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  1. #1
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    Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    SS has a $2.8 trillion surplus
    SS can pay out every benefit owed to every eligible person for nearly two decades
    SS
    has not contributed one penny to the deficit because it is independently funded by the FICA payroll tax.

    Proposed “tweaks” to Social Security would hurt seniors, disabled veterans and people with disabilities
    ===========================

    MAY THE POS NAMED REAGAN BURN A SLOW DEATH IN HELL ...


    http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/#sthash.eKvNMqTm.dpuf



    Instead of being a proud day for America, April 20, 1983, has become a day of shame. The Social Security Amendments of 1983 laid the foundation for 30-years of federal embezzlement of Social Security money in order to use the money to pay for wars, tax cuts and other government programs. The payroll tax hike of 1983 generated a total of $2.7 trillion in surplus Social Security revenue. This surplus revenue was supposed to be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury bonds that would be held in the trust fund until the baby boomers began to retire in about 2010. But not one dime of that money went to Social Security.

    The 1983 legislation was sold to the public, and to the Congress, as a long-term fix for Social Security. The payroll tax hike was designed to generate large Social Security surpluses for 30 years, which would be set aside to cover the increased cost of paying benefits when the boomers retired.

    Let’s have a look at the events leading up to this proposal. Reagan and the government had big financial problems. Supply-side economics was not working like Reagan had promised. Instead of the lower tax rates generating more revenue as the supply-siders claimed would happen, there was a dramatic drop in revenue. Something had to be done, so Ronald Reagan set for himself a new mission. He would have to figure out a way to get the additional revenue he needed from another source.
    ...

  2. #2

    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Complete nonsense. Only in an upside world would could someone call a Ponzi scheme a a program with a surplus . There is no surplus, its broke today. They stole the money . The ss scheme is funded with Treasuries ( a promise to pay from a government that's broke ) , after being raided by both parties.
    Why?, cause that's what governments do.
    Wake up
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  3. #3
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by brucefan View Post
    Complete nonsense. Only in an upside world would could someone call a Ponzi scheme a a program with a surplus . There is no surplus, its broke today. They stole the money . The ss scheme is funded with Treasuries ( a promise to pay from a government that's broke ) , after being raided by both parties.
    Why?, cause that's what governments do.
    Wake up
    To call Social Security a Ponzi scheme and to imply that it is broke because it is funded with what is arguably the safest investment in the world, Treasuries, is a crock of right wing bullshit.

  4. #4
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Lockbox

  5. #5

    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi View Post
    To call Social Security a Ponzi scheme and to imply that it is broke because it is funded with what is arguably the safest investment in the world, Treasuries, is a crock of right wing bullshit.
    Right, its totally logical to pay off my debt on my American express card, with money I borrowed from my Visa

    Im good for it
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  6. #6
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by brucefan View Post
    Right, its totally logical to pay off my debt on my American express card, with money I borrowed from my Visa

    Im good for it
    If this is suppose to be some type of analogy as to how social security is funded, it fails.

  7. #7

    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi View Post
    If this is suppose to be some type of analogy as to how social security is funded, it fails.
    Really, this should be fun

    Tell me how its different ?


    Ill wait
    Last edited by brucefan; 07-17-2015 at 11:12 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by brucefan View Post
    Really, this should be fun

    Tell me how its different ?


    Ill wait
    Experience has taught me that it is worth neither my time nor effort to go through this exercise with you. So I guess you will be waiting until hell freezes over on this. I will however give you a hint though I doubt it will make one iota of difference. A credit card is borrowed money. The Social Security Trust Fund is not borrowed money but a prepaid account funded by tax dollars which, by law, are invested.

  9. #9

    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi View Post
    Experience has taught me that it is worth neither my time nor effort to go through this exercise with you. So I guess you will be waiting until hell freezes over on this. I will however give you a hint though I doubt it will make one iota of difference. A credit card is borrowed money. The Social Security Trust Fund is not borrowed money but a prepaid account funded by tax dollars which, by law, are invested.

    Your serious ? When the government issues treasury bonds, that is not debt because it's funded by taxpayers ? There is so much here that I don't even know where to even start

    Wait, and the tax dollars are " invested " :rasta:
    Last edited by brucefan; 07-18-2015 at 11:38 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by brucefan View Post
    Your serious ? When the government issues treasury bonds, that is not debt because it's funded by taxpayers ? There is so much here that I don't even know where to even start

    Wait, and the tax dollars are " invested " :rasta:
    He's 100% right Bruce......about one thing.

    It's pretty much useless to discuss something like this with a person like him. He's probably one of those people who think the government has been a good steward of the people's money.

  11. #11
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by brucefan View Post
    Your serious ? When the government issues treasury bonds, that is not debt because it's funded by taxpayers ? There is so much here that I don't even know where to even start

    Wait, and the tax dollars are " invested " :rasta:
    Of course treasury bonds are debt to the federal government but they are a return on investment for the SS trust fund. It's a pretty simple concept to understand. By law SS trust fund surpluses are invested in treasury bonds just like the billions throughout the world's economy. Why? Because US treasury bonds are the safest investment in the world.

  12. #12
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    He's 100% right Bruce......about one thing.

    It's pretty much useless to discuss something like this with a person like him. He's probably one of those people who think the government has been a good steward of the people's money.
    By a person like me do you mean someone who doesn't buy into the right wing bullshit? Whether the government has or has not been a good steward of the people's money is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

  13. #13

    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi View Post
    Of course treasury bonds are debt to the federal government but they are a return on investment for the SS trust fund. It's a pretty simple concept to understand. By law SS trust fund surpluses are invested in treasury bonds just like the billions throughout the world's economy. Why? Because US treasury bonds are the safest investment in the world.
    Ok let's so down a bit.

