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  1. #1
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    Obedience to God or death!

    Is this the way it is? If we fail to obey God's commandments what happens? Some call the Old Testament too legalistic, God demanded that his chosen people obey his commandments, including how to worship the Him, how to pray, how to eat, how to perform sacrifices, and how to treat enemies. It seems there are a lot of rules to please God. Many in our modern world would say, "it's too demanding for any human being." However, what if it's true? What if God really demands that we obey his commandments? What are the consequences if we don't?

    In today's world, few would accept such rigid rules, even if it comes from the thrown of
    God. Humans are an independent species. Look at all that humans have accomplished while being free of God's rule. Civilizations have sprung up, flourished, dominated earth, and allowed humans to reap rewards from hard work, innovation, and success. What marvelous accomplishments, humans have succeeded over all other species. What heavenly awards await them? ::rasta:: Probably none! Life is fleeting, a temporary abode where humans reap the consequences of their actions.

    What if, however, God really meant what he said? What if God really demands obedience. Oh, that's silly, God must be a dictator, or at best, a narrow minded bigot. Those are human judgments about God. What if God doesn't care about human opinions? What if God demands obedience? The direct consequences are that humans will not go to heaven. I imagine heaven to be a place where God is the supreme commander, God has no challengers or opposition. The last challenger was Satan, who subsequently was banned from heaven. Why would God allow his creation to challenge Him? It would be very comical. Here we have Holy God, with eternal power and glory, being challenged by beings that can't even create a spark of holiness, not one single spark! One spark being a infinitesimally small part of heaven. Only God can create something from nothing. That is, of course, the big dilemma for science. If science could explain how matter and energy came from nothing without God, God would be a myth.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-12-2014 at 11:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    God is love. It is very simple. : The bible is a human interpretation that's skewed / slanted in an agenda for that particular time period. They used/use it to keep the masses in line, in control.

    God gave us a blank slate (earth). Cancer is man made, disease is man made, violence in man made, jealousy/anger/. If people treated their bodies with respect the world would be much more evolved.

    Respect God, never fear him.

    If you make EVERY decision in your life....no matter how small that decision is, based on 100% love, not 99%, not 50%......100% your life will be pure and closest to God.

    Everyone's mad at God all the time like he's a lame scapegoat......imagine Him and the sadness he must feel looking down on our nonsense and evilness. That's the true Devil.....it's making the wrong decisions and indulging into yourself instead of others.

  3. #3
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    God is love. It is very simple. : The bible is a human interpretation that's skewed / slanted in an agenda for that particular time period. They used/use it to keep the masses in line, in control.

    God gave us a blank slate (earth). Cancer is man made, disease is man made, violence in man made, jealousy/anger/. If people treated their bodies with respect the world would be much more evolved.

    Respect God, never fear him.

    If you make EVERY decision in your life....no matter how small that decision is, based on 100% love, not 99%, not 50%......100% your life will be pure and closest to God.

    Everyone's mad at God all the time like he's a lame scapegoat......imagine Him and the sadness he must feel looking down on our nonsense and evilness. That's the true Devil.....it's making the wrong decisions and indulging into yourself instead of others.
    I didn't mean to suggest that God is not love, just that God requires obedience. I don't think love and obedience are exclusive. If you love God you should also be obedient, otherwise you're opposing or challenging God. So, if God gives you a commandment and you refuse to obey, do you really love God?

    I don't believe the theme of obedience in the Old Testament is skewed. God cannot allow heavenly beings to be independent, it would be as if there were many different gods in heaven. I don't believe in the Christian idea that God forgives, and forgives, because God loves you. Why would God love creatures that disobey His commandments? It is for this reason that salvation is difficult, if not impossible for humans. Throughout the OT prophets continually admonish God's chosen people for being unfaithful or disobeying the Lord God. It would be no different today, God has not changed.

    As for love and respect, if you know you've been disobedient to God, wouldn't you also fear Him (it)? Wouldn't that result in fear of death or life without God?

