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  1. #1
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    Sep 2005
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    What some of us learned yesterday.

    Hello All,

    I am not someone who likes to use webblogs are a source of information. However, this post on another message board, is so beautifully written, constructed, and puts into words my thoughts, I had to post it.

    Enjoy,
    DeeDee1965

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What I learned from Friday's events...

    The thing that spooks me most about the indictment and the press release is the timeline they lay out, in which it appears that every event that led up to the revelation of Plame's identity in the press was a direct response to what the Cheney team considered unfavorable media coverage of the case for war in Iraq. The timeline suggests a clear and repeatable pattern: a story breaks that challenges the case for war, Libby talks to Cheney et al about how they can best counteract it, Libby starts putting Valerie Plame's name around. Another story breaks, Libby has another conversation, later, rinse, repeat.

    What does this tell you, apart from the fact that Libby had no problem compromising national security in order to smear Joe Wilson?

    That manipulating the media for the specific purpose of holding together what everyone knew was a flimsy and bull**** case for war in Iraq was an acknowledged part of Libby's job description.


    Yeah, we live in the age of Rove, we are used to this...so used to it that we forget that this is a HUGE part of the problem. If these *******s put HALF the thought into actually running the country that they do into playing their little media games, we would not be where we are right now. We need to cop to just how wrong and dangerous it is that the people who run our country have blithely accepted the idea that the truth does not matter, that all that matters is defending your lies.

    What do we learn from Libby's indictment? Well, we knew it already, but can we step back for a moment and see it from the perspective of someone who still expects governments to make an honest and good faith effort to serve their people?

    1. Everyone in Cheney's crew was very concerned that the case for war with Iraq might collapse. And that's because they knew how flimsy it was. That's where the urgency about discrediting Wilson came from.

    2. So, they knew they had flimsy evidence to justify this war. Did this ever inspire them to question whether starting the war was a good idea? No. Obviously not. Because all they're thinking about, as we now learn, is how they're going to prevent Wilson from being taken seriously. Instead of, for instance, saying, gee, that claim might have been based on forged evidence? Let's look into that. I mean, wouldn't it be nice if we *didn't* have to go to war after all?

    3. They wanted this war. They wanted it regardless of the evidence, they wanted it regardless of the necessity, and they wanted it regardless of the truth. They wanted it badly enough to screw Plame, Wilson, the CIA, national security, the country, and, ultimately, all of us in order to get it.

    4. It was Libby's job, not to help us win a war, but to help us get into one. That's why he did this.

    This indictment makes public the worst thing about this government: that they actively and with great zeal went looking for--and when they didn't find them, creating--ways to start a war even though none was necessary. When, if they were a decent government that was not insane and not corrupt, they would want to avoid war whenever possible.

    We have always known that the Iraq war was something the administration wanted, sought, and finally got. We have always known that there was no reason we had to go to war, and that we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars and uncounted thousands of gallons of human blood not to achieve a greater goal, but simply because Dick Cheney and his gang wanted their war and Scooter Libby made a career out of making it happen.

    We always knew that; but nobody believed us. It has been put out in the open now. The rest of the country is hearing it from someone other than us. And, miracle of miracles, our Democratic so-called leaders have started to speak up about it.

    It is a good day.

    Yee ha,

    The Plaid Adder

    See link

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    12,866

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    If you read the book "The Price of Loyalty" you find out that the invasion of Iraq was discussed in the very first cabinet meeting that Bush had after he became president.

    Kind of scary that our country is in the hands of such Ideologists.

    Lady Mod

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,383

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    Hello All,

    I am not someone who likes to use webblogs are a source of information. However, this post on another message board, is so beautifully written, constructed, and puts into words my thoughts, I had to post it.

    Enjoy,
    DeeDee1965

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What I learned from Friday's events...

    The thing that spooks me most about the indictment and the press release is the timeline they lay out, in which it appears that every event that led up to the revelation of Plame's identity in the press was a direct response to what the Cheney team considered unfavorable media coverage of the case for war in Iraq. The timeline suggests a clear and repeatable pattern: a story breaks that challenges the case for war, Libby talks to Cheney et al about how they can best counteract it, Libby starts putting Valerie Plame's name around. Another story breaks, Libby has another conversation, later, rinse, repeat.

    What does this tell you, apart from the fact that Libby had no problem compromising national security in order to smear Joe Wilson?

    That manipulating the media for the specific purpose of holding together what everyone knew was a flimsy and bull**** case for war in Iraq was an acknowledged part of Libby's job description.


    Yeah, we live in the age of Rove, we are used to this...so used to it that we forget that this is a HUGE part of the problem. If these *******s put HALF the thought into actually running the country that they do into playing their little media games, we would not be where we are right now. We need to cop to just how wrong and dangerous it is that the people who run our country have blithely accepted the idea that the truth does not matter, that all that matters is defending your lies.

    What do we learn from Libby's indictment? Well, we knew it already, but can we step back for a moment and see it from the perspective of someone who still expects governments to make an honest and good faith effort to serve their people?

    1. Everyone in Cheney's crew was very concerned that the case for war with Iraq might collapse. And that's because they knew how flimsy it was. That's where the urgency about discrediting Wilson came from.

    2. So, they knew they had flimsy evidence to justify this war. Did this ever inspire them to question whether starting the war was a good idea? No. Obviously not. Because all they're thinking about, as we now learn, is how they're going to prevent Wilson from being taken seriously. Instead of, for instance, saying, gee, that claim might have been based on forged evidence? Let's look into that. I mean, wouldn't it be nice if we *didn't* have to go to war after all?

