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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    14

    Please do not ruin this forum

    I'm rather tired of the spam you scam.commers put out. Everything is a scam to you. This website/forum could be a wonderful resource except for a select number of you (yea, you know who you are) who wouldn't hesitate to call Walmart a scam.

    Look:

    If the company pays its affiliates, ships the products, and doesn't make outlandish non-FTC compliant claims, there is no scam. And when I say OUTLANDISH I mean way out there, the kind of claims that the FTC deal with as opposed to standard marketing hype.

    "Scam cries" should be reserved to those MANY MLM companies that take people's money and run. That DON'T ship products and/or DON'T pay their affiliates. THOSE are the scams.

    Just because a product may not work for you as advertised does not make it a scam. Or at least, if it did, then say hello to 80% of the products in your local grocery store. I can't count how many times I've bought a product only to find that it did not do what I wanted it to (remington products suck FYI). But what doesn't work for one person may work for another. Thus NO SCAM!

    And just because a networker has worked many businesses in his/her career does not make them a scammer. Are you trying to say that you've never had more than 1 job? Are you a scammer because you keep switching jobs? Gimme a break people!


    A number of you people who are addicted to scam.com and crying scam on every new business that pops up are RUINING this website for what it could be good for.

    And frankly, I'm disappointed with the moderators for not keeping it clean. 95% of the stuff I see posted is defamatory libel. I only wish the posters themselves were held legally accountable as opposed to scam.com owners.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    21,904

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Good post.

    Some of us come on here to give a more ''balanced'' view.

    Long live ethical MLM

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Well we know your either Rob Abrams or one of his scumbags dont we

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    14

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by clay walker View Post
    Well we know your either Rob Abrams or one of his scumbags dont we
    No clue why or how you can draw that conclusion, don't even know the name. My first post here was about plexum i think - which in the end didn't turn out to be a scam, but rather just a REALLY bad company.

    What does it matter who I am anyway clay? The point is still valid.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    1,313

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    gungho,

    Sorry Charlie! Current case law suggest that sites such as scam are not liable for the content posted. The person making the statement is. That being said, however, Scam has a responsiblity in my estimation to do some oversight and see that threads don't get out of hand.

    What company do you represent and what is your real beef? You do understand the First Amendment right to free speech???????

    Soapboxmom

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    14

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Soapboxmom View Post
    gungho,

    Sorry Charlie! Current case law suggest that sites such as scam are not liable for the content posted. The person making the statement is. That being said, however, Scam has a responsiblity in my estimation to do some oversight and see that threads don't get out of hand.

    What company do you represent and what is your real beef? You do understand the First Amendment right to free speech???????

    Soapboxmom
    I do not represent any company, just a regular guy whos been taken by a number of real scammers. Been hanging around these forums for few years now. Sadly, these forums are losing their juice, so my real beef is just that.

    And now you people are even calling my post a scam of some sort. as if my stated words are some sort of hidden manipulation. Little over suspicious are we?

    You are precisely the reason I posted this thread.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    21,904

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by gungho View Post
    I do not represent any company, just a regular guy whos been taken by a number of real scammers. Been hanging around these forums for few years now. Sadly, these forums are losing their juice, so my real beef is just that.

    And now you people are even calling my post a scam of some sort. as if my stated words are some sort of hidden manipulation. Little over suspicious are we?

    You are precisely the reason I posted this thread.
    You will have to get used to it... there are some on here who call everything a scam.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    14

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Its the whole cry wolf issue that apparently never got taught to some of these people. This forum has potential to save people like me from getting ripped, but its mostly senseless claims now... a waste of my time. I would normally just walk away from this site never to return, but the fact is, IT COULD BE USEFUL, and I want it to be.

    There's just a number of people totally ruining the potential.:1crysad:

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,904

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by gungho View Post
    Its the whole cry wolf issue that apparently never got taught to some of these people. This forum has potential to save people like me from getting ripped, but its mostly senseless claims now... a waste of my time. I would normally just walk away from this site never to return, but the fact is, IT COULD BE USEFUL, and I want it to be.

