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  1. #1
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    Mar 2005
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    Bush & Hitler: Making Torture Official State Policy

    In an extraordinary declaration of the brutality of American foreign policy, the Bush administration denounced a Senate vote to bar the use of torture against prisoners held by the US military. Responding to the passage of an amendment to a Pentagon spending bill—approved by an overwhelming 90-9 vote Wednesday, the White House said the proposal would “restrict the president’s authority to protect Americans effectively from terrorist attack and bring terrorists to justice.”

    The statement indicated that Bush would veto the entire appropriation, providing $440 billion to fund military operations for the next fiscal year, rather than accept the restrictions on interrogation techniques spelled out in the Senate amendment.

    The 90-9 vote came on an amendment sponsored by Senator John McCain of Arizona, a Republican and former prisoner of war in Vietnam. McCain, a fervent supporter of the war in Iraq, has opposed the use of torture in military facilities like Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo, because it damages US foreign policy interests and could become the pretext for subjecting captured American military personnel to the same techniques in retaliation.

    McCain’s amendment had the backing of two dozen former generals and admirals, including former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and former Secretary of State and JCS chairman Colin Powell. Forty-six Republicans, 43 Democrats and one independent voted for the amendment, which was opposed by only nine Republicans. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist voted with McCain and against the White House position.

    Frist delayed the introduction of the anti-torture language earlier this summer, maintaining that Congress should not put restrictions on the measures which the administration felt were necessary to fight the “war on terror.” But the events of the past three months, both in the increasingly bloody stalemate in Iraq and the feeble response of the federal government to the Gulf hurricane crisis, have weakened the Bush administration.

    The amendment itself is extremely limited in its scope. It simply prohibits “cruel, inhuman or degrading” treatment of those in the custody of the military and requires that questioning of prisoners detained by the military follow the existing U.S. Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation. No such restrictions would apply to those held by US intelligence agencies, such as the prisoners in the CIA-run detention centers at Bagram Airbase in Afghanistan, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, and at undisclosed locations elsewhere in the world. Those captives can still be tortured at will.

    During the final debate on the amendment, McCain read out a letter from former secretary of state Powell endorsing the measure, which Powell said would address “the terrible public diplomacy crisis created by Abu Ghraib.” It was the first time since his departure from office in January that Powell has publicly opposed the foreign policy of the Bush administration—a measure of the impact of the Iraqi debacle on the US foreign policy and military establishment.

    At a press briefing Wednesday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan confirmed that Bush would veto the entire appropriation bill rather than have his power to order torture restricted. McClellan made absurdly contradictory claims, declaring the amendment “unnecessary and duplicative” in view of current administration policy, which supposedly bans torture, and at the same time saying “it would limit the President’s ability as commander-in-chief to effectively carry out the war on terrorism.”

    The McCain amendment originates in an effort by senators with close ties to the Pentagon brass—McCain, in addition to being a celebrated POW, is the son of an admiral—to get the military off the hook for the abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo. In the course of the final debate, McCain cited complaints by top military officers over conflicting signals from the White House about what was permissible in the treatment of prisoners. “Confusion about the rules results in abuses in the field,” he said.

    This was a veiled reference to the infamous memos authored by the Bush Justice Department and the White House Legal Counsel’s office—then headed by the current attorney general Alberto Gonzales—that claimed presidential authority to ignore the Geneva Conventions and the International Convention Against Torture, based on Bush’s constitutional powers as commander-in-chief.

    Senators supporting the amendment cited the colossal impact of the Abu Ghraib revelations on world public opinion. Republican Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said, “The best thing we can do is give the guidance [the troops] need to make sure we can win the war on terror and never lose the moral high ground.”

    One factor in the top-heavy Senate vote was the recent testimony by a former Army captain, Ian Fishback of the 82nd Airborne Division, about systematic beating and mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners in early 2004, near Fallujah, a center of resistance to the US occupation. Fishback and two former sergeants in his unit have come forward, confirming that Abu Ghraib was not an exception, but rather typical of the treatment meted out to hundreds and thousands of prisoners across the country.