    Remember, they stole the money that was supposed to be in " lock boxes" ,originally for this Ponzi scheme .


    And now you are making the case that because of the way they acct. for the debt, its not just creating more debt?

    If investing were that easy, why not quadruple the size of the trust fund and really crank up the returns
    If this was public company, the auditors would be in jail for that trick !

    And another thing ......

    You keep referring to treasuries as the a safest asset in the world, which is subjective, and that perception can change very quickly .

    My question is do you know who is the largest holder of these treasuries, the safest asset in the world ?

    I'll wait again .......
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  14. #14
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Ok let's so down a bit.

    Remember, they stole the money that was supposed to be in " lock boxes" ,originally for this Ponzi scheme .
    Who is "they" and how have "they" stolen the money? Should someone notify the police?

    And now you are making the case that because of the way they acct. for the debt, its not just creating more debt?
    Again, who is "they"? Social Security is a pay as you go system that uses the FICO taxes coming into the system to pay the benefits going out of the system. Only surplus taxes go into the SS trust fund and currently the fund is selling and not buying to make up the difference between income and payout. The trust fund has enough money to continue to pay out full SS benefits for the next 25 years. If nothing is done to replenish it, then it will be depleted and SS will only be able to pay 75% of the current benefit amount.

    If investing were that easy, why not quadruple the size of the trust fund and really crank up the returns
    If this was public company, the auditors would be in jail for that trick !
    Investing is not easy that is why the SS administration purchases special issue bonds that are not available for public trading. The bonds are not some wildly speculated investment but rather instruments to safeguard the trust fund. Having monies flow back into the trust fund is a great idea and several politicians have suggested raising the cap on FICO payments that would make the trust fund solvent for many years to come. Conservative, on the other hand, want to extend the trust fund by raising retirement age and decreasing benefits. There is no trickery in the way that the trust fund is audited.
    And another thing ......

    You keep referring to treasuries as the a safest asset in the world, which is subjective, and that perception can change very quickly .
    The treasuries that are used to fund SS are the safest investment in the world. Only a complete collapse of the US economy would produce a default, in which case we are all screwed. It ain't gonna happen.

    My question is do you know who is the largest holder of these treasuries, the safest asset in the world ?
    Yes, I know. Do you?

    I'll wait again .......

  15. #15

    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi View Post
    Ok let's so down a bit.

    Remember, they stole the money that was supposed to be in " lock boxes" ,originally for this Ponzi scheme .
    Who is "they" and how have "they" stolen the money? Should someone notify the police?

    And now you are making the case that because of the way they acct. for the debt, its not just creating more debt?
    Again, who is "they"? Social Security is a pay as you go system that uses the FICO taxes coming into the system to pay the benefits going out of the system. Only surplus taxes go into the SS trust fund and currently the fund is selling and not buying to make up the difference between income and payout. The trust fund has enough money to continue to pay out full SS benefits for the next 25 years. If nothing is done to replenish it, then it will be depleted and SS will only be able to pay 75% of the current benefit amount.

    If investing were that easy, why not quadruple the size of the trust fund and really crank up the returns
    If this was public company, the auditors would be in jail for that trick !
    Investing is not easy that is why the SS administration purchases special issue bonds that are not available for public trading. The bonds are not some wildly speculated investment but rather instruments to safeguard the trust fund. Having monies flow back into the trust fund is a great idea and several politicians have suggested raising the cap on FICO payments that would make the trust fund solvent for many years to come. Conservative, on the other hand, want to extend the trust fund by raising retirement age and decreasing benefits. There is no trickery in the way that the trust fund is audited.
    And another thing ......

    You keep referring to treasuries as the a safest asset in the world, which is subjective, and that perception can change very quickly .
    The treasuries that are used to fund SS are the safest investment in the world. Only a complete collapse of the US economy would produce a default, in which case we are all screwed. It ain't gonna happen.

    My question is do you know who is the largest holder of these treasuries, the safest asset in the world ?
    Yes, I know. Do you?

    I'll wait again .......


    They represent Our Illustrious politicians from both parties
    The trust fund is filled with debt, do you understand ? You cant invest in your own debt? You cant write yourself a check and pretend you have an asset?

    There would be no one getting paid anything unless new workers are continuing to pay into the system. You just admitted it was pay as you go system. There are no funds actually invested in anything that can generate future returns There is no funded retirement acct with your name on it , anywhere. . If social security was some insurance program, the money should be invested for me right? With SS, Any money paid in today , is spent, today ! That's the definition of a Ponzi scheme !

    One more time, My question is do you know who is the largest holder of these treasuries, the safest asset in the world ?
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  16. #16
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    Re: Social Security ... not the lies from the Hannity crowd

    Quote Originally Posted by bairdi View Post
    By a person like me do you mean someone who doesn't buy into the right wing bullshit? Whether the government has or has not been a good steward of the people's money is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
    It absolutely is not irrelevant to this discussion, it's key to this discussion. It's government worshiping liberals that want to pretend there is nothing wrong, just like you're doing here. SS is currently the very definition of a ponzi scheme, as you have admitted without knowing it, and as brucefan illustrated previously.
    Last edited by Jax74; 07-20-2015 at 10:11 PM.

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