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  1. #76
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    It is clear in both sides what they want, so let the people do what they want, it's their choice. Hope they are ready enough what's the consequences on their doings. Of course, pro-life have their principles however, if those people want abortion then, pro-life community can't do stop them.
    "You know what makes my eyeballs roll? -best paid porn sites ".

  2. #77
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Both sites will never agree on this. I am pro-choice for a number of reasons, but I don't go around telling pregnant woman to abort. Pro-lifers seem to think that the choice mothers have is an easy one. In most cases I think it is very, very difficult and one that if the mother does not later regret - they never forget.

    So I just want to say to both sides that you are spending too much time and energy fighting about the WRONG THING. If you were to focus on something else and spend half as much energy and emotion on this thing then most of the problem (but not all) would go away.

    What I am talking about is education and birth control. If there are no unwanted/unplanned pregnancies, then abortion is much less of a consideration. Children need to get educated correctly as soon as it is appropriate. And birth control methods need to be cheap, available, effective,and most of all: SAFE for both partners.

    Please, take your passion and your conviction and apply it to the root of the abortion issue which is unwanted/unplanned pregnancies.

  3. #78
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is 'Abortion', because it is a war against the child... A direct killing of the innocent child, 'Murder' by the mother herself... And if we can accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion? As always, we must persuade her with love... And we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts...

  4. #79
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    In the end, it doesn't matter what any of us "feels". A person should have the right to choose what happens with their body and anything contained within that body, up to a point.

    But fighting abortion by passing a law against it or talking to people about how it's murder is NOT very effective.

    If you REALLY want to stop abortion, then work to stop unwanted pregnancies. Promote education and birth control. Getting an abortion is not a simple or easy thing. If we can stop unwanted pregnancies we can stop abortions.

    If you are not willing to promote birth control and safe sex, you are lazy and avoiding YOUR responsibility to see the change you say you want to see.

  5. #80
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by nielsencl View Post
    In the end, it doesn't matter what any of us "feels". A person should have the right to choose what happens with their body and anything contained within that body, up to a point.

    But fighting abortion by passing a law against it or talking to people about how it's murder is NOT very effective.

    If you REALLY want to stop abortion, then work to stop unwanted pregnancies. Promote education and birth control. Getting an abortion is not a simple or easy thing. If we can stop unwanted pregnancies we can stop abortions.

    If you are not willing to promote birth control and safe sex, you are lazy and avoiding YOUR responsibility to see the change you say you want to see.
    This issue is the subject of an upcoming constitutional referendum in Ireland on May 25th. We are voting to attempt to repeal a law preventing abortion. The whole "anti choice" campaign has been hijacked and funded by US evangelists. I agree with you that this should be a woman's choice so I will be voting to repeal this law and give the choice to women. It really angers me that these religious nutcases have attempted to interfere in a political issue in a country that's not theirs but that's a familiar scenario for the US.

  6. #81

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    This issue is the subject of an upcoming constitutional referendum in Ireland on May 25th. We are voting to attempt to repeal a law preventing abortion. The whole "anti choice" campaign has been hijacked and funded by US evangelists. I agree with you that this should be a woman's choice so I will be voting to repeal this law and give the choice to women. It really angers me that these religious nutcases have attempted to interfere in a political issue in a country that's not theirs but that's a familiar scenario for the US.
    How many Catholics are still practicing in Ireland? They're sure not in favor of abortion.
    It's alright to vote for it to be a woman's choice but with that you need limitations. I would imagine for those Catholic women who may have left the church there still will be a lot of guilt if they consider aborting. Sticks with ya.

  7. #82
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    How many Catholics are still practicing in Ireland? They're sure not in favor of abortion.
    It's alright to vote for it to be a woman's choice but with that you need limitations. I would imagine for those Catholic women who may have left the church there still will be a lot of guilt if they consider aborting. Sticks with ya.
    Only old men and women left now and even at that most dont bother. You have the wrong view of Ireland like most in the US. We are a very progressive country and religion is all but dead. However, the schools are still owned by the catholic church but even that is coming to an end and the subject of much heated debate. We overwhelmingly voted the marriage equality bill in at our last constitutional referendum. We were the only country ever to do that by popular vote of the people. Irish students from all over the world came back home to cast their vote. Great victory against that disgusting church ethos. Most of the "anti choice" voters are the brain dead welfare spongers with not 2 brain cells to rub together and living off my fcuking tax euros.

