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  1. #1
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    I posted this story before, but no one responded. The "story" was backed up by social workers and a nurse.

    Is EVERYBODY LYING? I've SEEN similar things so I KNOW it is possible. Is it POSSIBLE that there might be a world that you (God-Haters) know nothing about? I await your explanations.

    A woman and three children who claimed to be possessed by demons. A 9-year-old boy walking backward up a wall in the presence of a family case manager and hospital nurse.


    Gary police Capt. Charles Austin said it was the strangest story he had ever heard.


    Austin, a 36-year veteran of the Gary Police Department, said he initially thought Indianapolis resident Latoya Ammons and her family concocted an elaborate tale as a way to make money. But after several visits to their home and interviews with witnesses, Austin said simply, "I am a believer."
    MORE COVERAGE:How other outlets handled 'The exorcisms of Latoya Ammons'
    Not everyone involved with the family was inclined to believe its incredible story. And many readers will find Ammons' supernatural claims impossible to accept.


    But, whatever the cause of the creepy occurrences that befell the family — whether they were seized by a systematic delusion or demonic possession — it led to one of the most unusual cases ever handled by the Department of Child Services. Many of the events are detailed in nearly 800 pages of official records obtained by The Indianapolis Star and recounted in more than a dozen interviews with police, DCS personnel, psychologists, family members and a Catholic priest.


    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2...mmons/4892553/


    Last edited by Administrator; 03-16-2014 at 07:52 PM.

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    I posted this story before, but no one responded. The "story" was backed up by social workers and a nurse.

    Is EVERYBODY LYING? I've SEEN similar things so I KNOW it is possible. Is it POSSIBLE that there might be a world that you (God-Haters) know nothing about? I await your explanations.




    SO......what ya WAITIN fer............get OUT there like a JESuS man and say to the WORLD i have NO place to LAY my HEAD until ALL is under the AUSPICES of god the HOLY and ETERNAL HAPPINESS!? MEANtime as MEANTIMES go as ALWAYS..........just SET aback and DEMAND things CHANGE!? i mean SURELY there is a PRECEDENT if god RESTED after the creation!? and OOPS!? i guess i QUALIFY as a god HATER by just ANSWERING your CALL!? :errr: : :yelcutelaughA: :
    Last edited by lexx; 03-16-2014 at 08:50 PM.
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  3. #3
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    I posted this story before, but no one responded. The "story" was backed up by social workers and a nurse.

    Is EVERYBODY LYING? I've SEEN similar things so I KNOW it is possible. Is it POSSIBLE that there might be a world that you (God-Haters) know nothing about? I await your explanations.
    To be truthful, I've never seen this story posted by you or anyone else, con.

    I'd like to see you explain just how an "All-Powerful God," The Creator Of the Universe, as you call Him, would allow a supposed "Demon" to manipulate and harm his most beloved creations.....children even. Humanity was supposedly created in God's own image and likeness.

    If this is what you and these folks think that it is, "Demonic Possession," and not some unexplained hoax or natural phenomena, this "Demon" must be more powerful than the Christian God, if He can escape His wrath.

    You see, con, this is why it just doesn't pass the Logic and Reason test.

    However, this from Epicurus is very reasonable, and sums it up best:

    “Is God willing to prevent Evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh Evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

    Even your own bible stands against the possibility of this above scenario being reasonable:

    Isaiah 45:7- "I form the light and create the darkness: I make peace and create Evil: I, the Lord do all these things."


    By this line from Isaiah, the Christian God must think that we needed evil in the world, so He "created" it.....this very biblical line causes your Christian God to be an Evil Monster, if this Indiana "haunting" is in fact a real Demonic Possession.


    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  4. #4
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    So body can answer what took place in this house witnessed by so many professionals. This isn't abiut how powerful God is. In looking for an explanation from those who don't believe in a spirit world.

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    So body can answer what took place in this house witnessed by so many professionals. This isn't abiut (about?) how powerful God is. In looking for an explanation from those who don't believe in a spirit world.
    Its mostly about you proving that there is a God, more than about how powerful a "God" is. This is entirely about God's existence, or His non-existence.
    My point is extremely sustainable because of the absence of "Supernatural God" activity: God doesn't exist, or he wouldn't have let this Demon loose on the planet Earth.

