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  1. #1
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    India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    The Amway India CEO has been in jail over a month. Are some of the Amway India Diamonds heading to jail also?

    http://corporatefraudswatch.blogspot...-of-amway.html

    According to informed sources, the police of both the states are even sharing information regarding the list of upline members in the hierarchy of Amway India Enterprises, who share commissions on purchase of products by the downline members. The sources said that in the business model of Amway, the upline members who enroll new members into the scheme of purchasing products received sizable income which was nothing but easy and quick money. “Once the list of the ‘Diamonds’ is prepared and their income on commissions is confirmed, we go ahead with arresting them also,” the source said.

    Meanwhile, the police on Monday arrested the MD and CEO of Amway, William S Pinckney, who is presently in Charlapalli Jail and presented him in the judicial court which sent him to remand for 14 days. The MD was sent back to Charlapalli Jail. It is learnt that the police would file a petition in the court seeking custody of Pinckney for interrogation to take the criminal case against him to a logical conclusion.

    A police official said that the law would take its own course and charge sheets would be filed soon in the criminal cases against Amway India. In another twist to the criminal case against the MD of Amway, the High Court did not issue any orders on the petition filed by Amway India to exempt its managing director Pinckney from surrendering the passport to the police department. However, the passport surrender order issue has become an impediment for the release of Pinckney on bail.
    http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/in...f-Amway-100323
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  2. #2
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    The Amway India CEO has been in jail over a month. Are some of the Amway India Diamonds heading to jail also?

    http://corporatefraudswatch.blogspot...-of-amway.html
    I can't believe I'm saying this but I feel bad for that guy. Amway should do something other than send a letter.

  3. #3
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    I can't believe I'm saying this but I feel bad for that guy. Amway should do something other than send a letter.
    They have a hearty discussion going in India. One of the anti-MLMers said this:

    Amway India has not changed a bit of its old illegal business model. It is collecting entry fee in the name of purchasing products within 60 days of joining as IBO. In effect, if you do not purchase products worth Rs. 5000 in 60 days you will lose your membership. The renewal fee is also not waived. It is still collecting annual renewal fee of Rs. 499.
    That is why its chief is arrested and put behind bars.

    Scary. IBOs (if they made any money) should get out of the country, fast.

  4. #4
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    They have a hearty discussion going in India. One of the anti-MLMers said this:
    Amway India has not changed a bit of its old illegal business model. It is collecting entry fee in the name of purchasing products within 60 days of joining as IBO. In effect, if you do not purchase products worth Rs. 5000 in 60 days you will lose your membership. The renewal fee is also not waived. It is still collecting annual renewal fee of Rs. 499.
    That is why its chief is arrested and put behind bars.
    Scary. IBOs (if they made any money) should get out of the country, fast.
    Another comment from that link reads like this:

    Pasha said...
    Mr. Shyam Sundar
    But lately from last week the purchase of products worth Rs.5000 within 60 days required for activation have been waived off,but other requirements have not been announced as yet. Renewal charges have also been waived off.which are due to be paid from the month of Sept this year. please check their web site.
    But the commission structure is very bad.up line diamonds, platinum's etc are getting major portion of it i.e. 21-25 % of product, in addition to other travel etc benefits and that is actually the idea behind the scheme, To magnify/display one hero and attract thousands to buy the product at 3-4 times higher price.
    Mr. Sunder you are doing a nice job. please look into the irreverent demos shown by their up lines(also available on the you tube) especially for health supplements,thus luring the innocents to purchase their products.
    In addition some non professionals are prescribing these supplements to innocent public in multiples, at their pickup centers on some specific days, after conducting of so called bone density checkup.
    In case you missed it, I'll repeat an important part of that comment:


    "that is actually the idea behind the scheme, To magnify/display one hero and attract thousands to buy the product at 3-4 times higher price."


    That is MLM in a nutshell. No matter where you go, what country you're in, the victims consistently come to that conclusion.


    This scenario with Amway India is not much different from Amway's past business practices over the years - collect as much fees as possible, pressure IBO's with quotas to retain their status and be eligible for commissions, turn a blind eye away from unscrupulous IBO's and when they're taken to court, they try to settle, and only then will they change their rules, with as few changes as absolutely necessary to keep doing business as usual.


