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Thread: Ethical Void

  1. #17
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Ethical Void

    professionally, i am a digital arts management consultant, technical writer and factory/office operations safety/data security specialist. i have as high a security clearance for online research as you can possibly get for an independant municipal PC Technician. I design, install and troubleshoot micro-processor controlled equipment of a very 'wide spread-spectrum' (you know what a 'Secure Point-of-Sale Expert System' is?).

    i have had extremely high-level education and hands-on work experience in Marine Biology, Physical Biochemistry and Nuclear Medicine Research. Most people have never even heard of or are able to pronounce the names of some of the equipment i am qualified to operate (UTHSC-Dallas/Ob-Gyn/Neuroendocrinology prior to Reagan-era blacklisting as an 'unstable malcontent', kinda sorta like an American Scharansky or Sakharov; at least they don't lock up folks like me in nut houses forever in Amerikkka).

    racially/culturally, i am a full-blooded Hebrew-Israelite eclectic ecumenicist.
    Reconstruction Reform -- Union of American Hebrew Congregations (UAHC) -- Louis Binstock, D.D. Rabbi Emeritus is where my roots are buried deep in the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good AND Evil'.

    politically, i like to think of myself as a dispassionately pragmatic centrist who may swing across the spectrum on any given issue -- which is a real pain-in-the hindquarters for hard-core jack-assets AND AND ( ;&&; ) smellyphants.

    My political roots are deeply anchored in the 'Lakefront Liberal' Peace and Freedom Wing of Mayor Richard J. Daley's 'MACHINE POLITICS' and 'GOOMBAH ECONOMICS'.
    I was a National Federation of Temple Youth (NFTY) youth leader, Boy Scout Senior Patrol Leader and organizer for the 44th Ward (New Town, Wrigleyville) Young Democrats during the 'Fun Years (1965-75)'.

    Okay, so I was one of those bad 'Jew-boys' of the JDL too, but we were much more neighborhood protection oriented than the more notorious NY and LA chapters -- hell, even the Madtown WI chapter did crazier crap than we did.

    there's no point in re-hashing my opinion of the entire 'GEO-LIBS VS. NEO-CONS PARADIGM' baboonish chest-thumping, penis-shaking and head-butting ; if you don't know by now, you never will.

    personally, i could care less about your obsession with 'liberalism' and the 'liberal agenda'. if that's the only song you know, go ahead and sing it.

    where i am in complete agreement with Lady Mod is your persistant initialization of threads on this forum with aggressively provocative titles emphasized with excessive exclamation points. those are known as FLAMEBAIT and will get you banned from more tightly moderated forums in a hot Chicago second which is a brazillion times faster than a cold New York minute and infinitely more fast and dangerous than a cool time in LaLa Land (AOL < STYLE > $QUOTES$ < /STYLE > "MSN"="_"; ).

    if you don't understand that, you are a bigger fool than everybody accuses you of being.

    again, i stand on what i posted before. PLEASE FVCKING stop doing that here and use the thread that she wants you to use for your rants.

    On this forum try to go with the flow; post news articles and discuss them or post your own essays, but tone down the titles and try to be a little less redundant about liberalism in them.

    as they are, those threads cannot be called good journalism -- they are blogging at its worst. if you haven't read what USA Today Founder, Al Neuharth had to say on the subject yet, please read this: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=108851#post108851

    you need to rant about liberals or some newly perceived liberal outrage, go to your own little room and rant about it there, okay?

    Here, it is just disruptive and counter-productive.

  2. #18
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho70x
    professionally, i am a digital arts management consultant, technical writer and factory/office operations safety/data security specialist. i have as high a security clearance for online research as you can possibly get for an independant municipal PC Technician. I design, install and troubleshoot micro-processor controlled equipment of a very 'wide spread-spectrum' (you know what a 'Secure Point-of-Sale Expert System' is?).

    i have had extremely high-level education and hands-on work experience in Marine Biology, Physical Biochemistry and Nuclear Medicine Research. Most people have never even heard of or are able to pronounce the names of some of the equipment i am qualified to operate (UTHSC-Dallas/Ob-Gyn/Neuroendocrinology prior to Reagan-era blacklisting as an 'unstable malcontent', kinda sorta like an American Scharansky or Sakharov; at least they don't lock up folks like me in nut houses forever in Amerikkka).

    racially/culturally, i am a full-blooded Hebrew-Israelite eclectic ecumenicist.
    Reconstruction Reform -- Union of American Hebrew Congregations (UAHC) -- Louis Binstock, D.D. Rabbi Emeritus is where my roots are buried deep in the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good AND Evil'.

    politically, i like to think of myself as a dispassionately pragmatic centrist who may swing across the spectrum on any given issue -- which is a real pain-in-the hindquarters for hard-core jack-assets AND AND ( ;&&; ) smellyphants.

