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  1. #1
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    Is Satan real or imaginary?

    In the Bible, Satan is a central player. Satan tempted Adam and Eve in paradise, he tempted Job to turn against the Lord, and he committed other evil acts.

    The comedian said, "the devil made me do it!" However, it may be true, Satan may possess people and make them do evil.

  2. #2
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    yah i cant disagree with you there.......we could also propose that the devils influence if we can call it that has DEGREES!? what determines these degrees could make for an interesting INQUISITION?! :spin2::freak3::chicken:
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  3. #3
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    In the Bible, Satan is a central player. Satan tempted Adam and Eve in paradise, he tempted Job to turn against the Lord, and he committed other evil acts.

    The comedian said, "the devil made me do it!" However, it may be true, Satan may possess people and make them do evil.
    Satan is no more real than most anything found in your ancient 'holy' book of myths and fables...or your dreams.
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  4. #4

    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Satan is no more real than most anything found in your ancient 'holy' book of myths and fables...or your dreams.
    It certainly sounds better to have a Satanic foil than to accept the fact that humanity on its own volition can perform the depth of depravity and its acts of evil on each other.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    very good point.......but the UN-religious feel we dont have to resort to religion/it's doctrines/lables to deal with these ills!? to them its just a DIS-EASE!? and of course that's true also!? :errr: :freak3: :spin2::smurf:
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  6. #6
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by noagenda View Post
    It certainly sounds better to have a Satanic foil than to accept the fact that humanity on its own volition can perform the depth of depravity and its acts of evil on each other.
    Yep, "the devil made me do it", sure is convenient, isn't it?

    So if u do something bad its the devil, and if u do something good it's gawd? Is that how you play it?
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  7. #7

    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Yep, "the devil made me do it", sure is convenient, isn't it?

    So if u do something bad its the devil, and if u do something good it's gawd? Is that how you play it?
    I would say its more like who do YOU serve ? If YOU do something bad you're serving the devil. If YOU do something good you're serving God. There are no "victims" here. It's all about free will.

  8. #8
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by noagenda View Post
    I would say its more like who do YOU serve ? If YOU do something bad you're serving the devil. If YOU do something good you're serving God. There are no "victims" here. It's all about free will.
    Again!!, I thought u said u were a deist?!

    You're sounding like a christian, once again?!
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  9. #9

    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Again!!, I thought u said u were a deist?!

    You're sounding like a christian, once again?!
    That's because you have a narrow view of spirituality. It's either "Christian" or it's not. There are many faiths that consider the cause and effect or karmic consequences of one's actions. The real understanding that there are positive and negative, good and evil, Yin and Yang, God and the Devil. That both flow from an original singular source. I have no idea if the concept of Satan is literally a "fallen angel" who rebelled against God. I do believe a person can either be guided by a spiritual or an earthly influence. When driven by one's ego much evil is derived. When one looks to be part of something greater then themselves much good comes from it. Its always of one's own choosing. So how is that an exclusively "Christian" tenet ?

  10. #10
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by noagenda View Post
    That's because you have a narrow view of spirituality. It's either "Christian" or it's not. There are many faiths that consider the cause and effect or karmic consequences of one's actions. The real understanding that there are positive and negative, good and evil, Yin and Yang, God and the Devil. That both flow from an original singular source. I have no idea if the concept of Satan is literally a "fallen angel" who rebelled against God. I do believe a person can either be guided by a spiritual or an earthly influence. When driven by one's ego much evil is derived. When one looks to be part of something greater then themselves much good comes from it. Its always of one's own choosing. So how is that an exclusively "Christian" tenet ?
    'Serving' gawd, the devil, 'free' will...are all biblical/christian terms. Not deistic at all...sorry.

    You may very well lean towards deism now, but you're a christian through and through...
    it's odvious.
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  11. #11

    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    'Serving' gawd, the devil, 'free' will...are all biblical/christian terms. Not deistic at all...sorry.

    You may very well lean towards deism now, but you're a christian through and through...
    it's odvious.
    Again your narrow view. I never said I was a deist. I said it is probably the closest definition of how I currently see the afterlife. I won't be pigeon holed to suit your characterizations. I certainly am not offended or defensive if you want to call me a Christian. I don't see it as a dirty word. Walking such a path is not a bad way to go. Its just disingenuous for me to call myself one. When I could call myself a card carrying christian I wasn't locked in a cocoon of denial. I saw the hypocrisy, contradictions and narrow thinking of an organized group think. I have simply evolved from a dogmatic perspective. The basic tenets of good and evil, free will, serving a higher power are universal concepts of faith. God and the devil are just terms that can help identify a person's motives. Sorry your experiences with Christianity made you so hateful of it.

