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  1. #81
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Does taking a look at evolution and the Bible tell us anything about the Bible being accurate? I need to look back through old threads in this religious forum and I bet I would find some excellent discussion and debate posted here about evolution and the Bible.


    https://www.icr.org/article/53/

  2. #82
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    I've read some of the other materials you speak about but they were dismissed as not credible, which is why they were not included in the Bible.
    If you read about those gospel rejections, you will notice it came from important Catholic leaders. On what basis, do we consider them to be holy? It appears they made themselves better than Jews, better than the OT prophets, better than anyone who disagreed with their new Catholic theology. They were religious tyrants, not holy men. Like most religious leaders, they were concerned with maintaining church authority. They had already made up their minds that Jesus was the son of God, it fit with church dogma. To maintain order, they set about destroying conflicting gospels. What we have today are gospels that survived the Catholic purge.

    My argument is based on a careful analysis of the historical documents. The first gospels, the ones immediately following the death of Jesus, made no mention of Jesus being the son of God. I understand the need for a son of God. People shy away from God, they want a substitute, a sort of pagan god to worship. It is illogical and nonsensical to pray to a human god. The better explanation is God is a duality. Why would God have a son? When was his son born? If God is eternal, what is the son of God? He would be a strange kind of mortal? The better explanation is there is no son of God. As for me, I prefer to go directly to God. I don't believe in substitutes, or pagan gods.
    Last edited by Cnance; 08-25-2016 at 05:05 PM.

  3. #83
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    If you read about those gospel rejections, you will notice it came from important Catholic leaders. On what basis, do we consider them to be holy? It appears they made themselves better than Jews, better than the OT prophets, better than anyone who disagreed with their new Catholic theology. They were religious tyrants, not holy men. Like most religious leaders, they were concerned with maintaining church authority. They had already made up their minds that Jesus was the son of God, it fit with church dogma. To maintain order, they set about destroying conflicting gospels. What we have today are gospels that survived the Catholic purge.

    My argument is based on a careful analysis of the historical documents. The first gospels, the ones immediately following the death of Jesus, made no mention of Jesus being the son of God. I understand the need for a son of God. People shy away from God, they want a substitute, a sort of pagan god to worship. It is illogical and nonsensical to pray to a human god. The better explanation is God is a duality. Why would God have a son? When was his son born? If God is eternal, what is the son of God? He would be a strange kind of mortality? The better explanation is there is no son of God. As for me, I prefer to go directly to God. I don't believe in substitutes, or pagan gods.
    What about Mary, Joseph and the virgin birth? If Jesus was God how and when did he appear? Also you've stated you feel God is a duality, was Jesus a duality?

    What about my question concerning evolution? Does evolution fit with what the Bible has to say or what you've concluded from your research?
    Last edited by PeggieSue; 08-25-2016 at 05:05 PM.

  4. #84
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    What about Mary, Joseph and the virgin birth? If Jesus was God how and when did he appear? Also you've stated you feel God is a duality, was Jesus a duality?

    What about my question concerning evolution? Does evolution fit with what the Bible has to say or what you've concluded from your research?
    I once spent considerable time research Mary, Joseph and other NT gospel characters. I found no historical records for Mary and Joseph. I believe they were made up by gospel authors. The more I research those kind of questions the more I believe Jesus just popped into the world. Assuming Jesus was God, it is easy to assume he didn't need earthly parents. I believe he came into the world to fulfill his own prophesies in the OT about the coming Messiah. He came for his chosen people. It is interesting how Christians have reinterpreting his purpose. They think Jesus came into the world for them. Furthermore, Christians have condemned Jews with stories about Jews crucifying Jesus. It is all there in the NT gospels. Subsequently, we have hundreds of years of Christian persecution of Jews. I've often wondered how much Christian discrimination contributed to the holocaust. European Christians did little to stop Hitler's murderous campaign to eliminate Jews.

    As for your question about Jesus being a duality, the answer is yes because Jesus was God, and God is a duality. If you read early gospels, you find Jesus talking about himself as another person. No one has done that kind of analysis. Even for the NT gospels, you find duality references ("You see me and you see my father"). I believe followers of Jesus were unable to understand him as two persons. Therefore, they came up with interesting interpretations. They rewrote what he said to conform to a human sense of oneness.

