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  1. #33
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    Here's a great video. What if gawd were a car?

    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  2. #34

    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    Now your using joefools tactic...being a spelling nazi isn't a very solid position in terms of the point in contention. Yes, I meant "peer"...
    It is when all I was trying to be was a smartass.

    So knowledge, ALL knowledge is based on faith then, unless you prove it yourself?! Really??
    Its based on what we think we know. Not necessarily what is TRUE. People had faith in physicians 200 years ago and blood letting was the preferred, acceptable practice. We put our faith in the people WE believe to have knowledge.

    The scientific method. Which is pretty much useless for religious purposes.
    Can't speak for others but my journey has been all about the process. The refinement of my faith. The more I know and the more I experience shapes my view of the universe.

  3. #35
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    what if faith and religion are NOT the same thing!? i already suggested believing and faith are not the same thing!? faith being the ability to DO believing being the mental imagination that 1 can DO!? so maybe we should say religion and believing are similar or the same!? and also the question says PRESENCE not MATERIAL existence!? so what does presence mean in that SENSE!? present and accounted for!? the teacher calls your name and your not paying ATTENTION, so she repeats its till you ANSWER.......::spin2::smurf::king22:
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  4. #36
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    that was a good video!? it appears to be an argument about the intellectual persuasion vs reality you might say!? reality determined by VISUAL/SENSORY response which while we can all relate to such STIMULUS in many common ways we also know of people who have such experiences that are completely individualized and therefor perplexing you might say for others!? science does not tend to allow for individualized experience outside the lawful norms you might say!? because that does not compute, and cannot be counted on to represent the orderly recognition of most commonly observed events and phenomena!? and if we bring in the concept of FEELING it still represents an INFERIOR aspect of science because it is so subjective as opposed to objective you might say!? i would speculate that feeling is the realm of the gods!? god meaning an authority of mind that CANT DIE in the sense we normally detect/determine death!? intellect is NOT mind itself but just a function that is capable of choosing based on reasoning rather than impulse!? call it an ELECT-tor of feelings!? all KNOWLEDGE of REALITY comes from feeling although the available differences in feeling tend to distort our COMMON perception which we would call first/original/or correct perception!? perception is the final product of all the functioning aspects of our mental makeup!? and when i say makeup i mean it LITERALLY.......we MAKE IT UP!? but not on our own but with the help of MIND which is not a LOCKDOWN aspect of our mentality although it CAN BE MADE so and indeed seems to be the goal of TRUE maturity you might say!? another point i'd like to speculate about is the idea of sight being influenced by feeling!? the problem with this is where this happens!? it happens IN mind not OUT of mind yet for the experiencer of such abberations you might say it happens OUT THERE so to speak!? which we all know by the term PROJECTION?! so that leads us to the aspect of mind called IMAGINATION!? another aspect of mind determined by FEELING you might say!? at any rate LIFE is found in FEELING not in intellectualizing or imagining!? although they are all part of the mind functions!? what i'm trying to say is FEELING is the SOURCE of EVERYTHING we experience!? and there are likely only 2 ROOT feelings you might say!? LIFE, or DEATH and the all the attributes of either are expressed outwardly by actions and tendencies!? so we could say people are merely representatives of life or death!? so religion when properly implemented as an educational TOOL is about life or death decision making IN MIND!? not just the more common IMMEDIATE decisions that can crop up like dodging a bullet but the more subtle decisions like long term health and happiness!? done thru the mental recognition of the differences of the subtle characteristics of LIFE and DEATH!? it is this recognition process that can be said to be TRUE RELIGION?! so to put it simply stated......life is just a FEELING, good or bad!? everything else is just window dressing!? of course we are a complex managery of feelings so no such absolute black and white representation is seen in existence!? we could speculate that LIFE is HAPPINESS and anything else is DEATH!? or life feels GOOD while DEATH feels BAD!? of course just considering this by using the intellect is not necessarily sufficient to alter 1's habits of perception!? the other necessary element required is IMPRESSION!? that being a quality of FEELING!? i would speculate that all language belongs to the intellect although the intellect does not have the capacity to speak!? all speaking comes from feeling!? life in essence promises FREEDOM which in a sense means everything is FREE!? of course freedom of mind and freedom of body are 2 different things although so closely related is hard to seperate so we can say freedom of mind is hampered by the freedom of body which is determined by the 5 senses as they are called!? the word spirituality kinda represents the seperating of the 2 different aspects of perception!? so the more godly you become the less sensual you become!? in the sense you trade 1 perception source for another!? so we could also say faith is the trading of 1 source of perception for another the spiritual over the sensual!? of course the only way that would happen is if we determine thru feeling that the spiritual is SUPERIOR to the sensual based on the feeling of HAPPINESS ALONE!? in other words, happiness without the possiblity of unhappiness!? so in theory, the presence of god SHOULD be accompanied by/experienced as......absolute irrefutable HAPPINESS or in other words JOY!? and this then would be KNOWN as the first PRIORITY of LIVING?! so then the question would be..........so WHY does this APPEAR NOT to be HAPPENING!? well as you can see........its a LONG STORY once you get stuck with it!? ing1::freak3::smurf:
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  5. #37
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    Sorry sweetpawn, but that's just a load of delusional religious CRAP. You're trapped in your own head...