    My political roots are deeply anchored in the 'Lakefront Liberal' Peace and Freedom Wing of Mayor Richard J. Daley's 'MACHINE POLITICS' and 'GOOMBAH ECONOMICS'.
    I was a National Federation of Temple Youth (NFTY) youth leader, Boy Scout Senior Patrol Leader and organizer for the 44th Ward (New Town, Wrigleyville) Young Democrats during the 'Fun Years (1965-75)'.

    Okay, so I was one of those bad 'Jew-boys' of the JDL too, but we were much more neighborhood protection oriented than the more notorious NY and LA chapters -- hell, even the Madtown WI chapter did crazier crap than we did.

    there's no point in re-hashing my opinion of the entire 'GEO-LIBS VS. NEO-CONS PARADIGM' baboonish chest-thumping, penis-shaking and head-butting ; if you don't know by now, you never will.

    personally, i could care less about your obsession with 'liberalism' and the 'liberal agenda'. if that's the only song you know, go ahead and sing it.

    where i am in complete agreement with Lady Mod is your persistant initialization of threads on this forum with aggressively provocative titles emphasized with excessive exclamation points. those are known as FLAMEBAIT and will get you banned from more tightly moderated forums in a hot Chicago second which is a brazillion times faster than a cold New York minute and infinitely more fast and dangerous than a cool time in LaLa Land (AOL < STYLE > $QUOTES$ < /STYLE > "MSN"="_"; ).

    if you don't understand that, you are a bigger fool than everybody accuses you of being.

    again, i stand on what i posted before. PLEASE FVCKING stop doing that here and use the thread that she wants you to use for your rants.

    On this forum try to go with the flow; post news articles and discuss them or post your own essays, but tone down the titles and try to be a little less redundant about liberalism in them.

    as they are, those threads cannot be called good journalism -- they are blogging at its worst. if you haven't read what USA Today Founder, Al Neuharth had to say on the subject yet, please read this: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=108851#post108851

    you need to rant about liberals or some newly perceived liberal outrage, go to your own little room and rant about it there, okay?

    Here, it is just disruptive and counter-productive.

    While I would fight to the death your right to air your opinion, it does not mean that you are not incapable of recognizing your own 'contributions' to 'thread cohesiveness'. My posts are offensive to some because they have no answer for them...they stand there trying to figure out what went wrong when in fact nothing did; they simply agree with me. In your case, it is much more than a matter of firing personal insults at a furious clip...which I have seen you take entire pages to do...by claiming to have no political ideology, you are free to vehemently cuss out people because of who THEY are, not because of what they write. If you do not recognize, or choose to acknowledge, core differences between left and right, more's the pity. But it doesn't make you more qualified to discuss these matters, it makes you LESS qualified.

    Those links posted are NEWS stories...just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they are not happening in your country right now.

    aggressively provocative titles...is that what you said? Please...look around a bit before you blurt out something that stupid again...

  3. #19
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Ethical Void

    come on -- i recognize the 'core differences' -- i just refuse to opt-in to either side and that doesn't mean i'm claiming to have no political ideology, just that the Left/Right - Black/White - Us/Them mentality is de-evolutionary and non sequitur.

    Rabbi Emmanuel Bronner: We are one or we are none! Exceptions? Absolutely None!

    Are we not men? No? We are DEVO! (?We are? The fvck you say!!00.bin.done.b4H.323)

    and i won't deny going off either -- who doesn't around here? -- but tell me where else you see NEWS stories with MASTHEADS like you title your threads with all that mixed case screaming and strings of punctuation marks?

    Also, do you have any idea of what an exclamation point means to a computer?
    Do you know what the ASCII Character !! means? Do you know what a polynomial factorial function is? Do you know what the value of 100! is equal to? Have you ever heard the *[microspeak]* slang words "Bang" or "Bignum" ? (Clue: in Control Panel when a device is malfunctioning what do you see on the icon for the device under Device Manager tab?)

