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  1. #1
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    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

    I agree with this 110%. MLM defenders will try to justify the massive amounts of MLM distributors that fail to make a profit by re-classifying them as customers. This is obviously inaccurate, for two reasons:

    First, the business opportunity is marketed as a business opportunity, not as a buyer's club. A customer can buy products from an Amway distributor at the distributor's cost, which makes it unnecessary to join as an IBO, just to buy products only. I learned this when a friend in Amway showed me her business. She sold to her warm market at cost, since no one would pay full retail. She still received a PV benefit, so it was worthwhile. She told me that the other distributors, uplines and crosslines under her Platinum were doing the same.

    Second, there is a marked lack of brand loyalty in MLM. Using Amway as an example, I've seen claims of 50% - 90% yearly attrition depending on where you look. If the Business Reference Guide says that approx. 46% of IBO's are active, then Amway's yearly attrition rate begins at 54% (the inactives), + however many additional active IBO's also quit each year. Clearly it's not about consuming the products. Even with only a 54% yearly attrition rate, 95% of IBO's in Amway right this minute will not be in Amway (and also not consuming their products) in 5 years.

    Why someone would pay extra for Amway products instead of shopping in Costco and supermarkets baffles me, unless there is financial motivation to do so (the comp plan). In addition to the sign-up and yearly fees, there is also the shipping costs. These are Amway's costs:

    Tax & Delivery Charges
    Standard Delivery*
    $0–$49.99 $6.75
    $50–$119.99 $11.75
    $120–$299.99 $16.75
    $300–$749.99 $21.75
    $750 or more FREE

    http://www.amway.com/support/orderin...ns-and-Charges

    Now, I pay $50/year for my Costco membership. Their prices are far better than Amway's costs. If I were to order under $50 worth of products on Ditto every month (Amway's autoship), that's an additional cost of $81/year ($6.75 x 12 months). If I'm ordering $150 worth of products every month, I'm paying an extra $201/month plus the yearly fee.

    No one is going to pay extra for the things they already use by buying from MLM (via mark-up to fund the comp plan, discussed on another thread), and then also pay a yearly fee and shipping costs. The typical consumer goes to supermarkets and convenience stores on a regular basis. The convenience of getting drop shipping from internet orders isn't much of a benefit if the consumer goes to grocery stores, which nearly every household does.

    MLM distributors are not customers; they joined with profit in mind. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to deceive you. The facts speak for themselves. The numbers don't lie.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm126; 05-10-2015 at 01:29 PM.
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  2. #2
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

    I agree with this 110%. MLM defenders will try to justify the massive amounts of MLM distributors that fail to make a profit by re-classifying them as customers. This is obviously inaccurate, for two reasons:

    First, the business opportunity is marketed as a business opportunity, not as a buyer's club. A customer can buy products from an Amway distributor at the distributor's cost, which makes it unnecessary to join as an IBO, just to buy products only. I learned this when a friend in Amway showed me her business. She sold to her warm market at cost, since no one would pay full retail. She still received a PV benefit, so it was worthwhile. She told me that the other distributors, uplines and crosslines under her Platinum were doing the same.

    Second, there is a marked lack of brand loyalty in MLM. Using Amway as an example, I've sen claims of 50% - 90% yearly attrition depending on where you look. If the Business Reference Guide says that approx. 46% of IBO's are active, then Amway's yearly attrition rate begins at 54% (the inactives), + however many additional active IBO's also quit each year. Clearly it's not about consuming the products. Even with only a 54% yearly attrition rate, 95% of IBO's in Amway right this minute will not be in Amway (and also not consuming their products) in 5 years.

    Why someone would pay extra for Amway products instead of shopping in Costco and supermarkets baffles me, unless there is financial motivation to do so (the comp plan). In addition to the sign-up and yearly fees, there is also the shipping costs. These are Amway's costs:

    Tax & Delivery Charges
    Standard Delivery*
    $0–$49.99 $6.75
    $50–$119.99 $11.75
    $120–$299.99 $16.75
    $300–$749.99 $21.75
    $750 or more FREE

    http://www.amway.com/support/orderin...ns-and-Charges

    Now, I pay $50/month for my Costco membership. Their prices are far better than Amway's costs. If I were to order under $50 worth of products on Ditto every month (Amway's autoship), that's an additional cost of $81/year ($6.75 x 12 months). If I'm ordering $150 worth of products every month, I'm paying an extra $201/month plus the yearly fee.

    No one is going to pay extra for the things they already use by buying from MLM (via mark-up to fund the comp plan, discussed on another thread), and then also pay a yearly fee and shipping costs. The typical consumer goes to supermarkets and convenience stores on a regular basis. The convenience of getting drop shipping from internet orders isn't much of a benefit if the consumer goes to grocery stores, which nearly every household does.

    MLM distributors are not customers; they joined with profit in mind. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to deceive you. The facts speak for themselves. The numbers don't lie.
    Everyone who joins has a choice:
    A) To learn the skills and apply them consistently over time, or
    B) To not learn the skills and either just be a product user, or quit completely.

    If your choice is B) then I would agree, its better not to join for the business.
    If your choice is A) then it would better joining an MLM rather than Costco, because, as far as I know Costco doesn't operate a business opportunity for the public.