    Amway proponents try to say that Amway is reputable, etc. etc. but consider this: Every change in Amway's rules and regs. were the result of legal battles, and consistently reationary in nature. Also consider that in all these years, after all of this reform, the Amway IDS hasn't shown much of an improvement in IBO income. Just sayin'
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

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  5. #5
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Another comment from that link reads like this:

    Pasha said...
    Mr. Shyam Sundar
    But lately from last week the purchase of products worth Rs.5000 within 60 days required for activation have been waived off,but other requirements have not been announced as yet. Renewal charges have also been waived off.which are due to be paid from the month of Sept this year. please check their web site.
    But the commission structure is very bad.up line diamonds, platinum's etc are getting major portion of it i.e. 21-25 % of product, in addition to other travel etc benefits and that is actually the idea behind the scheme, To magnify/display one hero and attract thousands to buy the product at 3-4 times higher price.
    Mr. Sunder you are doing a nice job. please look into the irreverent demos shown by their up lines(also available on the you tube) especially for health supplements,thus luring the innocents to purchase their products.
    In addition some non professionals are prescribing these supplements to innocent public in multiples, at their pickup centers on some specific days, after conducting of so called bone density checkup.
    In case you missed it, I'll repeat an important part of that comment:


    "that is actually the idea behind the scheme, To magnify/display one hero and attract thousands to buy the product at 3-4 times higher price."


    That is MLM in a nutshell. No matter where you go, what country you're in, the victims consistently come to that conclusion.


    This scenario with Amway India is not much different from Amway's past business practices over the years - collect as much fees as possible, pressure IBO's with quotas to retain their status and be eligible for commissions, turn a blind eye away from unscrupulous IBO's and when they're taken to court, they try to settle, and only then will they change their rules, with as few changes as absolutely necessary to keep doing business as usual.


    Amway proponents try to say that Amway is reputable, etc. etc. but consider this: Every change in Amway's rules and regs. were the result of legal battles, and consistently reationary in nature. Also consider that in all these years, after all of this reform, the Amway IDS hasn't shown much of an improvement in IBO income. Just sayin'
    You do realise (or maybe not) that all those upline Diamonds were at one time on the bottom level of their upline Diamonds? What they did different to the people who stay ''bottom level'' is that they learn't the skills, applied them consistently and worked their way up to Diamond.

    As for people buying products 3 or 4 times the price (which isn't true, btw). Nobody will buy products unless they're getting value for them, especially if those products have got a very long refund policy on them as Amway products do.
    Last edited by ChrisDoyle; 07-04-2014 at 09:51 AM.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  6. #6
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    But the commission structure is very bad.up line diamonds, platinum's etc are getting major portion of it i.e. 21-25 % of product, in addition to other travel etc benefits and that is actually the idea behind the scheme, To magnify/display one hero and attract thousands to buy the product at 3-4 times higher price.
    And it's not even remotely true.

    The IBO who sells the product shares gets up to 25% of the wholesale price plus an additional up to 30% of the retail prices

    The Upline Platinum gets between 0% and 25% of the wholesale price

    Upline Diamonds and above share approximately 6% of the wholesales price.

    These people are either (a) clueless or (b) outright lying.

    Bizarrely, they also consider working essentially unpaid many years to develop an asset that then pays you on that work "quick and easy money"

    Simply clueless.

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  7. #7
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    The Amway India CEO has been in jail over a month. Are some of the Amway India Diamonds heading to jail also?
    I believe some have been arrested as part of Shyam's scam before, so nothing new here.

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


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  8. #8
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    You do realise (or maybe not) that all those upline Diamonds were at one time on the bottom level of their upline Diamonds? What they did different to the people who stay ''bottom level'' is that they learn't the skills, applied them consistently and worked their way up to Diamond.

    As for people buying products 3 or 4 times the price (which isn't true, btw). Nobody will buy products unless they're getting value for them, especially if those products have got a very long refund policy on them as Amway products do.
    I hope when they go after the Diamonds, the "Diamond" won't be current anymore and those people will be able to claim that they are only Emeralds and thus avoid imprisonment.

    It looks like the courts are criminalizing those that made money and calling the remaining IBOs "victims."

