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Thread: Same as always

  1. #1
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    Same as always

    Here are some great quotes from Thomas Jefferson on religion

    The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

    I am really mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, a fact like this can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too, as an offence against religion; that a question about the sale of a book can be carried before the civil magistrate. Is this then our freedom of religion? and are we to have a censor whose imprimatur shall say what books may be sold, and what we may buy? And who is thus to dogmatize religious opinions for our citizens? Whose foot is to be the measure to which ours are all to be cut or stretched? Is a priest to be our inquisitor, or shall a layman, simple as ourselves, set up his reason as the rule for what we are to read, and what we must believe? It is an insult to our citizens to question whether they are rational beings or not, and blasphemy against religion to suppose it cannot stand the test of truth and reason. If M de Becourt’s book be false in its facts, disprove them; if false in its reasoning, refute it. But, for God’s sake, let us freely hear both sides, if we choose….

    This last one, think about it, who would you wnat to be the inquisitor. Conserve? Chance? Very scary.

    Subject opinion to coercion: whom will you make your inquisitors? Fallible men; men governed by bad passions, by private as well as public reasons. And why subject it to coercion? To produce uniformity. But is uniformity of opinion desirable? No more than of face and stature.

  2. #2
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    Re: Same as always

    Tom, I've stated it before and I'll state it again....religion is a serious distraction from people finding their own way of living a self-reliant life and feeling as secure as is possible in an insecure world.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  3. #3
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    Re: Same as always

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Tom, I've stated it before and I'll state it again....religion is a serious distraction from people finding their own way of living a self-reliant life and feeling as secure as is possible in an insecure world.
    Oh hell yes. And on top of that you have the new brand of kooks trying to dumb down the kids by teaching creationism. There is one group that wants to teach the the sun revolves around the earth.

    And get this, there's a douche bag Teabagger named Frank Turek that claims Thomas Jefferson would start a second revolution over teaching creation. All this because the word creator appears in the declaration.


    If these bureaucrats are going to say that we can’t mention Creation anywhere in school, I ask them this question: Are you telling me that the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional? Because the Declaration of Independence talks about our Creator, it says we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, it says that we were created. Please don’t tell me the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional. I think I know what Thomas Jefferson would do, the man who said that taxation without representation is tyranny, if he were to come back to America today and find that his tax dollars were going to pay public school teachers to teach his school children that his Declaration of Independence was unconstitutional, I think he’d start the Second American Revolution.
    http://wpc.14cb.edgecastcdn.net/0014...rc/EF14C55.mp3

  4. #4
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    Re: Same as always

    And on top of that you have the new brand of kooks trying to dumb down the kids by teaching creationism.
    Mainly because these people, like us, are attached to their position. The difference is folks like you and I are willing to put these "creationist beliefs" up against an unbiased testing of their premise. The religionists will not do this, as this test might reveal the truth, or they may be fearful of a reprisal from this God.

    Being a Christian for more than 55 years, I know the fear and guilt that held me from this serious investigation.

    Thankfully, I came under the influence of a teacher back in 1992 who was Christian, but who challenged myself and the other people under his tutelage to challenge every one of our beliefs against that which is known.

    This is where I found out that most people today miss the greater opportunities in their lives by staying attached to old ways, staying uninterested in exploring bigger truths that ultimately are more factual than their lesser truth.

    Simply because they almost never leave their personal bias at home, testing their little truth against TRUTH.

    George had absolutely zero agenda for what we all personally believed in, Atheist or Christian, just as long as we challenged all of our beliefs and always acted in service to them.

    Thomas Jefferson would start a second revolution over teaching creation. All this because the word creator appears in the declaration.
    Thomas Jefferson: A True American Radical

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w..._b_526853.html


    What can I say? All movements will have their radicals. Luckily, America had people like Jefferson. What is important is that the beliefs are sacred to the believer, as yours are to you, as mine are to me, as Jefferson's were to him.

    The question is, how do these beliefs stand up to facts, proofs, and actualities under given all circumstances?

    If they can be struck down effectively by other, more in-tune truths, does the believer adjust his truths in response to new information? Or does he keep them untouched in himself, exercising them on the outside, following a path into disintegration? If he doesn't test proofs that go against his beliefs without bias, then hes allowing his agenda to get in his way.

    It all depends on the level of development of his personal consciousness. Thats the inner work of nurturing his own personal responsibility.

    Most of these folks do not want to talk about this:




    http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

    Radical Christians have their own rationalizations on this subject, too:

    http://toptenproofs.com/article_christianheritage.php
    Last edited by GHOST DOG; 04-15-2014 at 03:45 PM.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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