    One is usually plenty; 10 is overkill and makes you look like a hysterical idiot.

    As for "Those links posted are NEWS stories...just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they are not happening in your country right now.", you're going to need to be more specific, because i have no idea what you are referring to.

    lastly, you're starting to thrash a dead horse again, this conversation is getting redundant, i have made the points i wish to make and i still think you are disrespecting the entire membership by refusing to use your rant room and act with a little more dignity on the Politics forum (praise god you stay out of religions and the conspiracy zone -- i don't think those threads would survive your volatility).

    *[microspeak]* is defined in Harry Newton's Telecom Dictionary as a language of neo-logisms (new words) attributed to Microsoft Corporation.

  4. #20
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    On this forum, if your politics do not agree with those of the 'moderator', you are likely to have your posts edited or eliminated. One would think that at least the APPEARANCE of propriety would be important...but it is not. Did I threaten someone? NO. Did I use bad language? NO. I posted a tiny collection of news items demonstrating the liberal agenda in action...and she closes the thread and says she doesn't want liberal bashing threads. Unless you can bash the President, don't post...In other words, ANYTHING goes...except ACTUAL NEWS ITEMS about liberals. She is rightfully ashamed of her politics and realizes that there is no way to defend them. Isn't censorship one of those things that christie and ya'll are referring to when talking about fascism?

    Hi Pwrone,

    May I ask a question?

    If the people who defend "liberal" views, were to read, and analyze the news stories you post, read your point of view, and then gave you a counter argument, would that be acceptable to you?

    OR, do you want them to, process this information with the level of analysis you use and then, possibly change their minds?


    Labels have no real basis in fact.One person might experience something one day, and conclude, based on that experience that they are Liberal. On a different this opposite occurs, and they are suddenly a conservative. I guess what I am trying to say is, for the most part, everything is relative. Hard scientific facts, mathematics, biology, physics, and the rest of the physical sciences are proven with hard data.

    However the human mind, heart, civilization, and history, is another matter entirely. We are all changing our minds, moods, positions, desires, everyday, all day long. For the rest of our lives. That is the nature of the human being.

    Labels just do not work. Liberal, Conservative, Democrat, Republican, Communist, Socialist, Nazi, Black Panther, Feminist, Pro-choice, Pro-life, blah, blah, blah. In the long run, the labels, and many other do not amount to a hill of beans.

    Human compassion, and the Golden Rule, usually win in the end.

    DeeDee1965

    By the way:
    I am sorry again, I just want people to feel like they are being heard, and understood. I understand, and respect your passion, Pwrone. And I welcome and embrace it :)

  5. #21
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee1965
    Hi Pwrone,

    May I ask a question?

    If the people who defend "liberal" views, were to read, and analyze the news stories you post, read your point of view, and then gave you a counter argument, would that be acceptable to you?

    OR, do you want them to, process this information with the level of analysis you use and then, possibly change their minds?


    Labels have no real basis in fact.One person might experience something one day, and conclude, based on that experience that they are Liberal. On a different this opposite occurs, and they are suddenly a conservative. I guess what I am trying to say is, for the most part, everything is relative. Hard scientific facts, mathematics, biology, physics, and the rest of the physical sciences are proven with hard data.

    However the human mind, heart, civilization, and history, is another matter entirely. We are all changing our minds, moods, positions, desires, everyday, all day long. For the rest of our lives. That is the nature of the human being.

    Labels just do not work. Liberal, Conservative, Democrat, Republican, Communist, Socialist, Nazi, Black Panther, Feminist, Pro-choice, Pro-life, blah, blah, blah. In the long run, the labels, and many other do not amount to a hill of beans.

    Human compassion, and the Golden Rule, usually win in the end.