    I'm glad that Indian citizens are having this scourge lifted from them but concerned that an American is doing time and his corporate lords aren't doing everything they can to secure his release. What if they use the old MLM excuse of "it was a rogue IBO, not the company," and let this poor scapegoat go to prison? Or say that Amway India is a separate corporate entity and Amway USA is not responsible for the actions of a CEO in India who sullied the name of the company by his use of illegal tactics? William Pinkney must be terrified.

    I must send a letter humbly asking for leniency, citing that Pinkney is merely a pawn in an American company's global strategy for the expansion of their product-based pyramid scheme. Suggest that as a settlement, Amway India be moved to government control and the CEO kicked out of the country.

    The Amway India factory could continue making usable products that would be marketed business-to-business by a professional sales force.

    I wish Amway would hire me to go over and straighten things out....
    Last edited by Richard 3; 07-04-2014 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Just keep getting great ideas

  9. #9
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    I hope when they go after the Diamonds, the "Diamond" won't be current anymore and those people will be able to claim that they are only Emeralds and thus avoid imprisonment.

    It looks like the courts are criminalizing those that made money and calling the remaining IBOs "victims."

    I'm glad that Indian citizens are having this scourge lifted from them but concerned that an American is doing time and his corporate lords aren't doing everything they can to secure his release. What if they use the old MLM excuse of "it was a rogue IBO, not the company," and let this poor scapegoat go to prison? Or say that Amway India is a separate corporate entity and Amway USA is not responsible for the actions of a CEO in India who sullied the name of the company by his use of illegal tactics? William Pinkney must be terrified.

    I must send a letter asking for leniency, citing that Pinkney is merely a pawn in an American company's global strategy for the expansion of their product-based pyramid scheme. Ask that as a settlement, Amway be moved to government control and the CEO kicked out of the country.
    Do you believe that if you say, started a company up and worked hard for years that you should be able to retire and live off dividends?

    Shyam Sundar and his supporters consider that "quick and easy money". If it was a gym you started up, where people paid money as members, then according to these idiots that would make you guilty of violating the Indian law on Prize Chits and Money Circulation and thus a criminal.

    That's the kind of thinking you're supporting.

    I suspect it's no surprise that every time I ask Shyam Sundar if he supports the Indian Communist Party he wouldn't answer the question.
    Last edited by IBOFightBack; 07-04-2014 at 02:23 PM.

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  10. #10
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    Do you believe that if you say, started a company up and worked hard for years that you should be able to retire and live off dividends?

    Shyam Sundar and his supporters consider that "quick and easy money". If it was a gym you started up, where people paid money as members, then according to these idiots that would make you guilty of violating the Indian law on Prize Chits and Money Circulation and thus a criminal.

    That's the kind of thinking your supporting.

    I suspect it's no surprise that every time I ask Shyam Sundar if he supports the Indian Communist Party he wouldn't answer the question.
    Thanks for checking in on this. I think that Amway India has violated Indian law (maybe those laws are Draconian, as you claim). What matters is, this guy (and now maybe some of the more successful distributors) are taking a bullet for Amway. Are the US Amway people viewing this as an emergency? They should get that guy out!
    Last edited by Richard 3; 07-04-2014 at 02:06 PM. Reason: clarity, precision

  11. #11
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    Thanks for checking in on this. I think that they violated Indian law (whether those laws are fair or not). Are the US Amway people viewing this as an emergency? They should get that guy out!
    There's an old law that is, well, ridiculously unclear. Sundar and a Police accomplice are taking advantage of that, and then outright lying about how Amway operates to get local Police to harass Amway.

    They compounding this by outright lying about how Amway operates, and lying about what an earlier court said. 7 years ago they did the same thing, Amway petitioned to get the case thrown out. The court said "well, if what the Police allege is true, then it would fall under this law and thus we can't just throw it out". Amway appealed and the High Court agreed they couldn't just throw the case out, and ordered the Police to complete their investigation within 6 months so it can go to trial and see if the allegations are true.

    7 years later that still hasn't happened, and instead Sundar and his lackies like VC Sajjanar lie and state that the High Court found Amway to be an illegal business.

    Utterly false.

    For an example of the BS Sundar spreads, here is some actual text from one of his (many) submitted complaints to Indian police -

    The first person has to sponsor 6 persons and these 6 persons have to sponsor 4 persons each totaling 24 persons and in turn these 24 persons have to sponsor/enroll 3 persons each totaling 72 persons.