  12. #12
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Originally Posted by ohein56 'Serving' gawd, the devil, 'free' will...are all biblical/christian terms. Not deistic at all...sorry.

    You may very well lean towards deism now, but you're a christian through and through...
    it's odvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by noagenda View Post
    Again your narrow view. I never said I was a deist. I said it is probably the closest definition of how I currently see the afterlife. I won't be pigeon holed to suit your characterizations. I certainly am not offended or defensive if you want to call me a Christian. I don't see it as a dirty word. Walking such a path is not a bad way to go. Its just disingenuous for me to call myself one. When I could call myself a card carrying christian I wasn't locked in a cocoon of denial. I saw the hypocrisy, contradictions and narrow thinking of an organized group think. I have simply evolved from a dogmatic perspective. The basic tenets of good and evil, free will, serving a higher power are universal concepts of faith. God and the devil are just terms that can help identify a person's motives. Sorry your experiences with Christianity made you so hateful of it.
    I think your perspective is good. And yeah, I agree that there is hypocrisy within the walls of the church. That's because church goers and Christians are still imperfect humans, no different than atheists in that perspective.

    But overall, I believe the church also does a lot of good. Where I come from, real estate is very expensive and as a result, many churches rent space in public schools on Sunday and a lot of schools benefit from this as the churches will install things like fans, sound systems and things that the school can use. There are also beautification projects and I know of a church that catered lunch for the entire school faculty. The church is far from perfect but I can also see a lot of good coming from it overall.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  13. #13
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    Without Satan we would not be here. It was because of his rebellion in heaven that God created the universe, Satan's prison. For reasons unknown, God created paradise in the universe. Unfortunately, Satan interrupted paradise by attacking God and his creatures. Humans evolved from the fall of paradise (about 65 million years ago) and you know the rest of the story. After angels informed God about a new species trying to dominate earth, God intervened (Bible).

    http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?637753-Dinosaurs-in-Paradise!

  14. #14
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    "I would say its more like who do YOU serve ? If YOU do something bad you're serving the devil. If YOU do something good you're serving God. There are no "victims" here. It's all about free will."

    by this definition you are claiming man has NO CHOICE!? or maybe its more accurate to say he chooses based on....... WILL!? so what is WILL anyway!? what INFLUENCES his CHOICES!? why would anyone do BAD if he could always do GOOD!? arnt his CHOICES based on SITUATIONS and CIRCUMSTANCES and DESIRES!? so really how can he be said to have FREE will!? isn't it just a LEGAL term of potentiality!? sorta like you TOO can become rich if you just........blah blah blah!? :elvis::rryumy::chicken::spin2:
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  15. #15
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    I don't think you can ignore freewill. You can argue we have no freewill because when born we are stuck with certain determinants, but within those boundaries we have freewill. Prisons are full of people who make wrong choices. There is evidence for consequences. Assuming Satan didn't have freewill, how do you explain him? Would you say God made him rebel in order to have fun playing around with evil? : Based on what we know about choices, that doesn't make sense.

  16. #16
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    Re: Is Satan real or imaginary?

    AHA......can freewill be IGNORED!? i guess it can!? otherwise why would people make wrong choices as you put it!? surely EMOTIONS/DESIRES are the strongest forces against freewill!? but lets put this in the context of a civil society?! are all people EQUALLY confronted with BAD CHOICES!? what PROTECTIONS against such choices are AFFORDED some and NOT others!? and without EARS to HEAR which simply means the TIME to CONSIDER 1's choices or a STRONG conscience what chance given the UNforgiving forces of NATURE/men do people have of making RIGHT CHOICES!? with the constant PROMOTION of FEARS that make for GOOD BUSINESS PROFITS where is the idea of SELF DENIAL realized which i am implying going against the PREDOMINANT cultural PRACTICES especially if they are NOT life or death at least not in the short run!? do we HAVE to resort to a THEOCRATIC authority structure to get ourselves out of this MESS!? :king22::rotz::freak3::spin2:
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