, the religio-political madness was probably past what we can even comprehend these days. I know the Talmud records some of the false messiahs who were running around then, but not all of them--they'd have to have added another hundred volumes or so. And some of them (the Ben Panderas, Yeshu ha Notzri) appear to be composite characters.

    Bar Kochba was real, we've got records of him and the rebellion made it into history, but there were an awful lot of wanna-bes who didn't get written down, too. Still are, I've met a few.

    It's not against Jewish law to think you or someone else is a messiah, which is probably a good thing. It is against religious law to claim that a person is a demigod, or Hashem--that's where Jesus would've run afoul (if he lived, which is a maybe, and if he said what he's claimed to have said which I seriously doubt), but the Jews wouldn't have been able to do anything to him anyway save put him under cherem, or excommunication, if it indeed went down that way and if they found him actually compos mentis.

    The charges were more likely sedition against Rome. Then again, with Pilate's record, I wonder if he needed charges at all. Aside from all the murders he sacked the temple for fun and profit, too. Not a guy who seems like he'd be worried about what a tribal god might think of his actions.

  10. #26
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    complex, i must say you know way too much to be considered an inquisitive soul.all resistant or biased to christian teachings.the young are always susceptable to radicalism!?believe what they're told by those they are beholdin to.but it's all plainly explained in the bible,despite it's "incomprehensibleness'!(top that one "W"!!).
    question.do you remember being any different in character(perception) then you are now!?did you have any life changing emotional or mental event!?do you remember your childhood well!?how far back!? :eek: :p :rolleyes:

  11. #27
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    Lexx, if I wasn't inquisitive, why try to find out any of it? I don't know near enough about any of it, if I did, I guess I'd stop trying to find out.

    You know I'm not a literalist when it comes to my own bible, and I don't see why yours should be any more privileged.

    Will Hashem stop being Hashem if we sort out history from myth? Do facts demolish G-d? If they do, I think maybe we've got the wrong idea about G-d, regardless of what religious beliefs we hold. Is it a chance so horrible that it shouldn't be taken?

  12. #28
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    Re: Jesus and Maria Magdelina's Relationship

    testing 123

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