    Or as in Epicurus' quote, " “Is God willing to prevent Evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh Evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

    If you can prove to me that God does exist, why then didn't He interfere with this Devil harming a child, not to mention the child's family?

    If you cannot bring substantial, objective evidence (ie. a piece of the Demon's loincloth) or something other than anecdotal human testimony to the table, and you state that God exists, logic posits that we look at the reasons why your Christian God wouldn't have long ago vanquished this supposed Demon.

    I don't know that this is a true story of Demonic possession, and neither do you, or do the police who saw what they saw. They might have witnessed a "dimension-travelling alien" attack this family. They also have nothing but their own perceptions to go on.

    So I ask the important questions which are the only ones relevant to the premise you've brought to this board, in light of absolutely zero "supernatural" evidence.

    Does an "Omnipotent God" exist?

    If a loving, caring Omnipotent Christian God does exist, why didn't He dispatch this Satanic Entity thousands of years ago, before it attacked this family?

    The third possibility is that God exists, and the attack on this family was either performed by God, or sanctioned by God. After all, Isaiah, 45:7 in your bible clearly states that God created Evil.

    The fourth possibility: Was this really a bonafide Demonic possession, or something else entirely?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  6. #6
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    You're not going to stay on topic are you? IF you want to know why God ALLOWS Satan to run wild on this earth, I'll answer that in another thread IF you ask.

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.

    If you cannot, don't keep trying to change the topic of this thread.

    I honestly thought you loud mouths would have SOMETHING.


    Last edited by conserv4ever; 03-18-2014 at 04:48 PM.

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Its mostly about you proving that there is a God, more than about how powerful a "God" is. This is entirely about God's existence, or His non-existence.
    I stopped posting here because I realized that nothing said here will convince you of God's existence.

    Nobody will be able to prove conclusively to a devout atheist that there is a God. Conversely, you have not demonstrated conclusively that there is no God.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  8. #8
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Your thread states "I want ANSWERS From the God Haters."

    I assumed that you were wanting answers for this purported "supernatural event" which I cannot give as I, nor anyone else was there with devices used for measuring possible "supernatural events." I can only state why I think that this entire story, as it relates to the existence of Demons is a falsehood. My premise is based on the lack of proof of the supernatural, and thus, a Christian God.

    Your initial statement included this line:

    Is it POSSIBLE that there might be a world that you (God-Haters) know nothing about? I await your explanations.
    Yes, there just might be a world that us "God Haters," or even the "God Lovers" don't know about. However, the entirety of evidence for this type of "world" is a negative, a non-existent...IOW, it does not exist! And this premise is fully supported by the lack of any supernatural evidence!

    If you plan on submitting this scenario of "Demonic Possession" as proof of this non-existent world, the Burden Of Proof is yours as you are the person making this extraordinary claim, con.

    IF you want to know why God ALLOWS Satan to run wild on this earth, I'll answer that in another thread IF you ask.
    The very next step is you MUST prove that this world exists, in order for me to strike down your proofs! In effect, your proof of the "positive" in this case, a supernatural world, would strike down my negative premise of an ONLY natural existence.....everywhere we look!

    Anecdotal evidence is all this story is. Anecdotal evidence, according to Merriam-Webster is "based on, or consisting of reports or observations of usually unscientific observers."

    Lets assume for the moment that there is an Omnipotent God, so tell me, why does an All-Powerful, All-Loving God allow his children to be attacked by ferocious "Demons?"

    Again, I contend that it is not logical for an all loving, all-powerful God to exist and allow a malevolent, violent "supernatural" Demon to harass, abuse, and harm this God's children.

    Furthermore, I firmly believe that I am quite "on-topic" with this defense of my premise of either no God, a weak God, or an evil God, since you haven't brought forward any type of tangible evidence for this "Demon World."

    With this in mind, I correctly state that your burden is to bring incontrovertible proof, first and foremost, as to this "Supernatural," or "Spirit" world, and leave the Anecdotal evidence for those who prefer to not test their beliefs.
    Last edited by GHOST DOG; 03-18-2014 at 05:43 PM.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    I stopped posting here because I realized that nothing said here will convince you of God's existence.
    UMMMM.......Why do you think that its your job to convert my thinking??? I was a true, blue Christian for many years, (55) and I've already been where you are now.

