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Thread: Truth?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Truth?

    What is religious truth?

    In the nineteen thirties, a man named Kurt Godel demonstrated that truth is greater than any mechanical, rational process of discovery. His Incompleteness Theorem" states basically that "in any consistent axiomatic formulation of number theory, there exist undecideable propositions".

    Even if the system is axiomatic and consistent, it will still have propositions that are undecideable. Not only that, but people such as Alonzo Church and Gregory Chaitin demonstrated that there are an infinity of undecideable propositions in any axiomatic system of sufficient complexity.

    What does it mean? It means that truth is greater than theoremhood. We can't get "there" from "here".

    It also means that in any pursuit of singular truth, the result will be an infinity of possible truths.

    What does it imply for religious truth? The same thing, since all pursuit of truth must follow the same basic mechanical processes as a search for mathematical truth. The pursuit of God, whether a christian God or any idea of God, will result in an infinity of concepts and ideas about God.

    Truth transcends the human ability to grasp it in one system or neural net.

    Since governments are based on conclusions of human logic, governments can no more represent truth than religions or mathematical systems. Religion and government remain incomplete in the search for truth, and therefore are subject to human examination and interpretation.

    A pursuit of truth in a truly free government will result in the same infinity of governments as we see in religions worldwide.

    The idea of "one nation under God" therefore, is a false statement, since there can no more be one nation under God than one religion under God.

    The only thing to make it one nation under God is the power of a nation to use force to coerce people to believe in the government's idea of God. Since governments represent mechanical, physical processes of organization, however, they cannot represent truth, and any individual can challenge government authority in the name of truth.

    Thanks to Godel, this can be demonstrated mathematically. It can also be shown biblically from Paul's statement in Romans 8:7 which tells us that the carnal(physical, fleshy, bological) mind is enmity against god and cannot be subject to God's laws.

    The result of that statement produces the same effects as Godel's theorem:
    1. No one can claim physical authority as God's representative, since no physical mind can be subject to god's law.
    2. Any attempt to do so results in an infinity of religious ideas about God.

    Since there exists no physical, mechanical, rational process by which all truth can be captured, no religion or government can have authority over humans unless their actions harm another citizen of that government.

    No religion or government can declare or claim absolute authority in truth, meaning that any human is free to challenge the authority of religion or government in any area of truth.

  2. #2
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    Re: Truth?


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Re: Truth?

    what you state may very well be the truth about truth as it applies to the individual!?each must find and prove truth on their own!?

    however since these organized systems of control exist they therefore must have a legitimate function!?namely,the evening out of chances in the game of finding truth!?the moderating of the extremes of circumstances beyond 1's individual control!?

    can an individual find truth!?that can only be answered by the individual who attemps/accepts it!?all organization around the idea of truth merely makes that attemp more palatible!?in a sense it moderates the life and death extremes of such a consideration!?

    organization attemps to create a stable environment in which to consider the idea of truth!?a sanctuary/safe harbor to explore/operate in!?

    the trouble with making statements about organization only pointing to it's inherent flaws is liable to be seen by those who deplore any kind of personal control real or imagined as a legitimate reason to call for the overthrow/disbandment/destruction of same!?

    the only safeguard against the natural inclination to organize becoming a tyranny is from within!?a thankless job to be sure!?but this must be considered a test of the next level of truth!?if an individual finds enough truth to set themselves free their next level is to set others free!?in fact,it should be the natural progression of expression of what truth IS!?

    if absolute truth exists,it only follows that it is the creator/cause of all organization from/out of chaos/randomness!?truth can be simply stated for the laymen as "what works best for all"!?also implying a mindset of all inclusiveness!?a process of adopting and adapting thru osmosis/transformation!?!?

    to seek the truth means to voluntarily submit to those that you feel know it to some degree,at least more than you!?there are no guarantees what you will find or become!?if we think anything strange/offensive about the circumstances we find/put ourselves in it would be wise to consider that it all originates from absolute truth!?

    we must keep in mind that truth for man is simply the best and most natural cause of his behavior!?it is something to know and known for!?not just known about and speculated on!?

    it appears by mathematical proof that all we can do is come close in this presented seemingly solid existence/the only mutually shared known environment for man en mass!?religion describes this as the fall that awaits it's return/transformation back to the realm/kingdom of absolute truth!?and in fact once within those borders,has no name at all!?it is just purely known without doubt!?

    so all we have to point to what the results of living within that kingdom are descriptions and examples we find along the ways of our individual life!?we either take notice or not,give credence or not!?all this drama/ease of life taking place completely within the mind of man!?

    there ultimately is nothing but mind itself!?that,ultimately,having no need for that which we call existence!?a pure condition of complete contentment and joy without the five senses!?call it the sixth sense!?call it godmind!?so.....on with the show!?show us your mind!?: :crazy1: :spin2: hehe!!.....just askn....
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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