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Thread: Rule 21 Envoked

  1. #1
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    Rule 21 Envoked

    Just this hour Harry Reid envoked rule 21, which closes the doors to the senate and demands a discussion into the lack of progress into the phase two investigation that intelligence was misused to put our country at war. In my opinion this is the only way to catch the Republicans offguard, because when you give them a chance to get their lies together, it will be almost impossible to get to the bottom of corruption that's going on in the white house. I have been away from this forum for awhile, we have an important govenors race in my state, that's keeping me very busy. I had to post this news to strike up some thoughts.

  2. #2
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy4887
    Just this hour Harry Reid envoked rule 21, which closes the doors to the senate and demands a discussion into the lack of progress into the phase two investigation that intelligence was misused to put our country at war. In my opinion this is the only way to catch the Republicans offguard, because when you give them a chance to get their lies together, it will be almost impossible to get to the bottom of corruption that's going on in the white house. I have been away from this forum for awhile, we have an important govenors race in my state, that's keeping me very busy. I had to post this news to strike up some thoughts.

    Soooo, apparently Fitzgeralds two-year "non-partisan, by-the-book, in-depth" investigation, NOW isn't good enough. If he would just do as he is told!

    I do not ever want to hear another liberal stand up for "fitz". You have decided, yourselves, that he is incompetent.

    Who says the dems don't have any ideas? Why, that's just crazy-talk! LOL

  3. #3
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    pwrone, it is my udnerstanding that Patrick Fitzgerald was not investigating the validity of pre-war intelligence. If I am correct, he is, and was, investigating the alleged leak of the identity of a CIA Non-Official Cover operative - possibly from the White House.

    Now there is conjecture by many people that these two issues are related, but Reid invoking "Rule 21" in order to discuss the progress (or lack there-of) of the investigation into pre-war intelligence in the Senate is not related to Fitzgerald's legal inquiry.

  4. #4
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Soooo, apparently Fitzgeralds two-year "non-partisan, by-the-book, in-depth" investigation, NOW isn't good enough. If he would just do as he is told!

    I do not ever want to hear another liberal stand up for "fitz". You have decided, yourselves, that he is incompetent.

    Who says the dems don't have any ideas? Why, that's just crazy-talk! LOL
    Your comments are pure nonsense, you cartoon [email protected] Profile1
    (R6025 - C++ RunTime Library Error Type: REASON: Invalid Virtual Function Call. VFAT12 failed to initialize GUI_DCOM2000 FAT32 File System Manufacturer: Microsoft Corporation=1,0,1)


    There are other serious investigations and investigators than Fitzgerald and his LEAKGATE team that are questioning the motives of the Bush administration and the national intelligence gathering services in the 9/11 attacks and subsequent run-up to the wars in Afghanistan that are costing this nation's people an unholy fortune in money and lives.

    Senator Reid is doing is job to invoke Rule 21 and force debate in the Senate.
    It is only hoped that THE U.S.SENATE.ORG (Y!ahoo Groups 1-50State Case)
    will be able to ...STOP THE WAR PIMPS...(Soooooeeeeeeee! OINK.WAV PIGZ)

  5. #5
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by ZylogZ80
    pwrone, it is my udnerstanding that Patrick Fitzgerald was not investigating the validity of pre-war intelligence. If I am correct, he is, and was, investigating the alleged leak of the identity of a CIA Non-Official Cover operative - possibly from the White House.

    Now there is conjecture by many people that these two issues are related, but Reid invoking "Rule 21" in order to discuss the progress (or lack there-of) of the investigation into pre-war intelligence in the Senate is not related to Fitzgerald's legal inquiry.

    The fervent hope of democrats was that fitzgeralds findings would constitute a 'smoking gun'...not conjecture--it is clearly what they were looking for. Also, it might be useful to note that this document has been released by this investigation:

    http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf

    Again, while critical of many things, it stops short of condemning the President, something democrats have bet the future of their party on.

    This stunt is a direct response to the President not nominating a liberal judge. This makes the democrats look desperate and the SCOTUS hearings will reveal some of their 'beliefs'...

    You would think they would get used to losing...they should be by now.

  6. #6
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    I can hardly wait for the DOOFUS hearings and revocation of your license to have a www.opinion.com/opinions (MSN SPACE BLOGOSPHERE Member ID: 'pwrone') and MS-DOS protected right to WRITE a TEXT MESSAGE for PUBLIC CONsumption...%PNG%
    Option 1 + Persona Non Grata
    Optical 2 + 2 = 4.00 Portable Network Graphic file READER Adobe Systems, Inc. a-dink

  7. #7
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Soooo, apparently Fitzgeralds two-year "non-partisan, by-the-book, in-depth" investigation, NOW isn't good enough. If he would just do as he is told!