  3. #3
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Everyone who joins has a choice:
    A) To learn the skills and apply them consistently over time, or
    B) To not learn the skills and either just be a product user, or quit completely.

    If your choice is B) then I would agree, its better not to join for the business.
    If your choice is A) then it would better joining an MLM rather than Costco, because, as far as I know Costco doesn't operate a business opportunity for the public.
    Almost no one makes any income in MLM, so those that chose A) would have been much better off working OT/second job and putting that info into a defined contribution retirement account, or earning a degree or certificate in an employable field.

    #opportunitycost
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  4. #4
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Just to add: You'll find that most ''wholesale customers' are people who joined to build a business but quit, but stayed with the products because they like them and see them as good value.

  5. #5
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Almost no one makes any income in MLM, so those that chose A) would have been much better off working OT and putting that info into a defined contribution retirement account, or earning a degree or certificate in an employable field.

    #opportunitycost
    They are not making any income because they are not providing any sales volume. The main reasons for that is because they either do nothing or little, or they try for a while but because they haven't learn't how to do it properly, they fail at it. That's not the fault of MLM, that's their fault.

  6. #6
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Just to add: You'll find that most ''wholesale customers' are people who joined to build a business but quit, but stayed with the products because they like them and see them as good value.
    Source for that claim?

    If true which it's not, they won't typically last a year as a supposed customer anyway, due to the high attrition rate.
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  7. #7
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    They are not making any income because they are not providing any sales volume. The main reasons for that is because they either do nothing or little, or they try for a while but because they haven't learn't how to do it properly, they fail at it. That's not the fault of MLM, that's their fault.
    The MLM is equally to blame. The system is set up to give the lion's share of profits to the upline, look at any comp plan and then the IDS to see this, and the products are often generic/average, but the asking price is higher than non-MLM competition.

    The new distributor is entering into a losing proposition to begin with, regardless if they do what they're supposed to in trying to build their business.
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  8. #8
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Source for that claim?

    If true which it's not, they won't typically last a year as a supposed customer anyway, due to the high attrition rate.
    Yes its true of my downline and everyone else I've ever spoken to about it, from small distributors right up to large one. My own upline who has hundreds of thousands of distributors has said publicly many times that about 80% of their downline are just customers. I believe it also came out in Herbalife's official figures.

    Au contraire, these are often the type of customers (that's what they are when they give up on the business and carry on using products) that stay ordering products for ever.

  9. #9
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    The MLM is equally to blame. The system is set up to give the lion's share of profits to the upline, look at any comp plan and then the IDS to see this, and the products are often generic/average, but the asking price is higher than non-MLM competition.

    The new distributor is entering into a losing proposition to begin with, regardless if they do what they're supposed to in trying to build their business.
    The system is set up to reward the most those who provide the most sales volume.

  10. #10
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    The system is set up to reward the most those who provide the most sales volume.
    You know, I will not even argue with that.

    The absolute fact still remains almost everyone who joins an MLM makes almost no income or loses money so they would be better off spending that time and money on something else.

  11. #11
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by dank111 View Post
    You know, I will not even argue with that.

    The absolute fact still remains almost everyone who joins an MLM makes almost no income or loses money so they would be better off spending that time and money on something else.
    You can't argue with it because it's a fact.

    They are better doing something else if they aren't prepared to learn and work. If they are, its a very good business to be in with a very high probability of success.

  12. #12

    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by dank111 View Post
    You know, I will not even argue with that.

    The absolute fact still remains almost everyone who joins an MLM makes almost no income or loses money so they would be better off spending that time and money on something else.
    The flaw here is that the vast majority of people making no money are not spending any time or money on MLM, so this argument is a wash.

    I have no disagreement with the idea that people would usually be better off doing something rather than nothing, though unlike you I do think they should be willing to take risks, whether with MLM or anything else.

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


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  13. #13
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle
    The system is set up to reward the most those who provide the most sales volume.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    You can't argue with it because it's a fact.

    They are better doing something else if they aren't prepared to learn and work. If they are, its a very good business to be in with a very high probability of success.
    The system doesn't reward the person who provides the most sales volume. It rewards your spot on the product pyramid.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  14. #14
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    The system doesn't reward the person who provides the most sales volume. It rewards your spot on the product pyramid.
    You're not given a ''spot'', everyone starts the same place, at the bottom with no one in their downline. You then need to build up your volume by using and selling a bit and training others to do the same. Depending on that volume and other qualifications you will be rewarded. I thought you'd done this with Amway; they didn't give you a ''spot'' (downline) did they?

  15. #15
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    You're not given a ''spot'', everyone starts the same place, at the bottom with no one in their downline. You then need to build up your volume by using and selling a bit and training others to do the same. Depending on that volume and other qualifications you will be rewarded. I thought you'd done this with Amway; they didn't give you a ''spot'' (downline) did they?
    That's not true. Some people are "given" a spot. Go ask Clem Lemons.

    And people whose groups who jump from one MLM to another are another example.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  16. #16
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    Re: "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco"

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    That's not true. Some people are "given" a spot. Go ask Clem Lemons.
    Yes ''some'' are with ''some'' companies, but the majority build it from the bottom up.

    And people whose groups who jump from one MLM to another are another example.
    Again a minority.

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