    Also contributing is the steady stream of revelations about torture at the Guantánamo Bay prison camp. Last month the US press carried reports on widespread hunger strikes among the prisoners at Guantánamo, with as many as 200 prisoners refusing food for as long as 45 days. At least 18 prisoners were hospitalized and several force-fed. The prisoners were protesting the conditions under which they are held, particularly the savage beatings by a notorious squad of military thugs known as IRF. They have also demanded the right to challenge their incarceration before an independent panel, as provided for under the Geneva Conventions, rather than appearing before the rigged military tribunals set up by the Bush administration.

    Article excerpted
    http://www.asiantribune.com/show_article.php?id=2751
    Last edited by dchristie; 10-08-2005 at 07:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2005
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    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    Must you compare Bush to Hitler. First of all it is a low remark. Even as someone who despises Bush, he shouldn't be compared to someone who engaged in mass genocide! It is kinda rediculous to compare an idiot to the symbol of human evil!!

    Plus I think Hitler's achievements and aspirations while horrendous are far beyond what someone of Bush's intelligence level could ever reach. To suggest that Bush could ever reach the same level of political and military achievement as Hitler is absurd. Don't forget that Hitler was a self-made person while Bush had huge financial support not to mention a political and business network that would make it difficult for even the biggest idiot to fail toget to power.

  3. #3
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    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by mroels
    Must you compare Bush to Hitler. First of all it is a low remark. Even as someone who despises Bush, he shouldn't be compared to someone who engaged in mass genocide! It is kinda rediculous to compare an idiot to the symbol of human evil!!

    Plus I think Hitler's achievements and aspirations while horrendous are far beyond what someone of Bush's intelligence level could ever reach. To suggest that Bush could ever reach the same level of political and military achievement as Hitler is absurd. Don't forget that Hitler was a self-made person while Bush had huge financial support not to mention a political and business network that would make it difficult for even the biggest idiot to fail toget to power.
    You make a good point. But I'm not drawing a direct comparison of Bush to Hitler, only tangential similarities. Maybe if Bush applied himself a bit more, he could come close. But he's always been an underachiever. Hitler was also a decorated combat veteran and spellbinding orator, quite unlike Bush.
    Last edited by dchristie; 10-08-2005 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    3,088

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by mroels
    Must you compare Bush to Hitler. First of all it is a low remark. Even as someone who despises Bush, he shouldn't be compared to someone who engaged in mass genocide! It is kinda rediculous to compare an idiot to the symbol of human evil!!

    Plus I think Hitler's achievements and aspirations while horrendous are far beyond what someone of Bush's intelligence level could ever reach. To suggest that Bush could ever reach the same level of political and military achievement as Hitler is absurd. Don't forget that Hitler was a self-made person while Bush had huge financial support not to mention a political and business network that would make it difficult for even the biggest idiot to fail toget to power.
    I'm IMPRESSED!!

    I have never heard anyone DEFEND Bush by showing how STUPID he is!! :D

    Well done mroels!! ;)

  5. #5
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    i'm amused*

    mroels wrote: 'Don't forget that Hitler was a self-made person...' indicates opinion formed without deep knowledge of what was happening in the financial world between about 1910 and September 1, 1939 or an uncorrupted perspective on current affairs de-snake (ASP NET scams PHPbb vBulletin o b s o l e t e s All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.)()(.)(.)()<-- MAD TV --?> panasonictold.net MSN TV too --?>


    I believe JOHN JUDGE at one time put forth evidence that asserted Adolf Hitler, as a Corporal in WWI was hospitalized because of mustard gas and that he was chemically conditioned to do the things he did for the benefit of the Industrialist gangster banksters, like Krupp, Farben, Rothschild, Theissen who funnelled 'huge financial support not to mention a political and business network, etc., blah, blah, power.PERIOD

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    89

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    SEE TOMMY THAT WAS A NORMAL POST!!!

    Anyway...from my previous research on Hitler I remember reading (i think in TIME) that Hitler was in fact blinded by a grenade that exploded close to him. After the docs checked him out they found that his blindness was purely psychological, there was no physical damage to his eyes. No matter how hard the docs tried they couldn't convince Hitler that there wasn't anything wrong with his eyesight. Do note that he really could see but just because his mind refused to process the images!!