    There's just a number of people totally ruining the potential.:1crysad:
    Correct! It might just be useful to be able to tell the difference between a real scam and a real honest business, but they dont want to know. It makes them feel better to call everything a scam.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,484

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Some people in here believe nothing is a scam until it has been shut down by the government. I know there were lots of supporters in here that said Green zap isn't a scam - if it were it would have been shut down...

    Of course it is now shut down.

    Others say cash gifting is prefectly legal. We all know that it is legal to give a friend a gift so obviously pyramid scams that involve Gifting instead of paymenst must be legal. Of course many have been shut down and some have gone to jail.

    Obviously you don't have to be shut down by the government to be a scam. There are many scams that won't be shut down and some that just haven't been shut down yet.

    So on to the products. There are companies like Fuel Freedom that has personal testimonials about how their additive has resulted in a 40% milage increase. Step back a minute and realize their product is 18 years old and after billions of dollars in research - no product has EVER shown those results in a lab....

    Is it a scam to claim results that are just not possible?

    How about the companies like YTB - where over 80% of the revenue comes from recruiting new members? Lets take the company name out of it. If the MLm makes almost all of their money from recruiting, not selling anything.... Is that a scam?

    Lets face it, most MLMs are scams... There are definitly some good ones out there and even some questionable ones - but most are scams...

    I know some of you would prefer if people didn't warn your victims, but I think any reputable company would want their reps to have all the information.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,904

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Lets take the company name out of it. If the MLm makes almost all of their money from recruiting, not selling anything.... Is that a scam?
    If a rep makes ANY money from recruiting then its illegal. All bonuses should come from product sales. So that makes it easy to spot a scam doesn't it?

    Lets face it, most MLMs are scams... There are definitly some good ones out there and even some questionable ones - but most are scams...

    Any figures on this one? Or is it just a guess? I believe there are over 2000 MLM's in existence, so how many is most? Is it 1979 for example?
    What exactly does MOST mean, and what do you have to back up your ''view''?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    14

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
    Some people in here believe nothing is a scam until it has been shut down by the government. I know there were lots of supporters in here that said Green zap isn't a scam - if it were it would have been shut down...

    Of course it is now shut down.

    Others say cash gifting is prefectly legal. We all know that it is legal to give a friend a gift so obviously pyramid scams that involve Gifting instead of paymenst must be legal. Of course many have been shut down and some have gone to jail.

    Obviously you don't have to be shut down by the government to be a scam. There are many scams that won't be shut down and some that just haven't been shut down yet.

    So on to the products. There are companies like Fuel Freedom that has personal testimonials about how their additive has resulted in a 40% milage increase. Step back a minute and realize their product is 18 years old and after billions of dollars in research - no product has EVER shown those results in a lab....

    Is it a scam to claim results that are just not possible?

    How about the companies like YTB - where over 80% of the revenue comes from recruiting new members? Lets take the company name out of it. If the MLm makes almost all of their money from recruiting, not selling anything.... Is that a scam?

    Lets face it, most MLMs are scams... There are definitly some good ones out there and even some questionable ones - but most are scams...

    I know some of you would prefer if people didn't warn your victims, but I think any reputable company would want their reps to have all the information.

    Thank you for the level-headed response. Its posts like these that are good for this forum.

    Yes, if all your revenue is based on recruiting only, then I would consider that a scam. Because in the end, the majority lose. Thus the definitely of Pyramid Scam.

    I say if when you "buy in" to a company, and the product you get is something you would pay for even without a compensation plan attached, then you are in the safe zone. You should not have to pay to be a distributor/affiliate. However, I can understand paying for marketing services so that you can market your business (duh).

    But these are not just my definitions, they are FTC regulations. You cannot sell distributorships. A good network company is one that focuses on it's product, not how much money you can make by joining.

    I believe the network marketing industry is the future economy. Or at least, I hope so. I'm rather tired of mega-corporations hogging the wealth in the world. Its about time people sell people the stuff people need and want. Spread that wealth amongst the many as opposed to massive corporate entities with capital greed as their driving force.

    However, there ARE a lot of MLM scams out there. Resources like scam.com can be good to help honest every day folk like me determine scam from legit. However, a number of you are ruining it for the rest of us.