    DeeDee1965

    By the way:
    I am sorry again, I just want people to feel like they are being heard, and understood. I understand, and respect your passion, Pwrone. And I welcome and embrace it :)

    I respect and embrace you, too! I have to disagee with one point--while no one wants to have a label, and no label can sum up who a person is or account for any sort of nuance, a 'label' is useful in a political discussion becuse it narrows the argument. I post on this board with passion because I feel that the far-left agenda might be the end of us. I feel that it is the most important issue we face, and I fear that it's machinations are taking place away from the spotlight. History is filled with examples of this very thing...where the people do not know or do not care about incremental shifts away from healthy values and toward no values. Many others on this board feel that the clear and present danger is in the current leadership. They point out things about it that concern or enrage them, and I do the same thing with what I perceive to be the 'liberal' agenda. What I have done is use the label 'liberal' in my thread titles and deeply offended the moderator in doing so. Although I do not see any actual liberals on this thread, the left feel duty-sworn to defend the indefensible. I will never understand that. If I wanted to criticize democrats, I would start by pointing out that very thing...that their political party has been hijacked by radical liberals and no one will step up and say anything. It would be the same as skinheads or falwell assuming financial and philosophical control of the GOP and no one saying anything or even acknowledging it. I am not trying to change minds...my essential naivete and belief in the American human makes me believe that all I have to do is present the information and everything will be 'fine'! And I would never want to silence or edit anyone else's opinion...anywhere. I have learned things I did not know and been exposed to political positions and philosophies that I never had been before on this very board. How can that not be a good thing?

    T70--I have never posted anything anywhere else on the internet, so if I am violating protocols by posting incendiary threads then that will be my excuse. I don't know any better. However, as anyone with even a cursory glance can attest, a provocative title is the best indicator of the activity- the 'success'- of a thread. The most outrageous titles that anyone uses have always been the threads with hundreds of posts...it's just advertising! Show Biz, baby!

    lexx--Moral cleansing? Most people, when they reach their thirties, have developed, or not developed, their moral compass. The tyranny of thought that you consistently accuse me of is exactly what I am objecting to. A philosophy that is ingrained in our children by teachers that rewrite history, slant every discussion, and punish dissenting opinions.
    Last edited by pwrone; 10-22-2005 at 10:32 AM.

  6. #22
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    I post on this board with passion because I feel that the far-left agenda might be the end of us.
    Hey buddy... I think what you fail to see is that fact that this statement you make here GOES BOTH WAYS!! SEE:

    "I post on this board with passion because I feel that the FAR-RIGHT agenda might be the end of us".. ;)

  7. #23
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Hi Pwrone,

    A "far" anything is to the detriment of everything. Extreme views, regardless of the direction they pulling toward, are dangerous. There is another way to narrow the argument on a discussion board without labels. Give people the information about a particular issue. Let them digest the information, and ask for a debate on the information presented. Information is not necessarily good or bad. It depends on what people do with that information.

    CV made a good point by saying your argument cuts both ways. In fact it does, so now a stalemate exists. Nothing moves forward. The best way out of this juggernaut is to critically examine the information. Make a determination about it is validity, and usefulness, and then, if need be, compromise on the action that needs to be taken. Actually, it is all very simple. That is why it is so hard to do.

    The historical context of people not waking up until it is too late, so common, that if it was not so harmful, it might be funny. Again, the nature of the human being.:rolleyes: Also, in the nature of things, life is a cycle, and all things, in time WILL come around again. You can bet your life in that one. ;)

    DeeDee1965

  8. #24
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Ethical Void

    pwrone, i've been on the fringes of 'Show Biz' all my life and professionally absorbed in it since Ronald Reagan's 'conservative' profilers determined that I was unfit to participate in my chosen profession by whatever arbitrary criteria they use to create their blacklists. until then, my involvement had been strictly amateur community music theater and playing my saxophone on street corners and in the parks so as not to bother my neighbors with the noise at night.

    it has been my experience that ironic and metaphorical subtlety is far more effective at grabbing and holding an audience's attention than using a bullhorn. On the Internet, that seems to be even more true. I think you drive more participants away with your shouting and profanely judgemental, divisive proclamations than you attract.

    just an opinion; do with it what you will.

  9. #25
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    That may well be true, but I have NEVER done so and never would. Under any circumstances...ever.
    Huh.uh Then why would you presume to "censor" what I might decide to obtain for smoking, sniffing, injecting or otherwise ingesting in the privacy of my home? And, furthermore, countenance the enforcement of the "censorship" by jack booted Big-Government thugs with guns?