    Utterly false.

    Amway induces that it will give Rs.50,925/- per month if any person sponsor or enroll 102 persons under his downline.

    Utterly false.

    The commissions are said to be distributed to all the members in the chain/network from last person to Amway in U.S.A. as commissions on group turnover.

    Utterly false.

    Amway company further has been awarding titles to its members based on their enrollment of new members into its scheme. There are 22 levels in the scheme of Amway namely 1) Silver, 2) Gold, 3) Platinum, 4) Ruby, 5) Founders Platinum, 6) Founders Ruby, 7) Sapphire, 8) Founders Sapphire, 9) Emerald, 10) Founder Emerald, 11) Diamond, 12) Founders Diamond, 13) Executive Diamond, 14) Founders Executive Diamond, 15) Double Diamond, 16) Founder’s Double diamond, 17) Triple Diamond, 18) Founder’s Triple Diamond, 19) Crown Diamond, 20) Founder’s Crown, 21) Crown Ambassador and 22) Founder’s Crown Ambassador. The title holders will get huge and fabulous easy money in the form of group income which purely depend on the enrollment of new members into the scheme but not depend on the sale of products.

    Utterly false.

    The Hon’ble High Court of A.P. also held vide WP 20470/2006 that the scheme of Amway is nothing but illegal Money Circulation Scheme and the Hon’ble Supreme Court of India also upheld the same vide SLP No.13414/2007.

    Utterly false.

    and on and on.

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


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  12. #12
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    Do you believe that if you say, started a company up and worked hard for years that you should be able to retire and live off dividends?

    Shyam Sundar and his supporters consider that "quick and easy money". If it was a gym you started up, where people paid money as members, then according to these idiots that would make you guilty of violating the Indian law on Prize Chits and Money Circulation and thus a criminal.

    That's the kind of thinking you're supporting.

    I suspect it's no surprise that every time I ask Shyam Sundar if he supports the Indian Communist Party he wouldn't answer the question.
    "Quick and easy money" does sound weak, like sour grapes. Quick and easy doesn't mean illegal - but maybe in India it does. It's hard for a Westerner to wade through their written word; they use English differently.

    So, you feel it's Communists against Capitalists? Where can I view the debate? I'm sure you are battling nobly for the home team.
    Last edited by Richard 3; 07-04-2014 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Trying to make a point

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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    There's an old law that is, well, ridiculously unclear. Sundar and a Police accomplice are taking advantage of that, and then outright lying about how Amway operates to get local Police to harass Amway.

    and on and on.
    Why is Sundar attacking Amway? Is he a disgruntled IBO? An anti-MLMer like Joe or me?

  14. #14
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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Maybe the Indian government isn't interested in the "gray" areas of the debate such as whether "end users" can be IBOs and other issues where Amway is "barely" legal in the US and other countries. It's pretty clear when eve after Amway was cleared, they got fined and later had to make changes when other countries threatened to upset their apple cart.

    The Herbalife investigation, if the FTC has the fortitude to do what's right, can pave the way to make strict rules for MLMs so there aren't so many gray areas such as retail sales and end users. I doubt they will but I'm hoping.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    Maybe the Indian government isn't interested in the "gray" areas of the debate such as whether "end users" can be IBOs and other issues where Amway is "barely" legal in the US and other countries. It's pretty clear when eve after Amway was cleared, they got fined and later had to make changes when other countries threatened to upset their apple cart.

    The Herbalife investigation, if the FTC has the fortitude to do what's right, can pave the way to make strict rules for MLMs so there aren't so many gray areas such as retail sales and end users. I doubt they will but I'm hoping.
    There are too many end users in Herbalife, as there are in Amway, for it to be found to be a pyramid.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

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    Re: India's Police Going After Amway Diamonds Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    "Quick and easy money" does sound weak, like sour grapes. Quick and easy doesn't mean illegal - but maybe in India it does. It's hard for a Westerner to wade through their written word; they use English differently.
    "quick and easy money" is actually the wording of the law.

    So, you feel it's Communists against Capitalists? Where can I view the debate? I'm sure you are battling nobly for the home team.
    No, Shyam Sundar bans anyone from his website who disagrees with him

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