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  1. #33
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    I quote what I quote to prove my point(s). If you were arguing facets of The Lord of The Rings books vs the movies, would you rely on dream revelations or what was actually on screen and in print?

    I'd personally argue from the text or the TV, not my dreams...
    Also I don't think you were critical of the bible. You were critical of christians who haven't bothered to read the bible that the choose to deify.

    I often find that those who push biblical literalism the most are the least likely to have actually read the bible cover to cover.

  2. #34
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Far from it.

    The Pharisees at least were meticulous followers of the law of Moses.

    Most Christians today.......well, those not bound up in legalism that's prevalent in most "holy roller" or Pentacostal churches, are what in Revalation is described as luke-warm Christians.

    If the bible is to be believed, God is disgusted by them.

    The Pharisees served God through their deeds, in keeping closely to the law of Moses, but their hearts were bitter to the "truth" that Jesus supposedly presented.

    Most modern Christians are the opposite. They "get saved" and run around with their noses in the air, not having the faintest clue what their religion is really about, since the only time they crack the bible open is during Sunday School where they get to sit around in a circle and discuss their subjective takes on a verse here or there taken out of context.....
    And later, in the sermon, they get "edified" by the preacher into thinking that God has set them free through his grace, and they go on to do what they used to do, say what they used to say, be how they used to be......except on Sunday, where they get some "food for thought" but no worries!

    Heck, everybody! "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

    "Anybody who doesn't understand that its not about what I do, but my faith in Jesus, just doesn't understand what it takes to be a Christian!" - says the ignorant "christian"
    Exactly. I stand corrected. You should write that book.

  3. #35
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    Also I don't think you were critical of the bible. You were critical of christians who haven't bothered to read the bible that the choose to deify.

    I often find that those who push biblical literalism the most are the least likely to have actually read the bible cover to cover.

    Yep. Actually reading the text....as daunting a task (and grueling) as it may be, is the best course to understanding.

    And through understanding, the flaws become pretty obvious....not the nitpick "errors" that are a cake walk for anyone with half a brain, but the ones that give most apologists a run for their money and most atheistic philosophers their arguments.

  4. #36
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by tomInAustin View Post
    Exactly. I stand corrected. You should write that book.


    Nah...you flatter me. I don't have the patience for a project like that....

    Now, if you met a guy named Doojie who used to post here....now THAT guy could write a book.

  5. #37
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    I quote what I quote to prove my point(s). If you were arguing facets of The Lord of The Rings books vs the movies, would you rely on dream revelations or what was actually on screen and in print?

    I'd personally argue from the text or the TV, not my dreams...
    Don't tell me how to think and what and how to quote. And I don't like insults.

  6. #38
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Yep. Actually reading the text....as daunting a task (and grueling) as it may be, is the best course to understanding.

    And through understanding, the flaws become pretty obvious....not the nitpick "errors" that are a cake walk for anyone with half a brain, but the ones that give most apologists a run for their money and most atheistic philosophers their arguments.
    I made it through once as a teenager. Admittedly I did just ski over the geologies and psalms. However, it was a very interesting read. You know what I learned...... biblical literalists have never actually read the bible.

    I've been lucky when growing up. The pastor at my church felt that the historical context of the biblical stories as important to the stories themselves. Many of the stories particularly those in new testement change drastically when you understand the political and geographic implications within the story.

  7. #39
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I made it through once as a teenager. Admittedly I did just ski over the geologies and psalms. However, it was a very interesting read. You know what I learned...... biblical literalists have never actually read the bible.

    I've been lucky when growing up. The pastor at my church felt that the historical context of the biblical stories as important to the stories themselves. Many of the stories particularly those in new testement change drastically when you understand the political and geographic implications within the story.


    Absolutely.

    Jesus turns out looking more like a grassroots political liberal revolutionist than anything.
    Imagine all the talk of the prophesied messiah finally come to free the Jews from their oppression!

    All the people laying down palm branches and worshiping him as he road by on the donkey, believing that this man was on the verge of ushering in their salvation from the Roman authority one day.....only to see him a shattered and broken man, humbled and humiliated the next.

    What a let down that must have been for the more general population! Is it any small wonder that the disciples themselves scattered and the people, feeling betrayed and gullible, asked for Barabas instead of Jesus?

  8. #40
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Absolutely.

    Jesus turns out looking more like a grassroots political liberal revolutionist than anything.
    Imagine all the talk of the prophesied messiah finally come to free the Jews from their oppression!