    I just was hoping this thread would turn things around... call me an optimist, call me unrealistic, but hey, I'd rather live that way than being an untrusting, suspicious, pessimistic protagonist - as that way of life is not a happy one... not a peaceful one.... and certainly does not lead to abundance.

    Innocent until proven guilty no?
    I'd like to see more RATIONAL posts with defined parameters of what equals a scam.

    Perhaps the moderators will hear my plea and clean out the garbage.
    Last edited by gungho; 10-23-2008 at 01:54 PM. Reason: spelling fix

  13. #13

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by gungho View Post
    I believe the network marketing industry is the future economy. Or at least, I hope so. I'm rather tired of mega-corporations hogging the wealth in the world. Its about time people sell people the stuff people need and want. Spread that wealth amongst the many as opposed to massive corporate entities with capital greed as their driving force.
    interesting statements. First, what makes up corporations? People. Second, you want more of what "corporations" (read: people) have (money)...one could call that greed. Third...you premise your argument on the fact that few make the most in the corporate world while the masses make very little. MLM is no different. Of the millions involved, very few make big money. More people make a wage or salary to live off in the corporate world than the MLM world.

    If you want relatively equal pay across the masses, go with communism. Anything remotely pay-for-performance is always going to see a large group of have-nots and a small group of haves. The people with skills, intelligence and a hard work ethic will bring in far more money. At least that is my opinion.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    14

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
    interesting statements. First, what makes up corporations? People. Second, you want more of what "corporations" (read: people) have (money)...one could call that greed. Third...you premise your argument on the fact that few make the most in the corporate world while the masses make very little. MLM is no different. Of the millions involved, very few make big money. More people make a wage or salary to live off in the corporate world than the MLM world.

    If you want relatively equal pay across the masses, go with communism. Anything remotely pay-for-performance is always going to see a large group of have-nots and a small group of haves. The people with skills, intelligence and a hard work ethic will bring in far more money. At least that is my opinion.

    Well this thread is not supposed to go this way, if you'd want to argue the future economy, that should be done in another thread.

  15. #15

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Hello,

    I am a bit confused. Isn't the name of this site
    'scam.com' - would it not be logical as the name
    suggests - that the main intention of and tone of
    postings would not be favorable to biz opp junkies?

    I have always found it fascinating that folks would post
    supposed legit biz opps on a forum with a name like scam.com
    or that people would come to an apparent anti scam site
    looking for legitimate opportunity.

    I come to sites like these to rule things out - not rule them in ...
    Am I missing something?

    I personally have no problem with legitimate biz opps
    internet or otherwise - hell I am even involved in a few
    but I damn sure wouldn't 'advertise' them here or seek out
    others here but then again maybe I am missing something ..

    Perhaps there are dual purposes for this site/ forum.

    Personally I think one of the greatest things here is those
    sexy google ads - I love how they are strategically placed ..

    Just a few thoughts really. Maybe someone can clarify.

    sheeplewatcher

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    38

    Re: Please do not ruin this forum

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
    Some people in here believe nothing is a scam until it has been shut down by the government. I know there were lots of supporters in here that said Green zap isn't a scam - if it were it would have been shut down...

    Of course it is now shut down.

    Others say cash gifting is prefectly legal. We all know that it is legal to give a friend a gift so obviously pyramid scams that involve Gifting instead of paymenst must be legal. Of course many have been shut down and some have gone to jail.

    Obviously you don't have to be shut down by the government to be a scam. There are many scams that won't be shut down and some that just haven't been shut down yet.

    So on to the products. There are companies like Fuel Freedom that has personal testimonials about how their additive has resulted in a 40% milage increase. Step back a minute and realize their product is 18 years old and after billions of dollars in research - no product has EVER shown those results in a lab....

    Is it a scam to claim results that are just not possible?

    How about the companies like YTB - where over 80% of the revenue comes from recruiting new members? Lets take the company name out of it. If the MLm makes almost all of their money from recruiting, not selling anything.... Is that a scam?

    Lets face it, most MLMs are scams... There are definitly some good ones out there and even some questionable ones - but most are scams...

    I know some of you would prefer if people didn't warn your victims, but I think any reputable company would want their reps to have all the information.
    YTB does not pay you for recruiting, it costs nothing to be a rep. They sell you an online travel store.

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