  10. #26
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie
    Huh.uh Then why would you presume to "censor" what I might decide to obtain for smoking, sniffing, injecting or otherwise ingesting in the privacy of my home? And, furthermore, countenance the enforcement of the "censorship" by jack booted Big-Government thugs with guns?
    Alright, that is fair. But the discussion was about changing the law, not inforcing it. If weed was legal, I would not be arguing to make it a crime. As far as "privacy of the home" it always spills out no matter what it is. Booze would be safe in the home, as long as the person was alone, with no sharp objects...no car keys, no front door, no street, no neighbors...

  11. #27
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Alright, that is fair. But the discussion was about changing the law, not inforcing it. If weed was legal, I would not be arguing to make it a crime. As far as "privacy of the home" it always spills out no matter what it is. Booze would be safe in the home, as long as the person was alone, with no sharp objects...no car keys, no front door, no street, no neighbors...

    All of the controlled substances laws conflict with principles of the first, fourth, ninth, and tenth amendments. Use of any drug, from the most benign to the most powerful, rightfully should be a protected a matter of personal choice, in the home or out.

    When irresponsible use of those substances, by the small percentage of users who abuse them cause harm in society, there are other laws that cover those infractions and violations should be prosecuted accordingly without punishing the entire population using the substance.

    Many liberals and conservatives alike believe that drug use is more of a public health issue than a criminal one. I think you can number dchristie, myself and quite a few other SCAM username(s) in that camp

  12. #28
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho70x
    All of the controlled substances laws conflict with principles of the first, fourth, ninth, and tenth amendments. Use of any drug, from the most benign to the most powerful, rightfully should be a protected a matter of personal choice, in the home or out.

    When irresponsible use of those substances, by the small percentage of users who abuse them cause harm in society, there are other laws that cover those infractions and violations should be prosecuted accordingly without punishing the entire population using the substance.

    Many liberals and conservatives alike believe that drug use is more of a public health issue than a criminal one. I think you can number dchristie, myself and quite a few other SCAM username(s) in that camp

    It might be nice for some but not for others...these 'rights' would by necessity victimize society in general. Lets make crack legal...what changes? Well, crack addicts still need their crack...and someone has to provide the money for it. They aren't going to work for it, they will steal and kill for it. Personal responsibility does not apply to addicts, so where does that leave people who are trying to work and make a life for themselves? In Britain, they used to give heroin addicts heroin--a policy that um, a certain unnamed political group is still lobbying for. It is insane to help people kill themselves...what can heroin addicts accomplish besides getting more heroin?

  13. #29
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Alright, that is fair. But the discussion was about changing the law, not inforcing it. If weed was legal, I would not be arguing to make it a crime. As far as "privacy of the home" it always spills out no matter what it is. Booze would be safe in the home, as long as the person was alone, with no sharp objects...no car keys, no front door, no street, no neighbors...
    Again, this is pure sophistry. There are already enough laws prohibiting public intoxication and driving under the influence. Ha!... In the “Land Of The Free” you can’t even end your own life without breaking the law. In fact, for a nation that holds itself out as a champion of "freedom" and having the presumptuous temerity to be quite ready to ram this brand of "freedom" down other's throats at gunpoint, don't you think it's odd that there are so many laws directed at eliminating and prosecuting so many aspects of personal and private behavior? I have lived in a number of other countries. Trust me. The USA isn't at the top of the list when it comes to freedom. Most Americans think they are free because that's what's drummed into their brains from infancy. In reality, they're so enslaved they wouldn't know freedom if it bit them on the ass. What's sad is that they don't even know it. The most effective way to enslave the masses is to convince them they are "free".

    In my opinion, there should be a Constitutional Amendment requiring that, for every new law that is added to the books, at least one of the thousands of arcane and draconian laws on the slate must be removed.

    One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible
    for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding
    citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws
    that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted --
    and you create a nation of law-breakers -- and then you cash in on guilt.
    Now that's the system...that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll
    be easier to deal with."


    - Ayn Rand
    Last edited by dchristie; 10-22-2005 at 03:38 PM.

  14. #30
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    Re: Ethical Void

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Alright, that is fair. But the discussion was about changing the law, not inforcing it. If weed was legal, I would not be arguing to make it a crime. As far as "privacy of the home" it always spills out no matter what it is. Booze would be safe in the home, as long as the person was alone, with no sharp objects...no car keys, no front door, no street, no neighbors...

    The more corrupt a nation the more numerous are its laws...Tacitus 95 A.D.

    .

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