    And now at 66, with many hours of study, and contemplation of facts vs. superstition, I know exactly why you need to change my thinking over to that of a God-believer.

    The simplest of facts fully support the basis for a "no God" existence. Those being the empty hole where supernatural proof would stand.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  10. #10
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.
    \

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.
    .



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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    UMMMM.......Why do you think that its your job to convert my thinking??? I was a true, blue Christian for many years, (55) and I've already been where you are now.
    I don't think it's my "job".

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    The simplest of facts fully support the basis for a "no God" existence. Those being the empty hole where supernatural proof would stand.
    Yet you haven't offered a single specific example.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  12. #12
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    I don't think it's my "job".
    I stopped posting here because I realized that nothing said here will convince you of God's existence.
    Your statement to me clearly infers that you wish me to be convinced of God's existence. Doesn't it?

    Originally Posted by GHOST DOG
    The simplest of facts fully support the basis for a "no God" existence. Those being the empty hole where supernatural proof would stand.
    Yet you haven't offered a single specific example.

    My dear sir..I offer up an entire existence free of the "supernatural." It is nowhere to be found! This represents the "empty hole" where supernatural would stand, if it were viable.

    Please feel free to offer up any and all REAL supernatural, or "Spirit" evidence! ( Absolutely NO anecdotal evidence allowed!)
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.
    \

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.

    Please explain how these events happened in the presence of so many credible witnesses.
    .


    Please read this in regards to this story's proof of being a viable supernatural event:

    Burden of Proof
    Who has to prove what to whom? The person making the extraordinary claim (This is you, con!) has the burden of proving to the experts and to the community at large that his or her belief has more validity than the one almost everyone else accepts. You have to lobby for your opinion to be heard. Then you have to marshal experts on your side so you can convince the majority to support your claim over the one they have always supported. Finally, when you are in the majority, the burden of proof switches to the outsider who wants to challenge you with his or her unusual claim. Evolutionists had the burden of proof for half a century after Darwin, but now the burden of proof is on creationists. It is up to creationists to show why the theory of evolution is wrong and why creationism is right, and it is not up to the evolutionists to defend evolution. The burden of proof is on the Holocaust deniers to prove the Holocaust did not happen, not on Holocaust historians to prove that it did. The rationale for this is that mountains of evidence prove that both evolution and the Holocaust are facts. In other words, it is not enough to have the evidence. You must convince others of the validity of your evidence. And when you are an outsider this is the price you pay, regardless of whether you are right or wrong.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Your statement to me clearly infers that you wish me to be convinced of God's existence. Doesn't it?
    Sorry, on this point you are mistaken. I just don't see the point of debating with you endlessly when it's apparent that your mind cannot be changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    My dear sir..I offer up an entire existence free of the "supernatural." It is nowhere to be found! This represents the "empty hole" where supernatural would stand, if it were viable.
    Even if one example were posted, you would find some kind of fault with the evidence or explain it as some coincidence or accident of nature. Thus my statement above.

    Good luck to you.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    Quote Originally Posted by conserv4ever View Post
    I posted this story before, but no one responded. The "story" was backed up by social workers and a nurse.

    Is EVERYBODY LYING? I've SEEN similar things so I KNOW it is possible. Is it POSSIBLE that there might be a world that you (God-Haters) know nothing about? I await your explanations.




    Is this your only proof of a 'loving' god?

    If it is, it sounds like just another movie of the week, & that's about it IMO.

    Is that really all you've got to base your biblical beliefs on? Really?!

    Also, just an observation...why is it that you always seem to use the word "hate" first?

    When you squeeze an orange, orange juice comes out — because that's what's inside. When you are squeezed, what comes out is what is inside.

    — Dr. Wayne Dyer
    Is that what Jesus would do/say?

    I'll bet not.
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  16. #16
    conserv4ever is offline You Can't Handle the Truth! User Rank
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    Re: I Want ANSWERS From the God Haters

    So they made my point. They can't give an answer. Good Allah, I would have at least said ...

    1) They were all paid off
    2) Mass hallucination
    3) All members of the same church trying to pull a fast one
    4)....

    But you can't produce one credible response ON TOPIC.

    Don't think your DIVERSIONS weren't noticed by the average reader. You've exposed your closed minded BELIEFS.

    It would have been better if you guys never responded. Now you've been exposed for the FOOLS you are

    For the director of music. Of David. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.



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