    I do not ever want to hear another liberal stand up for "fitz". You have decided, yourselves, that he is incompetent.

    Who says the dems don't have any ideas? Why, that's just crazy-talk! LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    The fervent hope of democrats was that fitzgeralds findings would constitute a 'smoking gun'...not conjecture--it is clearly what they were looking for. Also, it might be useful to note that this document has been released by this investigation:

    http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf

    Again, while critical of many things, it stops short of condemning the President, something democrats have bet the future of their party on.

    This stunt is a direct response to the President not nominating a liberal judge. This makes the democrats look desperate and the SCOTUS hearings will reveal some of their 'beliefs'...

    You would think they would get used to losing...they should be by now.
    Hi Pwrone,

    Why is everything that happens seen by you as sinister, devious, underhanded, or wrong? There could be a LOGICAL reason why this rule was invoked. Why can't you just wait and see, before deciding there is some "stunt" in progress?

    DO NOT ask me what the logical reason is, the Senate session is in secret, and we might find out and we might not. It is up to the discretion of the Senate, as stated in the Constitution (Article 1 section 5), the Senate and House rules.

    IF, they are going to discuss CIA documents, national security information, and the like, in many ways it is their DUTY to close a session.

    Do you want a resolution to this situation or not? Do you want to know beyond a reasonable doubt, the truth or untruth of the CIA leak allegations?

    I for one want to know, one way or the other,

    DeeDee1965

  8. #8
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Count me in too, DeeDee.

    Personally, I want to know how and why intelligence that was available for a year prior to the 9/11/2001 attacks never was distributed to agencies that could have taken some steps to interdict the attack before it happened.

  9. #9
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    Hi Pwrone,

    Why is everything that happens seen by you as sinister, devious, underhanded, or wrong? There could be a LOGICAL reason why this rule was invoked. Why can't you just wait and see, before deciding there is some "stunt" in progress?

    DO NOT ask me what the logical reason is, the Senate session is in secret, and we might find out and we might not. It is up to the discretion of the Senate, as stated in the Constitution (Article 1 section 5), the Senate and House rules.

    IF, they are going to discuss CIA documents, national security information, and the like, in many ways it is their DUTY to close a session.

    Do you want a resolution to this situation or not? Do you want to know beyond a reasonable doubt, the truth or untruth of the CIA leak allegations?

    I for one want to know, one way or the other,

    DeeDee1965

    It WAS a stunt, and that is why they did it...they way in which it was done exposes them as the gutless vermin that they are. No honor, no decency inside these reprehensible creatures. All that you need to know about today is that Roberts and Rockefeller will release the report on Nov. 14th...as it was agreed to weeks ago. In other words, there was NO REASON for this cheap and dirty political stunt, least of all the one reid spewed. Most, even a CNN analyst(who was jumped on immediately) agree with the notion that it is a message about the fight they intend to bring about Alito, a fight they cannot win(how unusual). Why don't you join a political party that is interested in moving forward instead of backward? A party whose members are not afraid to question their leaders and bring about change. The dems are led by reid and feinstein and dean and a host of other crackpots...good Lord, when will someone save the democrtats from the liberals? The only ones who think like liberals are liberals. That is why they lose and lose. If the democrats allow these scum to represent them and speak for them, then I guess they get what they deserve. Think of a man like Joe Lieberman...I would vote for him before half of the republicans I can name. But because he thinks for himself, you don't hear much about him. The media is wary of him because you never know when he will pop out with something that isn't moveon.org mandated.


    T70...how fast did that able danger 'probe' go away? YIKES! For some reason, this is not getting the attention it deserves(demands). It is sure to be mainly critical of clinton and his staff...and sandy berger was allowed to run giggling into the night with his undies stuffed full of classified docs from the 9-11 investigation...I don't know the answer . But it seems rather..um...important.
    Last edited by pwrone; 11-02-2005 at 01:50 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Harry Reid throwing a temper tantrum on the senate floor? I better invest in Kleenex, I think he plans on doing this every couple of days until he gets the results that he "thinks" are true. Ridiculous! So, he's unhappy with the bi-partisan senate intel committee finding on Iraq prewar intelligence???? I wonder if he wants Lord Butler to redo his report too - As long as it's redone to match Harry boys conspiracies. What a loon! :cool:

  11. #11
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Pwrone,

    Stunt? I do not know, and neither do you. You have no idea what my party affiliations are, so let us leave that one alone, shall we?

    And you have not answered my questions:
    Do you want a resolution to this situation, or not?

    Do you want to know, beyond a reasonable
    doubt, the truth or untruth of the CIA allegation?