    3. They wanted this war. They wanted it regardless of the evidence, they wanted it regardless of the necessity, and they wanted it regardless of the truth. They wanted it badly enough to screw Plame, Wilson, the CIA, national security, the country, and, ultimately, all of us in order to get it.

    4. It was Libby's job, not to help us win a war, but to help us get into one. That's why he did this.

    This indictment makes public the worst thing about this government: that they actively and with great zeal went looking for--and when they didn't find them, creating--ways to start a war even though none was necessary. When, if they were a decent government that was not insane and not corrupt, they would want to avoid war whenever possible.

    We have always known that the Iraq war was something the administration wanted, sought, and finally got. We have always known that there was no reason we had to go to war, and that we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars and uncounted thousands of gallons of human blood not to achieve a greater goal, but simply because Dick Cheney and his gang wanted their war and Scooter Libby made a career out of making it happen.

    We always knew that; but nobody believed us. It has been put out in the open now. The rest of the country is hearing it from someone other than us. And, miracle of miracles, our Democratic so-called leaders have started to speak up about it.

    It is a good day.

    Yee ha,

    The Plaid Adder

    See link

    "yee ha"? DeeDee, at least you have declared your partisanship and can no longer take the high-ground of objectivity.


    BTW, thanks for the link...talk about a target-rich environment! yee-ha!
    Last edited by pwrone; 10-29-2005 at 10:27 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    12,866

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    "yee ha"? DeeDee, at least you have declared your partisanship and can no longer take the high-ground of objectivity.


    BTW, thanks for the link...talk about a target-rich environment! yee-ha!
    That pretty much means DeeDee that he feels you are now one of those maggot black people and he's not going to be civil to you anymore. He can now go back to being his usual Biggoted self when it comes to responding to you.

    I knew that fake civility wouldn't last long.


    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,088

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    Hello All,

    I am not someone who likes to use webblogs are a source of information. However, this post on another message board, is so beautifully written, constructed, and puts into words my thoughts, I had to post it.

    Enjoy,
    DeeDee1965
    Thanks for the post DeeDee.. :)

    The response you got from pwrone is typical of him... this is a prime example of what I explained to you about him... LOL ;)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    586

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    "yee ha"? DeeDee, at least you have declared your partisanship and can no longer take the high-ground of objectivity.


    BTW, thanks for the link...talk about a target-rich environment! yee-ha!
    What is your point? I cannot find a well written opinion informative? I did not say "yee ha" the writer of the post did.

    I may have a different political point of view then you, but when I am wrong, or I read something that challenges my POV, I do think about it. And if a different POV, makes more sense, I DO modify my thinking. So again, What is you point?

    DeeDee1965

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    586

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connecticut Victim
    Thanks for the post DeeDee.. :)

    The response you got from pwrone is typical of him... this is a prime example of what I explained to you about him... LOL ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    That pretty much means DeeDee that he feels you are now one of those maggot black people and he's not going to be civil to you anymore. He can now go back to being his usual Biggoted self when it comes to responding to you.
    I knew that fake civility wouldn't last long.
    Namaste'
    Lady Mod

    HI Lady Mod, and CV,

    I see what you are talking about. But since I am a "Pollyanna" I live in hope that Pwrone, is not going to give up on his civility.

    However Lady Mod, if Mr. Pwrone ever says anything remotely untoward to me, well let's just say, "No more Miss Nice Lady." You can take that to the bank. ;)

    DeeDee1965

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,383

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    That pretty much means DeeDee that he feels you are now one of those maggot black people and he's not going to be civil to you anymore. He can now go back to being his usual Biggoted self when it comes to responding to you.

    I knew that fake civility wouldn't last long.


    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

    WHAT?? How did you get this from what I wrote?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,383

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    HI Lady Mod, and CV,

    I see what you are talking about. But since I am a "Pollyanna" I live in hope that Pwrone, is not going to give up on his civility.

    However Lady Mod, if Mr. Pwrone ever says anything remotely untoward to me, well let's just say, "No more Miss Nice Lady." You can take that to the bank. ;)

    DeeDee1965

    Yeah...that is pretty much the point...I have never said anything remotely untoward to you so I would hope that you don't let the girls speak for me...I am capable of that myself. I have shown you respect as you have me and there is no reason to think either of us would change now. Your style of debate is unconfrontational...theirs not. I bet there is a clue in there somewhere for them.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    586

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Yeah...that is pretty much the point...I have never said anything remotely untoward to you so I would hope that you don't let the girls speak for me...I am capable of that myself. I have shown you respect as you have me and there is no reason to think either of us would change now. Your style of debate is unconfrontational...theirs not. I bet there is a clue in there somewhere for them.

    Hi Pwrone,

    OK, you and I are on the same page. :-) I enjoy our disagreements, so enough said.

    But you have accused me of on longer being able to "taking the high ground of objectivity," and to that, I ask again, what is your point?

    I can and do enjoy well written posts, articles, books, etc., And I do agree with the webblog I posted, so how does my enjoyment of good writing compromise my "objectivity?" Explain that to me, if you please.

    DeeDee1965

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    13,383

    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Well, up to that point it would have been difficult to discern your political leanings...afterwards, not so much. No point, just an observation.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Nunya
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    Re: What some of us learned yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    That pretty much means DeeDee that he feels you are now one of those maggot black people and he's not going to be civil to you anymore. He can now go back to being his usual Biggoted self when it comes to responding to you.

    I knew that fake civility wouldn't last long.


    Namaste'

    Lady Mod
    What some of us learned today

    Can anyone say race-baiting? Pretty heavy backpack some people seem to be toting around. sheeze!!!!!

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