    I agree, loving one another makes life better here on earth. However, the primary issue is love of God. If you love your fellow man, but not God, what are the consequences? What if, as an example, you're a totally loving person, everyone loves you for loving them, but you don't respect God or you have issues with God? God did this or that wrong, God didn't help me when I was in need, God didn't save a good friend from harm. Indeed, the grievance list can be very long. If you love God, you'll obey his commandments. I think it's that simple. All of God's angels obey God's will or commandments. Therefore, there is no dissension in heaven.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-13-2014 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    it's really as simple as you cant OBEY what you DONT KNOW!? you DO/can obey what you DO KNOW!? and there is a DIFF between know ABOUT something and KNOWING something!? MORAL laws are THINGS like a roadmap for MIND but only in times of TROUBLE when things are going FINE who needs/wants a map!? and which map is right!? there are different maps for different levels of understanding!? prolly why the bible gets slammed since it is a constructed book from fragments of knowledge from different perspectives/sources!? and as far as death goes according to religion there are 2 deaths!? call them the visible and invisible!? tangible and intangible!? posing the scenarios of being alive while dead and being dead while alive and dead while dead and alive while alive!? !? :freak3: :spin2: :chicken: :elvis:
    Last edited by lexx; 06-14-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    it's really as simple as you cant OBEY what you DONT KNOW!? you DO/can obey what you DO KNOW!? and there is a DIFF between know ABOUT something and KNOWING something!? MORAL laws are THINGS like a roadmap for MIND but only in times of TROUBLE when things are going FINE who needs/wants a map!? and which map is right!? there are different maps for different levels of understanding!? prolly why the bible gets slammed since it is a constructed book from fragments of knowledge from different perspectives/sources!? and as far as death goes according to religion there are 2 deaths!? call them the visible and invisible!? tangible and intangible!? posing the scenarios of being alive while dead and being dead while alive and dead while dead and alive while alive!? !? :freak3: :spin2: :chicken: :elvis:
    Very good points. I admit to having a bias based on a dream. I think I've posted it before. The dream was about Old Testament times. A voice said, "they didn't obey my commandments, not one single commandment!" That says volumes. Anyway, it doesn't really apply to us, except in a general way. If we're like God's chosen people, then chances are we also won't obey God's commandments.

  6. #6
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Here are the FACTS.

    Eternal Life in God's Kingdom is a GIFT -- meaning God will GIVE Eternal Life to those who HE chooses. It is NOT your right. You have this physical existence to make a choice. Do you accept HIS FREE GIFT -- ON HIS TERMS, or do you choose your own way during your 70 years on this earth? The CHOICE is yours.

    What does God require of you before He will offer this gift?

    Jesus said, "IF you would enter into Eternal Life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." He was asked, "WHICH?"

    Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    These SUMMARIZE the Ten Commandments. Read and understand them all. It is what's expected of you if you want the GIFT of Eternal Life. Now, why do you act as though God (your Creator) is asking too much of you?

  7. #7
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    Here are the FACTS.

    Eternal Life in God's Kingdom is a GIFT -- meaning God will GIVE Eternal Life to those who HE chooses. It is NOT your right. You have this physical existence to make a choice. Do you accept HIS FREE GIFT -- ON HIS TERMS, or do you choose your own way during your 70 years on this earth? The CHOICE is yours.

    What does God require of you before He will offer this gift?

    Jesus said, "IF you would enter into Eternal Life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." He was asked, "WHICH?"

    Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    These SUMMARIZE the Ten Commandments. Read and understand them all. It is what's expected of you if you want the GIFT of Eternal Life. Now, why do you act as though God (your Creator) is asking too much of you?
    first question IS..................WHY is he AXXING!? and then it FOLLOWS.........why are you DEMANDING!? :bah: :errr: :yelcutelaughA:
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  8. #8
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    Here are the FACTS.

    Eternal Life in God's Kingdom is a GIFT -- meaning God will GIVE Eternal Life to those who HE chooses. It is NOT your right. You have this physical existence to make a choice. Do you accept HIS FREE GIFT -- ON HIS TERMS, or do you choose your own way during your 70 years on this earth? The CHOICE is yours.

    What does God require of you before He will offer this gift?