  8. #83
    Unregistered Guest

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    Only old men and women left now and even at that most dont bother. You have the wrong view of Ireland like most in the US. We are a very progressive country and religion is all but dead. However, the schools are still owned by the catholic church but even that is coming to an end and the subject of much heated debate. We overwhelmingly voted the marriage equality bill in at our last constitutional referendum. We were the only country ever to do that by popular vote of the people. Irish students from all over the world came back home to cast their vote. Great victory against that disgusting church ethos. Most of the "anti choice" voters are the brain dead welfare spongers with not 2 brain cells to rub together and living off my fcuking tax euros.
    Nice to hear you're coming out of the dark ages, wish the Catholic church and Muslim religion would do the same.

  9. #84
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Nice to hear you're coming out of the dark ages, wish the Catholic church and Muslim religion would do the same.
    Religion should have no say in decisions affecting people. Religions are given a respect they simply do not deserve. Religions (all of them) are based on an un-shown, un-difined Un-proven and un-provable assumption of the existence of some force that has been ascribed many human personalities by humans. Why the hell can't people wake up. The vote in Ireland is tomorrow May 25th 2018. We either step forward or stay in the primeval slime. We'll see.

  10. #85

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    Religion should have no say in decisions affecting people. Religions are given a respect they simply do not deserve. Religions (all of them) are based on an un-shown, un-difined Un-proven and un-provable assumption of the existence of some force that has been ascribed many human personalities by humans. Why the hell can't people wake up. The vote in Ireland is tomorrow May 25th 2018. We either step forward or stay in the primeval slime. We'll see.
    How long before you know the results?

  11. #86
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    How long before you know the results?
    Results are in PS. Biggest turnout in the history of the state. Ireland has voted to carry the motion by a 2 thirds majority. Another kick in the testicles for the church and its rule over the people of Ireland. Even had a 70 year old woman message me and tell me how good it was to be able to make that decision against the church. Also, one big middle finger to the US evangelists who spent a fortune trying to interfere but only succeeded in converting those who normally wouldn't vote into "yes" voters with their sickening campaign of lies. I can't wait for them to drag their ladders around to take all their posters back down and I will sit and gloat.

  12. #87

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    Results are in PS. Biggest turnout in the history of the state. Ireland has voted to carry the motion by a 2 thirds majority. Another kick in the testicles for the church and its rule over the people of Ireland. Even had a 70 year old woman message me and tell me how good it was to be able to make that decision against the church. Also, one big middle finger to the US evangelists who spent a fortune trying to interfere but only succeeded in converting those who normally wouldn't vote into "yes" voters with their sickening campaign of lies. I can't wait for them to drag their ladders around to take all their posters back down and I will sit and gloat.
    I heard this on the news and they also say Ireland is predominantly Catholic.

    As a woman I'm not a supporter of abortion unless it's to save a life, the baby has health issues or there are serious emotional issues for the Mother etc.

    I believe the fetus is a baby and when you abort you are taking the life of your child. Nothing to do with religion, it's the human thing to do for a woman, nurture the child living inside of you and not kill it. For me I can't understand how people can think the fetus is not a human being, the child of the mother and father. Not all women or men feel this way and not all mothers and fathers suffer when considering abortion or when having an abortion. A lot of bunk is delivered through propaganda about the issue of abortion. Now Ireland has a lot to figure out with this new ruling or law.

  13. #88
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    I heard this on the news and they also say Ireland is predominantly Catholic.

    As a woman I'm not a supporter of abortion unless it's to save a life, the baby has health issues or there are serious emotional issues for the Mother etc.

    I believe the fetus is a baby and when you abort you are taking the life of your child. Nothing to do with religion, it's the human thing to do for a woman, nurture the child living inside of you and not kill it. For me I can't understand how people can think the fetus is not a human being, the child of the mother and father. Not all women or men feel this way and not all mothers and fathers suffer when considering abortion or when having an abortion. A lot of bunk is delivered through propaganda about the issue of abortion. Now Ireland has a lot to figure out with this new ruling or law.
    Doesn't really matter what anybody but the Irish people think and this huge vote was a vote against the oppression of the catholic church and religion in general. This vote was not about abortion, this vote was about choice and freewill. Ireland may be a tradionally catholic country but ireland is really a secular country. It takes time to pull your boots out of the mud but we are getting there and I am proud to be Irish.