    All the people laying down palm branches and worshiping him as he road by on the donkey, believing that this man was on the verge of ushering in their salvation from the Roman authority one day.....only to see him a shattered and broken man, humbled and humiliated the next.

    What a let down that must have been for the more general population! Is it any small wonder that the disciples themselves scattered and the people, feeling betrayed and gullible, asked for Barabas instead of Jesus?
    If you guys were talking history, I wonder if he mentioned that there is no evidence of the Jews ever being enslaved by Pharaoh as they were in Exodus. The historical facts in the New Testament are much more neatly ironed than those of the Old, but it's interesting to see the inaccuracies of interpretation as a reflection of whatever era's assumed knowledge of history was.

  9. #41
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Meh. Honestly i think the catholic church is a scam and was only established to control people.
    Get paid to chat! :) Diskussable

  10. #42
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    The way I look at it, these creationists versus evolution debates are like grown men reasoning with four-year-old autistic kids. Why waste your time debating with deluded people? Creationists are hopeless. Their minds are shut to everything that's contrary to their beliefs.

  11. #43
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by pr0xx1d View Post
    Meh. Honestly i think the catholic church is a scam and was only established to control people.
    Though it is certainly possible to dismiss the church as an institution whose sole purpose is to exercise power and influence, you must take into consideration that can literally be applied toward any institution-- regardless of that particular organization's beliefs.

  12. #44
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by santorebirth View Post
    The way I look at it, these creationists versus evolution debates are like grown men reasoning with four-year-old autistic kids. Why waste your time debating with deluded people? Creationists are hopeless. Their minds are shut to everything that's contrary to their beliefs.
    I'd say the hardliners are hopless. Most others just haven't taken the time to learn about the topic. That being said you rarely convince someone to change there mind in the same thread. However, you do end up raising doubt in the moderates and you make the Hardliners look like dishonest jerks who like to lie to others.

    Personally I treat conversations with creationist as a learning experience. It's an oppertunity for me to learn more about biology since I know whatever the creationists is claiming is a purposful lie or misrepretation and all I have to do is figure it out. Than the only trick is keeping them on task and pointing out just how many times they have used false information in services to this beliefe.

  13. #45
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Indeed, the purpose of a debate is to sway the undecided people to your side. I get that, but debating with a creationist fool is a no-no for me. Even though I don't like the man, I agree with what that bisexual biologist had to say about debating creationists..

    “they’ve won the moment you agree to have a debate at all. Because what they want is the oxygen of respectability.”

  14. #46
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Nye was pretty great honestly. He continued to bring out fact after fact, and even went so far as to challenge the 'facts' brought out in favour of creationism. However, the other guy just spun his wheels, and when challenged on something would get all wishywashy about it.

  15. #47
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    The fact is that Carl is in the very same danger of Hell as any of us, if the bible is actually true.

    The idea that so-called christians like to push - Judge not, lest ye be judges, is their cop out escape.......the "I know you are, but what am I" of christendom.

    Matthew 7 expounds on the idea, and does a wonderful job of defining the very reason most christians are labeled hypocrites. A nice sum up - "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

    In this very same chapter is a statement that not everyone who claims Jesus or identifies as a Christian inherits the kingdom.

    Bummer for most Christians, since most of them are not "about [their] father's business" but their own....
    i'll just INTERJECT if CNSF KNOWS something SPECIAL he is NOT able to COMMUNICATE it thru WORDS over here!? i think i KNOW what his PROBLEM IS.......he dont do DRUGS, he has NEVER escaped his OWN/WORLDLY thoughts!? :errr: : :judges: :spin2:
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  16. #48
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    Re: Creation vs "Science" Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by santorebirth View Post
    Indeed, the purpose of a debate is to sway the undecided people to your side. I get that, but debating with a creationist fool is a no-no for me. Even though I don't like the man, I agree with what that bisexual biologist had to say about debating creationists..

    theyve won the moment you agree to have a debate at all. Because what they want is the oxygen of respectability.
    I agree to a point.

    If I scientist debates a creationists it adds respectablity.

    If a regular person does it doesn't add much of anything.

    Also I think it all a matter of how you debate them. If you debate them claim by claim on only focus on the facts you make it look like equal sides.

    However, if you focus on the fact that the creationist is purposly and knowingly lying than you turn it into a conversation about morality and becomes about one person standing up to a lying jerk.

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