    Jesus said, "IF you would enter into Eternal Life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." He was asked, "WHICH?"

    Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    These SUMMARIZE the Ten Commandments. Read and understand them all. It is what's expected of you if you want the GIFT of Eternal Life. Now, why do you act as though God (your Creator) is asking too much of you?
    I really don't like arrogant preachers.

    You misquoted NT scripture. It does not say you're guaranteed to have eternal life if you obey the Ten Commandments. Jesus answered a man who said he had obeyed the commandments, "If you want to be perfect go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matthew 19:23). Similar versions of the same story are found in Mark 10:21 and Luke 19:22. Even so, it is futile to debate NT scripture inasmuch as it is inauthentic. See my thread, "Christianity is Based on Lies and Deception."

    In addition to the Ten Commandments, there're other commandments mentioned in the OT, many of them directed toward individuals or groups. There are also admonitions by the prophets about the consequences of not obeying God's commandments. It seems, according to many OT stories that God's chosen people had a bad habit of disobeying commandments, or altering their meaning to suite their own interests. The most often mentioned transgressions are about pagan gods.

    Oh, I see, salvation is a gift. What are the rules for gift giving? Based on logic, it would have to be God. If God is the gift giver, we are ignorant recipients. You may or may not be the recipient of God's gift. You would have to be God to know who is and who is not the recipient.

    Your argument is flawed. If salvation is a gift for the asking, then there should be no conditions, just faithful asking. You assume God will award humans the salvation gift. What if you amend or refuse to obey God's commandments, are you saved then? What if there is no son of God to save you? What then? You're praying to a pagan God.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-15-2014 at 08:28 PM.

  9. #9
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I really don't like arrogant preachers.

    Blah, blah, blah, word, words words
    Don't you know by now that I'm really not interested in what you like or don't like?

    My answer has its root in the Bible. If you don't accept the Scriptures, then don't use them when it's convenient and then disregard them when its words don't fit the creation of your mind.

    I gave you CHRIST'S answer (not mine). That should settle it to anyone who recognizes the Shepard. If you think that's "arrogance," take it up with Christ. You're not rejecting me, you're rejecting Him.

  10. #10
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Your argument is flawed. If salvation is a gift for the asking, then there should be no conditions, just faithful asking.
    Never said it was a "gift for the asking" YOUR spirit is being JUDGED. GOD will decide whether or not you're worthy to receive the GIFT that He doesn't need to give.

    Imagine you're a father in your last days on earth. You're a millionaire. You have several sons and daughters. Do all "deserve" your free gift, or will you be watching them and judging whether or not they are worthy recipients of your gift? Are you obligated to give them the money simply because they ask? If one will spend every last dime on drugs and hookers, have they earned the right to your "gift"? If you have no say in the matter and all they have to do is ask, then it isn't a GIFT anymore, now is it?!

    You assume God will award humans the salvation gift. What if you amend or refuse to obey God's commandments, are you saved then?
    No. Christ gave the conditions to receiving the Father's Gift of Eternal Life. He won't allow 10 billion new rebellious Satans. If you don't accept the conditions, then you won't be there.

    Another CONDITION is the recognition that Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. There is NO Salvation, NO Eternal Life without that understanding.

    THAT is why you struggle so much. You are LOST in Satan's world because you reject the only lifeline offered. There will be no other, and soon there will be no more time for you.

  11. #11
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    Don't you know by now that I'm really not interested in what you like or don't like?

    My answer has its root in the Bible. If you don't accept the Scriptures, then don't use them when it's convenient and then disregard them when its words don't fit the creation of your mind.

    I gave you CHRIST'S answer (not mine). That should settle it to anyone who recognizes the Shepard. If you think that's "arrogance," take it up with Christ. You're not rejecting me, you're rejecting Him.
    Don't you have any pride? How can you lie and expect intelligent people to believe you?

    You say you have given me scriptures. What world do you live in? You must think everyone here is stupid. I quoted from the NT, you made it up. It is easy to resolve, just read the scripture!

    If you can't read and understand scripture, but claim to have extraordinary knowledge, you must be a complete phony.