  14. #89

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    Doesn't really matter what anybody but the Irish people think and this huge vote was a vote against the oppression of the catholic church and religion in general. This vote was not about abortion, this vote was about choice and freewill. Ireland may be a tradionally catholic country but ireland is really a secular country. It takes time to pull your boots out of the mud but we are getting there and I am proud to be Irish.
    Sounds like you need to be discussing this with the Irish and not us from the US. lol

    Find yourself an Irish Scam.com.

  15. #90
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    Sounds like you need to be discussing this with the Irish and not us from the US. lol

    Find yourself an Irish Scam.com.
    Oh I do (and remember, I'm also a European) but I try to broaden others horizons. Why is the US so bloody insular? I know I'm not wanted over here but I'm gonna stay hanging around like an interested alien. Hey, we have another referendum coming up before the end of the year. We will be voting to get rid of the so called blasphemy law (incitement to religious hatred). The only religion that benefits from that law is Islam so that will definitely pass (we hope).

  16. #91

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    Oh I do (and remember, I'm also a European) but I try to broaden others horizons. Why is the US so bloody insular? I know I'm not wanted over here but I'm gonna stay hanging around like an interested alien. Hey, we have another referendum coming up before the end of the year. We will be voting to get rid of the so called blasphemy law (incitement to religious hatred). The only religion that benefits from that law is Islam so that will definitely pass (we hope).
    You think you're special but you're just like everyone else, you're human. Problems will arise because of the new abortion laws. The reason I'm trying to discuss this with you is because I'm interested. Get off of your high horse.

  17. #92
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    You think you're special but you're just like everyone else, you're human. Problems will arise because of the new abortion laws. The reason I'm trying to discuss this with you is because I'm interested. Get off of your high horse.
    Problems wont arise for me because I don't have a womb and I wont have to make the choice. We don't have an "abortion" law yet. That was a constitutional ammendment to clear the way for new legislation. To be honest, I really don't give a shit about it. Life will go on. And the US (you being an exception) is extremly insular. There are few parallels between the US and Europe apart from a similar language.

  18. #93
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    My apologies for the high horse attitude. Im arguing with an idiot supposed atheist on facebook. My attitude carried over.

  19. #94

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    Problems wont arise for me because I don't have a womb and I wont have to make the choice. We don't have an "abortion" law yet. That was a constitutional ammendment to clear the way for new legislation. To be honest, I really don't give a shit about it. Life will go on. And the US (you being an exception) is extremly insular. There are few parallels between the US and Europe apart from a similar language.
    You're making this very difficult, you don't want to discuss this.

    I was just taking a look at all of the differences between the Irish and Americans, lots of info about it. I have enjoyed all of Scams members that shared on this forum and found it interesting to learn about different cultures. Members from the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Russia etc.

    I just read how friendly the Irish are, so be friendly and quit being a dick. lol

    I was saying the Irish will have difficulties with the new abortion laws when they come about. Not all, most likely some and even those without a womb may have some issues. Takes a man and a woman to make a baby.

    I'm done with this for now, you're no fun this evening, just annoying.

  20. #95

    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chesty View Post
    My apologies for the high horse attitude. Im arguing with an idiot supposed atheist on facebook. My attitude carried over.
    Thank you, we'll talk later if you want to, I do enjoy learning.

  21. #96
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    Re: The Debate on the Abortion Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeggieSue View Post
    You're making this very difficult, you don't want to discuss this.

    I was just taking a look at all of the differences between the Irish and Americans, lots of info about it. I have enjoyed all of Scams members that shared on this forum and found it interesting to learn about different cultures. Members from the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Russia etc.

    I just read how friendly the Irish are, so be friendly and quit being a dick. lol

    I was saying the Irish will have difficulties with the new abortion laws when they come about. Not all, most likely some and even those without a womb may have some issues. Takes a man and a woman to make a baby.

    I'm done with this for now, you're no fun this evening, just annoying.
    There's always gonna be issues with every law but when the majority speaks in such numbers then that's the way it goes. I have to say, there is no great sense of celebration here but there have been so many sad cases of women loosing their lives due to doctors hands being tied up by the restriction, that this just had to happen. My neighbor, when she was younger, had to travel to the UK to have a dead baby removed and carried the child's body back in a box and then, weeks later, received the child's organs in the post. We made the correct decision.
    On another note, I have decided to remove myself from these A-theist debate groups as I feel that they claim a moral high ground just because they claim to be A-theists. They do not like it when I point out the dangers of claiming the moral high ground for a group. It only takes one of that group to topple that premise. Incidentally, these are ALL U.S. atheists???

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