    Speaking of "STUNTS:"

    The judge in Tom Delay's trial has been removed, because he was a democrat, and he gave money to Moveon.org. Judges are put on the bench to be the, for lack of a better word, a referee in a trial. Their party affiliations do not play a part in their job performance. And those judges who have allowed that to happen are impeached.

    So why remove the judge from the Tom Delay trial? Stunt, perhaps?

    DeeDee1965

  12. #12
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider
    Harry Reid throwing a temper tantrum on the senate floor? I better invest in Kleenex, I think he plans on doing this every couple of days until he gets the results that he "thinks" are true. Ridiculous! So, he's unhappy with the bi-partisan senate intel committee finding on Iraq prewar intelligence???? I wonder if he wants Lord Butler to redo his report too - As long as it's redone to match Harry boys conspiracies. What a loon! :cool:
    Looked to me like it was Bill Frist who was throwing the temper tantrum. I am sure that you and the rest of the neo con wackos are real happy with the intel committee's finding on prewar intelligence. You guys are always pleased with half the truth. You have to be shakin in your shoes that the whole truth will finally emerge and show that the intelligence was fixed. That's why the Republicans have been stalling for almost two years.

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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Did CSPAN leave the microphones on? Harry Reid was calling for closed door sessions to bolster the call for a more complete investigation into the Iraq pre-war intelligence. He wants further digging above which the senate committee found to be factual. It looks like good old Harry is going to bandy about some of this pre-war intel.....

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

    "Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

    "(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

    "Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

    "There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

    "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

    "The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

    "I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

    "Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

    "Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

    "The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

    "I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

    "Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

    "There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

    "The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

    "(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

    "Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

    "As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

    "Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

    "Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

    "Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

  14. #14
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi
    Looked to me like it was Bill Frist who was throwing the temper tantrum. I am sure that you and the rest of the neo con wackos are real happy with the intel committee's finding on prewar intelligence. You guys are always pleased with half the truth. You have to be shakin in your shoes that the whole truth will finally emerge and show that the intelligence was fixed. That's why the Republicans have been stalling for almost two years.
    Do you even read what you write? Lets examine:I am sure that you and the rest of the neo con wackos are real happy with the intel committee's finding on prewar intelligence

    I can only infer that until you get the result you want, only half the truth is out. Is that what you mean...unless the result is what you think it should be--go back and keep trying? What sanctimonious crap! This is page one in the ronnie earle book of jury shopping.

  15. #15
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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Seems to me Pwrone and Raider that both of you would rather this issue never came to light for good or bad. That you rather live in ignorance instead of walking in the light of the truth.

    We have a right to know beyond a shadow of a doubt, if there was valid reason to invade Iraq, tear up an entire country, spend billions of dollars and sacrifice 2,000 plus lives for this war. As a people we have a right, and the congress has a moral obligation to account to the American People, the people of Iraq AND our allies for the validity OR NOT of this war and to lay rumor and suppositions to rest.

    And I would think that even the two of you would get off your Neocon soapboxes and welcome the chance to shut down the rumors and Democrats and rub the results in our faces once and for all. I would think, as loyalists, that you would want your commander-in-chief, the president whom you back without question to be vindicated and placed back on his pedestal. If he as innocent as you think this should be a cake walk and over with very quickly.

    Or are you afraid that you have been suckered into a Giant, Political Scam and those "damned Liberals" were right all along?

    Lady Mod

    The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice: Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
    Last edited by sojustask; 11-02-2005 at 05:15 AM.

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    Re: Rule 21 Envoked

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Do you even read what you write? Lets examine:I am sure that you and the rest of the neo con wackos are real happy with the intel committee's finding on prewar intelligence

    I can only infer that until you get the result you want, only half the truth is out. Is that what you mean...unless the result is what you think it should be--go back and keep trying? What sanctimonious crap! This is page one in the ronnie earle book of jury shopping.
    Ok pwrone, looks like I'm gonna have to walk you through this one. The Senate Intelligence Committee was to conduct a two phase investigation on the government's actions and statements on Iraq in the period before the start of the war. The first phase was completed and released on July 17, 2004. It's this part of the investigation that I am referring to when I say that the neo con wackos are happy with. It showed that a lot of the information received from the CIA was incorrect. This is what you right wingers use to defend Bush when anyone points out that there were no weapons of mass destruction found.

    The second phase of the investigation has never taken place because the Republicans have been stonewalling it. That is the reason for what happened today. The second phase of the investigation, which has not yet been started, addresses how senior policy makers used the intelligence. There is also disagreement as to what impact that statements on Iraq by senior members of the Bush administration had on the intelligence process. In other words, was the intelligence fixed? For some reason, and maybe you can explain, the conservatives do not appear to want to enter into this discovery.
    We only know half of the story. The results will be what the results will be and not what I think they should be nor what you think they should be.

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