  12. #12
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    Don't you have any pride? How can you lie and expect intelligent people to believe you?

    You say you have given me scriptures. What world do you live in? You must think everyone here is stupid. I quoted from the NT, you made it up. It is easy to resolve, just read the scripture!

    If you can't read and understand scripture, but claim to have extraordinary knowledge, you must be a complete phony.
    Conserve has an odd limited view of religion. To him it is an exclusive club that takes great joy in the fact that everyone else will fry in hell if they do not agree with him. Add to that the scene he imagines where people he doesn't like are black balled. Like a cosmic frat house where he is one of the cool kids

    Here is conserve and gang meeting you in heaven.


  13. #13
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    Don't you know by now that I'm really not interested in what you like or don't like?

    My answer has its root in the Bible. If you don't accept the Scriptures, then don't use them when it's convenient and then disregard them when its words don't fit the creation of your mind.

    I gave you CHRIST'S answer (not mine). That should settle it to anyone who recognizes the Shepard. If you think that's "arrogance," take it up with Christ. You're not rejecting me, you're rejecting Him.
    What makes you think you know what Christ really said? If your only proof that can be found, is in the bible, it's not very good proof, just more theory and conjecture with LOTS of fantasy...

    Faith = pretending to know, what you don't know.
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    Don't you have any pride? How can you lie and expect intelligent people to believe you?

    You say you have given me scriptures. What world do you live in? You must think everyone here is stupid. I quoted from the NT, you made it up. It is easy to resolve, just read the scripture!

    If you can't read and understand scripture, but claim to have extraordinary knowledge, you must be a complete phony.
    Careful where you point!...You CAN read and understand scripture (BFD), and claim to have extraordinary knowledge (based on a dream u had...yeah right!), +...u can't prove one bit of your theory, so, IMO, you're a complete phony yourself! Typical for bible apologists...
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Careful where you point!...You CAN read and understand scripture (BFD), and claim to have extraordinary knowledge (based on a dream u had...yeah right!), +...u can't prove one bit of your theory, so, IMO, you're a complete phony yourself! Typical for bible apologists...
    Actually, I expected that reply, I put myself in the target zone by attempting to critique Concerv.
    Even though I have repudiated the NT in my thread about lies and deception of Christianity, I couldn't resist the temptation to critique him based on his misquoting of NT scripture, even though it's phony. Presently, I'm researching the Gospel of Thomas for Jesus sayings. It appears what ended up from that early gospel in the NT was distorted to conform to a son of God theme. If you read the Gospel of Thomas you find verses that conform to a duality of God. I'm going to do a study to find out how many verses of Thomas support my duality thesis. If I find significant results, I'll post it.
    Last edited by Cnance; 06-20-2014 at 12:33 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Obedience to God or death!

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    Here are the FACTS.

    Eternal Life in God's Kingdom is a GIFT -- meaning God will GIVE Eternal Life to those who HE chooses. It is NOT your right. You have this physical existence to make a choice. Do you accept HIS FREE GIFT -- ON HIS TERMS, or do you choose your own way during your 70 years on this earth? The CHOICE is yours.

    What does God require of you before He will offer this gift?

    Jesus said, "IF you would enter into Eternal Life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." He was asked, "WHICH?"

    Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    These SUMMARIZE the Ten Commandments. Read and understand them all. It is what's expected of you if you want the GIFT of Eternal Life. Now, why do you act as though God (your Creator) is asking too much of you?
    and YET it say NO MAN is justified by/thru LAW!? so tell us how we get to SIN and BREAK laws and STILL get to heaven and DONT forget that PAUL said ALL things are LAWFUL to believers but NOT expedient!? what do YOU think he MEANT by THAT remark!? you been here for quite a WHILE now and have LEARNED NOTHING!? i guess your SPECIAL amoung the PESTS you see as MANKIND!? mark twain said i DONT TRUST a man who CANT lie!? i trust the man who CAN LIE but chooses NOT to!? :errr: :bah: :freak3: :
    Last edited by lexx; 06-19-2014 at 11:43 PM.
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