    Almost forgot about the evolution question. Science has proven evolution. I am more confident about what science says about evolution than what people say about the Bible. As for the Bible, I had a dream posted on my dream thread. It was about the Jewish OT. A voice said, "it happened, but not that way." That says volumes. We know God intervened in human history. All we have now is an imperfect Bible. Based on my dreams, God tried to establish a holy order with his chosen people, but it didn't work out. The key to understanding our fate is "obedience to God." It is based on my dream about God's chosen people. A voice said, "they didn't obey my commandments, not one single commandment." Evidently, God is stricter than many in the religious community think. Obedience is key for understanding salvation. If humans can't obey God they have no relationship with Him. Humans are left to their own devices. Subsequently, humans die and turn to dust.

    The obedience issue is extremely important. According to my dreams about heaven, angels surround God throughout eternity. They do not have separate worlds where they assert their independence. Much of religious proposals about heaven discuss humans in separate worlds with family, or groups with similar interests. Each religion seems to have their own view of heaven, with clergy having the answers. It is interesting, to be a pastor you believe you are going to heaven, and that you know more than your parish about heaven. In truth, no one really knows. From my dreams I know God is holy, beautiful and eternal. It seems there are no alternatives, either you obey God or you have no existence beyond the grave.
    Last edited by Cnance; 08-25-2016 at 11:36 PM.

  5. #85
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    ok on the duality of jesus or all mankind for that matter.....what is it!? if 1 part is god then what is the other part!? or maybe i should say, what is a man made of besides flesh and bone!?
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  6. #86
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    yah the clergy supposedly enjoy a special/inspired relationship to god!
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  7. #87
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    obeyance is simply a matter of hearing and understanding. we can see that even in ordinary human interactions! and actually there is NO hearing without understanding! possibly understanding and knowing are interchangeable! and possibly knowledge is a presence! a presence of mind!
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  8. #88
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    ok on the duality of jesus or all mankind for that matter.....what is it!? if 1 part is god then what is the other part!? or maybe i should say, what is a man made of besides flesh and bone!?
    Cnance didn't answer my question to him about God and Jesus being a duality. Cnance has explained he knows God is a duality and that Jesus was God, why not two of Jesus if God was a duality? Are the two Gods physically connected, can they be separated? The description Cnance gave of God sounded to me like two Gods that wouldn't choose to separate because they were in unison. I would lean toward thinking the two Gods were male and female but Cnance hasn't said he feels they had a gender.

  9. #89
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    Cnance didn't answer my question to him about God and Jesus being a duality. Cnance has explained he knows God is a duality and that Jesus was God, why not two of Jesus if God was a duality? Are the two Gods physically connected, can they be separated? The description Cnance gave of God sounded to me like two Gods that wouldn't choose to separate because they were in unison. I would lean toward thinking the two Gods were male and female but Cnance hasn't said he feels they had a gender.
    we could even speculate man is a soul, a god,(spirit) and a gender!? yup that makes 3!!
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  10. #90
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    we could even speculate man is a soul, a god,(spirit) and a gender!? yup that makes 3!!
    Man doesn't fit the definition of a Christian God.

  11. #91
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    Cnance didn't answer my question to him about God and Jesus being a duality. Cnance has explained he knows God is a duality and that Jesus was God, why not two of Jesus if God was a duality? Are the two Gods physically connected, can they be separated? The description Cnance gave of God sounded to me like two Gods that wouldn't choose to separate because they were in unison. I would lean toward thinking the two Gods were male and female but Cnance hasn't said he feels they had a gender.
    I answered the question. I said Jesus was God and God is a duality. As for their appearance, I had a dream about the two Gods in a sphere together surrounded by angels. Another time, I was sitting in my living room when I had a vision of two shiny pearls next to one another, they were permanently attached. I posted this on my dream thread. My interpretation is the two Gods are different but always together. It has always been that way. Before God created angels, they were their own companions. I have researched duality in nature, it comes up everywhere. It is God's signature on his creation. Duality is not difficult to find. Study chemistry, biology, cosmology, laws of physics and you will find indisputable evidence for duality in nature. Then, there is human anatomy, two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, etc. Most species have components reflecting duality. If you dig into the atomic world, you will find a lot of duality structures. As for gender, I don't think it applies to God. I suppose because he created creatures you could say he is female. However, he came into the world as a male (Jesus), so it is really mixed up. His creatures may have gender, but God is unlike his creatures. That is about as much as I know about God's duality. I don't think the duality of nature thesis has been thoroughly researched. I believe further research would reveal a lot of dualities in the universe.
    Last edited by Cnance; 08-26-2016 at 10:35 PM.

  12. #92
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    Re: Did Jesus think of himself as the son of God?

    i was just musing.......when god created adam, things were fine!? then god created woman and things went to hell!?
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