    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  6. #38
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    A big part of the issue us that people want to be able to examine and study God. That isn't going to happen.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  7. #39
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by joefool
    A big part of the issue [i]s that people want to be able to examine and study God. That isn't going to happen.
    Of course it isn't going to happen, gawd isn't real! He's a figment of your ego/imagination. You 'believe' because you want to...

    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  8. #40
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    i have to DISAGREE with that last cartoon....god DOES GRANT personal favors while letting big suffering/death go on!! it seems to ME that this ATHEIST OPINION is based on the idea of a GOOD ONLY god!? or should i say is PLAYING off the idea that god is good(only)!? wanna explain that ......heine!? : :spin2: :cwm14:
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  9. #41
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    of course if we want to keep it simple....."YOU" are the evidence of gods presence!? try to be a GOOD god.....willya!?:
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  10. #42
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    of course if we want to keep it simple....."YOU" are the evidence of gods presence!? try to be a GOOD god.....willya!?:
    Interesting opinion. That's all it is...you can't prove a whiff of it though, can you? Keep the faith, it's all you got!

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i have to DISAGREE with that last cartoon....god DOES GRANT personal favors while letting big suffering/death go on!!
    So, he's not omnipotent, or he's indifferent, or, he doesn't exist.

    I opt for the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    it seems to ME that this ATHEIST OPINION is based on the idea of a GOOD ONLY god!? or should i say is PLAYING off the idea that god is good(only)!? wanna explain that ......heine!?
    As I said, he's either not all powerful, he can't do anything about it, or he doesn't care, or, the obvious answer IMO he doesn't exist.

    Check this out...

    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  11. #43
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    So Ohein's video shows that earth was created by God. Glad we finally got there.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  12. #44
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    "As I said, he's either not all powerful, he can't do anything about it, or he doesn't care".(oheine)which then you rationalized as.....he dont exist!? ok, for some reason you LIKE that video alot!? fits your mindSET!? the intersting part of the video is the portrayal of god as an inept child!? the bible says become like little children!? which could mean on the 1 hand to lose your LEARN-ED prejudices....hehe....:
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  13. #45
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    the other point about the video is that it says people all make up their own versions of god you might say but actually SO DOES THE LEAD CHARACTER in the video!? he designs HIS perfect god acting in perfect ways!? it seems to me that from all i can reason out myself about this subject is that life is a TEST!? to me god is NOT confusing in the sense that everything relates to his WAYS on many levels observable in ordinary living. like so like god you might say. all of the DEMANDS placed on god by those that DONT understand whats going on in the bigger picture are just UNdereducated about life, lacking experiences that change 1's thinking. in other words they take for granted the FREE RIDE they are enjoying till the shit hits the fan....:
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  14. #46
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    the other point about the video is that it says people all make up their own versions of god you might say but actually SO DOES THE LEAD CHARACTER in the video!? he designs HIS perfect god acting in perfect ways!?
    And that doesn't suggest anything to you? If he's so mighty make himself known to all of us and quit playing this cat and moouse bullshit. ZERO gods have ever been proven to ever exist. that's ZERO!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    it seems to me that from all i can reason out myself about this subject is that life is a TEST!?
    For every living thing, yep!
    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    to me god is NOT confusing in the sense that everything relates to his WAYS on many levels observable in ordinary living.
    That's not confusing at all, perfectly clear...u-huh!:

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    like so like god you might say.
    More clarity?!
    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    all of the DEMANDS placed on god by those that DONT understand whats going on in the bigger picture are just UNdereducated about life, lacking experiences that change 1's thinking.
    Lame...you wont "believe" until you take a "leap of faith", THEN he'll reveal himself!! What a load...
    Quote Originally Posted by lexx
    in other words they take for granted the FREE RIDE they are enjoying till the shit hits the fan
    Yep...then it's...
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  15. #47
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    Re: What is evidence for God's presence ?

    lets say in order to understand god you have to understand the workings of living/life. this takes time and experience. like i said before gods ways are reflected in everything that HAPPENS to you and others. he has given you freedom of choice and you are choosing to use that freedom to waste time denying his influence because some put on a hypocritical act you find offensive might say. its like the glass half full/empty decision!? its all in how you see things that determines your choices. i was once a god hater/denier too for many of the same reasons as you. so i know all the spiel about no god etc. again, compare this to any kind of ignorance against any new kind of knowledge. definate pattern there. call it the human resistance to new knowledge syndrome. can even be violent if pressed to hard. your proposal to become free of god and do good based on reason is really dangerous. you cant eradicate belief in god thru suggestions or arguments on any scale to effect any good results you seek. your illusion is based on youth and inexperience. but on the flip you might somehow contribute to a better understanding of god by causing more indirect proofs to be revealed. like cool said god will not be subjected to mass examination but he is easily found by individual examination not of him, but of life. this examination starts by acccident, because accidents happen and no 1 knows why. they happen cause its a law of as we know it.
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