    Anyway the docs sent him to a psychiatrist who convinced Hitler that he(Hitler) was God's messenger and destined to be God's ruler on earth. This type of treatment continued for a while at which time the psychiatrist told Hitler that he could never lead this world as a blind man and ordered him to see again!! and it worked. I just wonder what continued effect this had on Hitler.

    here's a free downloadable book on the subject written by who i think was the doctor

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Morell/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    89

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho70x
    i'm amused*

    mroels wrote: 'Don't forget that Hitler was a self-made person...' indicates opinion formed without deep knowledge of what was happening in the financial world between about 1910 and September 1, 1939 or an uncorrupted perspective on current affairs
    Not too sure what you meant by this but i for one have never heard of Hitler coming from a wealthy and powerful family...but if you clarify your point i'll respond better...or just admit im an idiot

  8. #8
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    i tried to phrase my question is a way that was not suggestive of a personal insult.
    many people have been duped about the WhoWhatWhereWhenWhyAndHowZ of historic events and person.s01 and if i was insulting any idiots, it is the dupers and not the dupees.

    oh, and i don't always post cyber-chaff. It's mostly a flame retardant for text-messaging dip-switches to get confused over .

    This is a 'MMXtmcx1100EMHz1 Micro-Mainframe Main Console' "HardWierdToTheMSN" CYA PROTOCOL.INI(T1/LAN)ding!/?;).
    It can dock&serve (host) hundreds of desktops, laptops and cell phones.
    300W generic ATX Mini-Tower Chassis on VIA Motherboard 1100EMHz CELERON CPU
    "DSLAM CO In-A-Box"#www-big-mama-one.tommywho70x.netzero.net8.0G3

    Some of the cyber-babble is 'distress messages', some is greetings, some is hints for other scammers to 'search word string' to discover some hidden treasure on "The Web".

    i was referring to investments being made in the financial world to support or defeat the rise of all sorts of alpha males. The Rockefellers bought Trotsky his ticket home to Moscow and the Rothschilds brought Lenin back from Zurich. Many American
    industrialists were investing heavily in Europe and provided Hitler with his logistical banking and numerous key players in his inner circle.

    World leaders, especially those from the 'Age of Discovery' on down, are puppets whose strings are pulled by the ultra-wealthy old money families and their mercenary pirates like Prescott Bush and Sons, Inc. (Carlyle Group NSA KEY ECHELON)[TEMPEST]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    89

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by tommywho70x

    i was referring to investments being made in the financial world to support or defeat the rise of all sorts of alpha males. The Rockefellers bought Trotsky his ticket home to Moscow and the Rothschilds brought Lenin back from Zurich. Many American
    industrialists were investing heavily in Europe and provided Hitler with his logistical banking and numerous key players in his inner circle.

    World leaders, especially those from the 'Age of Discovery' on down, are puppets whose strings are pulled by the ultra-wealthy old money families and their mercenary pirates like Prescott Bush and Sons, Inc. (Carlyle Group NSA KEY ECHELON)[TEMPEST]

    Interesting stuff...you got any more info on this...or sites i can look at..i'm pretty familiar with the Carlyle Group/Bush link but as far as Trotsky, Lenin or even Hitler I have no idea about!! Please elaborate or provide some places for me to look or suggested reading

  10. #10
    tommywho70x Guest

    Re: Bush & Hitler: Torture Is Official State Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by mroels
    Interesting stuff...you got any more info on this...or sites i can look at..i'm pretty familiar with the Carlyle Group/Bush link but as far as Trotsky, Lenin or even Hitler I have no idea about!! Please elaborate or provide some places for me to look or suggested reading
    Oh gosh! I feel a brain dump coming on! I've got nothing better to do right besides clean out almost 1500 messages in Yahoo! MAIL Welcome, tommywho70x Type 'Search Here'hit 'Go Search!' button Inbox 6% of 1.0GB
    I'm afraid to even look at the COOKIES & TIF Web Folders index.dat(mine.ddd)

    I'll puke out some book titles && goodguy/badguy names that you might not be familiar with.

    None Dare Call It Conspiracy, None Dare Call It Treason, Trading With The Enemy 1933-1945, Vampire Killer 2000, Blacklisted News, Cryptonomicon,
    The Emperor Wears No Clothes, Covert Action Information Bulletin

    Wm. & Ellen Thomas DBA Prop1.org/nucnews.net
    KEWL CrossedPalmOne+m105x5*TJW NUNYA belong to GROUND ZERO SOCIETY ENTERTAINTMENT INTELLICLUSTER driver_guide.com+Plus!


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